[Spoilers] Breaking Bad - The whole thing felt kinda shady, y'know, morality-wise?

[Winterfell is Burning]

He said, "You want your money back, right? You wanna know where it is? You pull that trigger you'll never---"

Edit: or what Bridgeburners said, except not in those exact words.

Thanks to the both of you.

[Gronzag]

Am i the only one who found Lydia attractive? I hate that she had to die!

[Bridgeburners]

I don't know that this is stupid if you separate TV consequences from real life consequences. Having Walt's family, especially Walt Jr., die after all the times of using them as an excuse for why he wouldn't walk away from cooking or humbly take help or other chances to get out that he was offered would have also been a fitting ending. (Also, a lot of people predicted Jr. would die and people like rooting for their own predictions).

While I'm very satisfied that Walt's last interaction was with Jesse, I think it also could have been a good ending for him to have ended up being able to leave his family with nothing, about to die in humiliation in prison, but having Skyler and Jr. willing to spend their time with him at the end (after learning that he didn't directly murder Hank), not with perfect love, respect and forgiveness, but willing to be together as a family after losing everything regardless.

You wouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt like this if you actually read the posts.

[keelhaul]

Getting killed by a stray bullet (albeit from his own weapon) saving Jesse's life was a little too heroic a death for a guy like him.

Why? I think some people are trying to see Walt as the completely evil big bad boss here. (I think it's better than to actually root for him, but still he isn't that guy.)

Walt has become a very dark grey person, but he is no coward and he is not absolutely evil. He is probably the most complex character ever portrayed on screen. He is perfectly capable of saving Jessie's life. Remember when he hit the two dealers with his car? He did that for Jesse. It was sort of heroic (it was also a very tragic moment), it possibly meant that he will lose everything (and it led to that absolutely crazy season four). Remember that this and the Jane scene were the two defining moments of Walt's character.

I think the way to get Walt is through season one. We get to see his prideful ego right from start but we can also see that he is a kind, loving person. Or at least he seems like someone. Problem is, he is an extremely talented man with no outlet, a bruised ego (I don't think it's rooted in Gray Matter, I think it's rooted in inferiority complex) and let's be honest, he is mistreated and looked down upon by the society (yeah he screwed up big time with Gray Matter but he still lead a completely respectable life until the meth business began). This is kind of the recipe for the birth of a Heisenberg figure.

The other main ingredient is his delusional view of himself and a kind of self-aggrandizing, narcissistic flavour to his thinking. He needs to be valued, he needs to be THE GENIUS, THE SCIENTIST, etc. but once he is not valued (or at least not considered the best ever), he goes absolutely crazy wanting to prove it by any means. The Schwartz's unwillingly set him on fire with the job offer which really was somewhat condescending if you think about it - especially how the party turned out to be.

Then there is his extremely annoying ability to rationalize anything, any bad decision and frame it as a good one, or a necessary one thus washing his hands.

But the fact is, and we get these hints from episodes like 'Fly' (Fly more than just gives hints, it is one of the episodes to watch carefully if you are interested in Walt), Walt is a much deeper character than that. Although his smart mind can wash his hands as much as it wants, he feels terrible guilt about Jane, he knows he is a bad person and admits it from time to time. The difference is, and I think that is why this finale is a fantastic, beautiful ending, is when we see Walt finally deconstruct his last line of defense: he admits that he is a bad person for selfish reasons. Not because 'it was necessary', or because 'he did it for the family', simply because he needed it.

By the way, I think, partly, in a dark, twisted manner, he really cared about his family and Jesse. It's plainly out there. The problem is that the kind of care he gives is not necessarily the kind of care they need.

[Bronn Stone]

A clear way out for Walt would have been following the advice Marie gave him in the Mexican restaurant. If he had killed himself right then he would also had gone his own way, but Hank and Andrea would be alive, Junior still love is father, his family would have the money and Todd would be having his happy honeymoon with Lydia.

The Federal Government has broad power to seize assets believed to be associated with the drug trade and absurdly low burdens of proof. No way does the family keep the money once Walt is a suspect. And the more the DEA finds, the more they look for it and nothing Saul Goodman did will survive their close scrutiny.

[The hairy bear]

The Federal Government has broad power to seize assets believed to be associated with the drug trade and absurdly low burdens of proof. No way does the family keep the money once Walt is a suspect. And the more the DEA finds, the more they look for it and nothing Saul Goodman did will survive their close scrutiny.

No one at the DEA but Hank suspected Walt at that time. Do you think that if Walt had committed suicide Hank would had reported his discoveries? I don't think so. His personal vendetta was against Heisenberg, he thought Skylar was a victim, he loves his nephews, and he would had lost his job.

[Jabronius Maximus]

Somebody posted a link to that box set...I had a look at it, and apparently there is a THREE MINUTE ALTERNATE ENDING. My best bet is that Walt gets stopped in his attempt to grab the keys, and all hell breaks loose. Or maybe the Nazis kill Walt, take his keys to open the car, and then there they go.

[red snow]

I understand the sentiment, I really do. But Walt in no way, shape, or form had closure with Junior. He died knowing Junior thought he was a monster. That, to me, is the exact opposite of everything Walt had wanted. Remember when he was beaten up, and Junior was taking care of him, and Walt said, "I don't want you to remember me like this?" Well...he remembers him in a much, much worse light.

I agree. This is where Walt lost out the most and he knew it. Maybe Skylar would defend him over Hank's death but his son still hated him and his last words to him were "why don't you just die". Probably a huge factor in why he seemed determined to die in the final moments.

The only thing for me was that if he really wanted to ensure Skylar was safe shouldn't he have turned himself in and taken the blame for everything? Or is the fact he is confirmed by the police as dead enough for them to just pin everything on him (I'd assume they'd still want a trial putting skylar in their cross-hairs).

As to the Saul thing. I just assumed Saul may find a way to dig himself out of it all. Was there any way to prove he was directly involved in any of Walt's dealings? He could claim he was laying low to avoid Walt. As for him being mentally damaged by the whole thing - other than taking a beating off Jesse and being threatened by Walt all the time - did anything happen that was outside his pretty open moral code?

I'm not entirely certain how the Saul show will work - I think it has to be completely different from the parent show to avoid too many comparisons.

[Relic]

Somebody posted a link to that box set...I had a look at it, and apparently there is a THREE MINUTE ALTERNATE ENDING. My best bet is that Walt gets stopped in his attempt to grab the keys, and all hell breaks loose. Or maybe the Nazis kill Walt, take his keys to open the car, and then there they go.

Highly doubt it's anything that drastic. Last three minutes is just Jesse/Walt and then Walt in the meth lab.

[The Iceman of the North]

As the finale of Breaking Bad draws near, we take a look back at the series that highlighted the heavy toll Barack Obama's policies have taken on entrepreneurs like Walter White.

[Grey Words]

I find it interesting that, though he may not have planned on being hit by his own bullets, in the spirit of his desire to control everything Walt was able to essentially beat cancer by dying in a manner of his own creation.

I've seen it mentioned that Walt Junior didn't get closure in that final episode, but it seems to me that WJr got closure when he got to tell his father off over the phone, venting his true feelings and then walking away and not giving his dad a chance to BS him any more. In the final episode, Walt watching Junior from a distance was a beautiful acknowledgement that only time and WJ's own decisions could ever influence his perception of his father as a monster.

[Bridgeburners]

I totally agree with Keelhaul's post. I think the "Walt is pure bad, period" stance is just a quick cop-out to make you look good. It's definitely better than the "Walt is awesome, say my name" stance, but it's still an unfair oversimplified assessment.

By the way, did anyone find it really funny when Jack said "50-50 partners"? He had no reason to know that that was a thing, it was just a pure funny coincidence/nod.

[Chun-Li]

Somebody posted a link to that box set...I had a look at it, and apparently there is a THREE MINUTE ALTERNATE ENDING. My best bet is that Walt gets stopped in his attempt to grab the keys, and all hell breaks loose. Or maybe the Nazis kill Walt, take his keys to open the car, and then there they go.

I read that it's an alternate ending to the series' last shot, so it probably has to do with Walt's death in the meth lab.

[drawkcabi]

I'm not entirely certain how the Saul show will work - I think it has to be completely different from the parent show to avoid too many comparisons.

I mentioned this before, but I think it has to be an anthology series. Each week we see different clients with different problems and how they resolve them, through or with the use of Saul who is the only component/character that connects all these stories together.

[Rockroi]

What did Walt win?

He got his blood money to his family. He humiliated Gretchen & Elliot. He avenged Hank. He saved Jesse one last time. Heisenberg went out like a gansgster.

Well, he also went out on his own terms, something he stated to Jesse he wanted from the start; he had an ultimately honest relationship with his wife, something they lacked for some time.

However, the largest thing Walt gained was his pride; something he had leaked away for the previous 18 years or so. He made something that will- if Gretchen and Elliot are silly enough to believe that he has omnipresent hit men after them - feed, clothe and care for his family well-after he is gone. I think its INSANELY far-fetched to think that Elliot and Gretchen will give the money to Junior, but no more far-fetched than a man dying of cancer going cross country to kill WS with M-60 machine gun in his trunk.

What did Walt lose?

The love of his family. Walter White's reputation. His infant daughter. He died alone and unmourned.

I think he died very much mourned, especially by Skyler who ultimately empathized a great deal with Walt. I think he lost junior and that was hard, but the reality is that in time, there is a good chance Walt Jr will come to appreciate what his father did. Or not. BUt there is a chance.

Personally, I think the losses outweighed the gains, and I think Walter would agree. His 'wins' are what little he could salvage after it already went to shit. It wasn't worth what it cost him, and he knows it.

I think this is a classic "agree to disagree"; I think there was a reason Walt died with a smile on his face. He made right what years of living in desperation made wrong. He got $9 Mil to his family; he destroyed everyone who EVER crossed him. Sure, there will be questions, but he made something work that was not going to work.

I think that given the events that brought them all to this place, Walt clearly won. But not without a cost.

[Joyful Union]

My absolute favorite moment of the finale was the flashback scene where Jesse is making that box for wood shop. That was a great callback.

[Martell Spy]

It's not as neat as Walter Jr. hating Walt, nor Skylar. The Walt Jr. part was never shown on the show like the Skylar part. RJ Mitte was on Talking Bad and said there was still love for Walt in him. Anna Gunn said similar about Skyler and this was actually shown on the show at times, with how she went back and forth. And of course Skyler will tell Walt Jr. that Walt didn't kill Hank. There's a good chance he'll realize where the money came from too, and even if he refuses it, it is less likely that he'll keep it from Holly.

Walt pretty much got what he wanted in many aspects, but only at this current point in the series. He's just salvaging. There's a scene in Season 2 where he talks about the "perfect time to die" and how you want your loved ones to actually miss you. His original plan was to make a fairly modest amount of cash for his family and then die at the perfect moment. That plan failed because he survived the cancer temporarily. And he lived long enough for his family to start partially hating him and being put into danger by him.

And of course the other crucial time things failed for him was Hank's death and his family refusing to run off with him.

1. He got to totally dominate the Schwartzes. It played out just like his fantasies, with him forcing the point that not a single cent of their money would go to his family.

2. He killed all his remaining enemies in the way he likes best, by outwitting them.

3. He had that time when he piled up the money unhindered and cooking meth. It's very much like an obsessive gambler or gamer. It's hard to explain if you've never had a period of your life like that, but a non chemical addiction like that can be thrilling, even as it destroys your life around you,

4. Heisenburg made one final great escape. He escaped cancer and the police all at once in the only way possible. I think that was the point of that scene and it was brilliantly done. The police streaming in too late was great.

Anyway, fantastic episode and series ending. And I'm not lukewarm "satisfied." This is the best series ending I've ever seen. It even tops the Shield, which was my previous favorite ending. And these last 3 episodes in a row have been some of the best of the series, which is something even some of the best shows ever failed at. I only wish I knew what happened with Jesse, but I understand how it had to end there as this is Walt's tale.

[Jabronius Maximus]

This GIF is pure gold. Hector should've helped out too...DING DING BOOM!

[Littlefingers In The Air]

This GIF is pure gold. Hector should've helped out too...DING DING BOOM!

Whoever made this gif a thing is blessed by God.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

This GIF is pure gold. Hector should've helped out too...DING DING BOOM!

That made my day. :lol: