[Spoilers] Breaking Bad - The whole thing felt kinda shady, y'know, morality-wise?

[Independent George]

What did Walt win?

He got his blood money to his family. He humiliated Gretchen & Elliot. He avenged Hank. He saved Jesse one last time. Heisenberg went out like a gansgster.

What did Walt lose?

The love of his family. Walter White's reputation. His infant daughter. He died alone and unmourned.

Personally, I think the losses outweighed the gains, and I think Walter would agree. His 'wins' are what little he could salvage after it already went to shit. It wasn't worth what it cost him, and he knows it.

[Bronn Stone]

My problem with the ending is that it was just too neat and tidy. EVERYONE whom the audience wanted to die, died. Everyone whom the audience wanted to live, lived. My comment in the last thread was that it was like it was written by a focus group.

I wasn't looking for some absurd Scooby Doo ending with Uncle Jack's crew revealed to be neighbors Carol and Becky wearing rubber masks. But this one was all sweet without the real bitter.

But it seems from this thread that vanilla pudding was what most of the audience wanted. Whereas if I wanted that, I'd watch NCIS or CSI or somesuch treacle.

And anyone who has seen or just read Timon of Athens would agree Shakespeare could have used a bit of nudging now and then.

[7V3N]

My problem with the ending is that it was just too neat and tidy. EVERYONE whom the audience wanted to die, died. Everyone whom the audience wanted to live, lived. My comment in the last thread was that it was like it was written by a focus group.

I wasn't looking for some absurd Scooby Doo ending with Uncle Jack's crew revealed to be neighbors Carol and Becky wearing rubber masks. But this one was all sweet without the real bitter.

But it seems from this thread that vanilla pudding was what most of the audience wanted. Whereas if I wanted that, I'd watch NCIS or CSI or somesuch treacle.

And anyone who has seen or just read Timon of Athens would agree Shakespeare could have used a bit of nudging now and then.

Really? You are trying to compare Breaking Bad to CSI? You may want to rethink that. As other posters have said, there was very little sweet and a whole lot of bitter.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I just don't see how it's too neat and tidy. The logical ending that was built up is what we got. When you think of the end from Walt's perspective, it's the poster child for bittersweet. He set out to get his family in a position of financial security for the rest of their lives, and damn it, he did it.

But it cost him that family. The only person who will come out of this without a monstrous image of Walt is Holly. Yet, she'll never know her father. Walt Jr's world is crushed. Skyler is completely broken. Nothing neat and tidy about it.

[Jabronius Maximus]

My problem with the ending is that it was just too neat and tidy. EVERYONE whom the audience wanted to die, died. Everyone whom the audience wanted to live, lived. My comment in the last thread was that it was like it was written by a focus group.

I wasn't looking for some absurd Scooby Doo ending with Uncle Jack's crew revealed to be neighbors Carol and Becky wearing rubber masks. But this one was all sweet without the real bitter.

But it seems from this thread that vanilla pudding was what most of the audience wanted. Whereas if I wanted that, I'd watch NCIS or CSI or somesuch treacle.

And anyone who has seen or just read Timon of Athens would agree Shakespeare could have used a bit of nudging now and then.

There were 61 episodes of bitterness prior to this, this was just Walt reclaiming what little he could after everything that happened.

This just reinforces my point in another thread that BB is best watched in a binge. On a week by week, year by year basis it can be forgotten just how much has happened to Walt and Jesse.

[Independent George]

My problem with the ending is that it was just too neat and tidy. EVERYONE whom the audience wanted to die, died. Everyone whom the audience wanted to live, lived. My comment in the last thread was that it was like it was written by a focus group.

Only because you're thinking of the finale in isolation; Hank died in "Ozymandias", Andrea died in "Granite State", Brock is left orphaned, Mike died last season. The last two episodes were the fallout from all of that.

I've no problem with the finale wrapping everything up, because that was its entire purpose. "Ozymandias" was the narrative climax where Walt loses everything; this was an epilogue that ties up the loose ends. Both served their respective purposes perfectly.

[The hairy bear]

Hopefully once some time has passed Sky will have a chance to talk to Junior about everything; I don't want Junior to hate Walt forever. At the root of it all, it really was a dying man on borrowed time trying to do what he could. If he had just drifted away from the cancer and left them some mystery money, I don't think anyone would have minded too much.

I don't see what Sky can tell to Junior to prevent that. Walt put risked his family repeatedly only to satisfy his ego, and even resorted to murder, kidnapping, blackmail, child poisoning,... His actions and his lack of care to choose associates (to put it midly) lead to the murder of his uncle.

Many people would despise anoyone who produced drugs, period. It's something the show hasn't focused too much into, but the consumption of meth leads to significant health problems. Rest assured that Walt's product has caused overdoses, violence, disabilities,...

Do you really think that knowing that at the beginning he did it for providing money to the family is going to change Junior's perception at all?

Its really the confrontation with Hank that drove the wedge between everyone, forced everyone to pick sides.

Please, don't blame Hank. Walt's activites had endangered his family before Hank discovered anything: Gus directly threatened to kill Sky, Junior and Holly. The cousins entered at the White's residence with an axe. Any of the drug lords that Walter crossed could have taken reprisals against his family...

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

I'm still digesting it, but part of what makes this final episode strange to me is that, for the first time in a long time, Walt is the good guy. It was very weird to be rooting for him again. Especially after reading interviews with Vince Gilligan where he always talks about how it angers him to see criminals escape justice, I'd assumed the show would finish with some dark and bitter justice for Walt, like in [vague spoiler alert]:

The Shield.

Instead he came to terms with his actions, realised he'd been wrong, admitted it, and tried to correct his mistakes. It's actually, in its way, a happy ending.

(Question: had Walt reached these realisations in New Hampshire? Because it seemed, at the end of the last episode, like his return was motivated by anger and pride.)

I still personally could've done with a slower and more drawn out ending like The Wire, but I suppose this fits in with the breakneck pace of the show. But I did especially like how Walt killed Jack: finally, he's not blinded by money.

Also note that in the end it's Gretchen and Elliot who are giving money to Walt's family. Sure, it's Walt's money, but no one will ever know, and it wouldn't be able to happen without them. So, if he'd just taken that job in season one...

[Bronn Stone]

Really? You are trying to compare Breaking Bad to CSI? You may want to rethink that. As other posters have said, there was very little sweet and a whole lot of bitter.

I am comparing THIS EPISODE of Breaking Bad to CSI. Which is why I consider it such a disservice to the legacy of the show. And yes, I am ONLY discussing FeLiNa - I am fully aware of the leadup and liked the idea that Ozymandius was the end and Granite State and Felina the epilogue, but ultimately reject that as a good artistic choice. I hate the idea of ending a hard show on such a long string of soft notes. (I am NOT Emperor Joseph II, however, who needs a loud bang at the end to know when to clap - but give me some bitter with the sweet - this episode drowned in Stevia).

ETA: I have no problem with the ending of any of the story lines in isolation. It is the sum total that leaves me 'meh'. All too neat. It is why I prefer George RR Martin to David Eddings.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte]

Yeah If he'd taken that job hed probably be stinking rich the legal way! !

[Bridgeburners]

Yes, when you look at Felina alone, it was very neat and tidy. Walt basically did the best he could have possibly done from that point.

Usually when I see that in shows, I find it really sappy. But when you take the whole season 5b into context with the Felina, I would say it becomes completely acceptable. Usually the good shows that have endings that go to shit for the main character use that as a contrast with the last few episodes that seemed to be steering towards everything working out just fine for the main character. In this case, they used this one bittersweet victory to contrast Walter's life going to shit. The last three episodes were all about everything falling apart, and us accepting that Walt will never get some of the things he's been working this entire show towards, and that some things (relationships) are just destroyed permanently. Given that context, I think it was fine for the last episode to be him salvaging what victory he could.

Let's not forget - it's not like the money issue is resolved. In fact I'd say it's very unlikely that the whole Gray Matter + Flynn thing works out like clockwork. Things will probably go wrong there.

Also, I feel like Walter got to redeem himself a lot in 5b. We could never forgive him for some of the past stuff he did (he's like Jamie from aSoIaF in that way), but he felt a lot more human and sympathetic than he did in the last three seasons. In 4 and 5a he basically seemed completely lost in his gangster mode (this felt especially true when he was talking to Jesse about how the business is "all I have left"). In this one, he came to terms with what he has done, and spent a lot of time trying to make things right. (eg. the phone call at the end of Ozymandias.)

[Independent George]

I need to do a re-watch at some point, but throughout the entire series, Walt was given numerous ways out. Just off the top of my head:

1. He could have swallowed his pride and accepted the job at Grey Matter

2. He could have quit after Tuco died.

3. He could have continued cooking under Gus' protection (though it meant accepting Jesse's death)

4. He could have cashed out with the methylamine sale.

[Mexal]

I am comparing THIS EPISODE of Breaking Bad to CSI. Which is why I consider it such a disservice to the legacy of the show. And yes, I am ONLY discussing FeLiNa - I am fully aware of the leadup and liked the idea that Ozymandius was the end and Granite State and Felina the epilogue, but ultimately reject that as a good artistic choice. I hate the ideo of ending a hard show on such a long string of soft notes. (I am NOT Emperor Joseph II, however, who needs a loud bang at the end to know when to clap - but give me some bitter with the sweet - this episode drowned in Stevia).

I couldn't disagree more. It brought closure to Walt's story, exactly what should happen in a series finale. I don't really know what else you really wanted. All of the bitter happened these past few episodes. Did we really need more bitterness?

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte]

I need to do a re-watch at some point, but throughout the entire series, Walt was given numerous ways out. Just off the top of my head:

1. He could have swallowed his pride and accepted the job at Grey Matter

2. He could have quit after Tuco died.

3. He could have continued cooking under Gus' protection (though it meant accepting Jesse's death)

4. He could have cashed out with the methylamine sale

.

5.He could have destroyed GB's poetry book instead of storing it in his fucking bathroom.

[Morpheus]

I need to do a re-watch at some point, but throughout the entire series, Walt was given numerous ways out. Just off the top of my head:

1. He could have swallowed his pride and accepted the job at Grey Matter

2. He could have quit after Tuco died.

3. He could have continued cooking under Gus' protection (though it meant accepting Jesse's death)

4. He could have cashed out with the methylamine sale.

He also could have ratted on Gus and probably gotten a sweet deal at any point up until he actually blew him up. Hank would still have hated him, but the DEA would probably have been more than willing to give Heisenberg a slap on the wrist to take out an international player like Gus

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Yes, when you look at Felina alone, it was very neat and tidy. Walt basically did the best he could have possibly done from that point.

Usually when I see that in shows, I find it really sappy. But when you take the whole season 5b into context with the Felina, I would say it becomes completely acceptable. Usually the good shows that have endings that go to shit for the main character use that as a contrast with the last few episodes that seemed to be steering towards everything working out just fine for the main character. In this case, they used this one bittersweet victory to contrast Walter's life going to shit. The last three episodes were all about everything falling apart, and us accepting that Walt will never get some of the things he's been working this entire show towards, and that some things (relationships) are just destroyed permanently. Given that context, I think it was fine for the last episode to be him salvaging what victory he could.

Let's not forget - it's not like the money issue is resolved. In fact I'd say it's very unlikely that the whole Gray Matter + Flynn thing works out like clockwork. Things will probably go wrong there.

Also, I feel like Walter got to redeem himself a lot in 5b. We could never forgive him for some of the past stuff he did (he's like Jamie from aSoIaF in that way), but he felt a lot more human and sympathetic than he did in the last three seasons. In 4 and 5a he basically seemed completely lost in his gangster mode (this felt especially true when he was talking to Jesse about how the business is "all I have left"). In this one, he came to terms with what he has done, and spent a lot of time trying to make things right. (eg. the phone call at the end of Ozymandias.)

I agree with you for the most part and I could see how there might be problems with Grey Matter getting the money to Walt's family, but I think it works out. Ultimately, you can't associate them with his criminal activities. If they stick with the story he gave them, there won't be a problem.

[Bridgeburners]

I need to do a re-watch at some point, but throughout the entire series, Walt was given numerous ways out. Just off the top of my head:

1. He could have swallowed his pride and accepted the job at Grey Matter

2. He could have quit after Tuco died.

3. He could have continued cooking under Gus' protection (though it meant accepting Jesse's death)

4. He could have cashed out with the methylamine sale.

One of the biggest ones for me is that he could have quit after the initial 1.2M dollar sale to Gus. In fact he did quit, and tried to repair his relationship with Skyler. But then Gus brought him back in with his "a man must provide whether or not he's hated" speech, which I thought was really weak of Walt.

5.He could have destroyed GB's poetry book instead of storing it in his fucking bathroom.

Okay, but that's really just a case of "hindsight is 20/20". That's very different from Walt saying "I best quit while I'm ahead, the more I do this the more likely I am to make things worse".

[Independent George]

He also could have ratted on Gus and probably gotten a sweet deal at any point up until he actually blew him up. Hank would still have hated him, but the DEA would probably have been more than willing to give Heisenberg a slap on the wrist to take out an international player like Gus

Good call; I'd gotten so wrapped up with Heisenberg that I forgot this was an option. And yes, of course you're right. That was always on the table, and it was (as always) pride that didn't let him see it. It would have meant owning up to his mistakes to protect Skylar and the family.

[Morpheus]

Can Jesse really have a happy life after all of that?
Everyone says he will reunite with Brock, but unles he kidnaps him that is unlikely, a former addict, most likely wanted for questioning by the DEA if he isn't presumed dead, with no money or prospects won't be able to legally adopt a kid.

[Mark Antony]

Yeah I never see Jesse and Brock re-uniting. He has a grandma he probably lives with.