[Spoilers] Breaking Bad - The whole thing felt kinda shady, y'know, morality-wise?

[Jabronius Maximus]

Re: Scrubs - wouldn't you have to get through the awful final season(s) to get to the finale?

There was no season 9 as far as I can recall, and because it was an after school/uni regular for me I saw it through to the end.

[KalibakCruel]

Scrubs also had a pretty cool finale, even if the show is several hundred tiers below the shows being mentioned here.

SCRUBS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EXIST EVER!

Edit: Except season 9 that was never actually made and I never watched because it would be so stupid for that to exist.

[KalibakCruel]

Just wanna say I dislike when people try to use the argument of, "How did you want it to end?" or "How would you change it?". It's a ridiculous qualifier. It's like going to a restaurant, not liking the meal, and then having a random patron come up and say, "But what exactly didn't you like about the meal? What would you change to make the meal better?". The audience doesn't have the burden of saying what they'd like better. They pay for the entertainment, it's the entertainer who's paid to satisfy. Period.

I'm not trying to apply this to BB by the way, since even though I was somewhat disappointed by the ending, I'd never accuse BB of shorthanding me. The show is fucking phenomenal. It's my second favorite after The Sopranos. But the argument I described comes up in the discussion of many types of media and I've always disliked it, and you only see it come up when there's a group of people trying to defend something they like from a vocal (and often justified) group of people that don't. It's like a last resort argument.

I would say it's more like going into a Japanese restaurant and getting mad when there's no mexican salsa.

Yeah, death or imprisonment are the logical conclusion, sure... but nobody who's complaining about the ending is disputing that. What doesn't feel right is Walt neatly visiting vengeance or reparation on every loose end and having everything work out perfectly. He could've gotten caught anytime before Albuquerque, or gotten burned down by the Nazis immediately, and it would've still satisfied "death or imprisonment" while not feeling quite so fantastical.

Would've been a hell of a lot more depressing, though.

A lot of things could have happened. If you want to get specific, Walt could have/should have died a thousand times before the finale. Hank could have gone straight to the DEA, Jesse could have been murdered by Gus, hell, Walt could have been murdered by Gus.

My point is that it feels neat and tidy because we already knew this was going to happen. Because it had to happen. Because it was following it's logical conclusion. We knew in advance Walt bought a huge gun. We knew he was alone and that he visited the cleaner. What we didn't know was what was going to happen in Ozymandias for example, which as I've said before, is the real "finale" of Breaking Bad. This episode is Walts story ending, and it sort of had to be neat. We already knew he had a big gun and was apart from his family, so we knew that had to be visited, both his family AND the vengeance.

That's what I mean when i say it was just following it's logical conclusion. It tied up loose ends, left no questions, and it ended Walts story.

[Bronn Stone]

I would say it's more like going into a Japanese restaurant and getting mad when there's no mexican salsa.

That's what I mean when i say it was just following it's logical conclusion. It tied up loose ends, left no questions, and it ended Walts story.

Whereas I would assert it was a New Mexico restaurant that pulled both the red and green sauces just before the final course. Breaking Bad was never about neat and tidy. It was a chaotic ride all along with twists and turns and bad things happening to good people and good happening to bad. Then suddenly in the finale we get a checklist where everyone the masses wanted to die, died and everyone the masses wanted to live, lived.

To me that is a damned ILLOGICAL conclusion. Life is not that tidy.

Thing is that I think they were really close and if they'd balanced the last three episodes better and moved a few of the events from Ozymandias to Felina, the overall experience would be satisfying.

Though throughout this thread I've done my share (and maybe more) of griping, I think in general it was not a BAD episode. Just not Breaking Bad good.

[KalibakCruel]

Whereas I would assert it was a New Mexico restaurant that pulled both the red and green sauces just before the final course. Breaking Bad was never about neat and tidy. It was a chaotic ride all along with twists and turns and bad things happening to good people and good happening to bad. Then suddenly in the finale we get a checklist where everyone the masses wanted to die, died and everyone the masses wanted to live, lived.

To me that is a damned ILLOGICAL conclusion. Life is not that tidy.

Thing is that I think they were really close and if they'd balanced the last three episodes better and moved a few of the events from Ozymandias to Felina, the overall experience would be satisfying.

Though throughout this thread I've done my share (and maybe more) of griping, I think in general it was not a BAD episode. Just not Breaking Bad good.

Ozymandias was the untidyness, this was the end of Walts story where loose ends needed to be tied and where HIS individual narrative finally ended.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind people not liking it, or having their issues, I'm just stating what I think and how I view it. Things that needed to be done were done. It was Walt's ending and a predictable ending was good (especially since again, we all KNEW this was going to happen a few episodes ago). If we didn't have the flash forwards, it wouldn't have felt as tidy. I mean it feels tidy because we know it's going to happen, and then it does. But it's not anymore tidy than the way Gus dies, somehow not noticing the bomb, or them robbing the train, and Meth Damon jumping off last second and NO ONE seeing him.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I respectfully disagree about the episode not being Breaking Bad good. Every loose end was tied up in a very Breaking Bad sort of way. Walt's lying and scheming saw to it that his family will get his money. Science killed the White Supremacists. You think to yourself that Walt is going to try one last time to get Skyler to see that he did it all for family, only for him to tell the truth.

Jesse's fate is ambiguous, sure, but our last image of the character will be one where he, in one way or another, was victorious. The White family is free from Walt and can finally begin to rebuild their lives. Marie will get the closure of knowing that for all Walt's faults, and they are plenty, he did not murder Hank and be did what he could to give some finality to that situation via the burial coordinates. It all makes sense within the realm of that world. Your disbelief doesn't need to be stretched too much.

[Aemon Stark]

I think regarding "Ozymandias" as the "explosive" finale makes a lot of sense. The beauty of this show is that it was allowed a proper denouement with resolution of Walt's story from his perspective. We don't know that Lydia will definitely die. We have no idea where Jesse will go next or what he'll do. The fate of Skyler and the kids remains uncertain.

The only thing "tidy" about this episode was Walt's being able to set his affairs in order and deliver the sort of justice and finality he needed to die in peace. He wanted to live and die on his own terms and he did. I guess that's "tidy", but it also makes for satisfying storytelling.

I don't think anything that happened had anything to do with what the "masses" wanted, otherwise Skyler and poor Walt Jr would have died and Jesse and Walt would have had a cliched "It's on, bitch!" final fight like the end of so many badly written movies (see, for example, the interminable Khan/Spock fight at the end of Into Darkness).

But the story's denouement is what really makes it for me. Many long running series end overly abruptly or without proper resolution. I'm also not sure what else could have been done. A Sopranos-esque ambiguity mess?

[Jabronius Maximus]

People are also forgetting one very big Breaking Bad feature that was in this episode. Walt's plans, while well thought out and brilliantly executed, NEVER work out flawlessly. There is always a little something that comes back to bite Walt, forcing him to readjust and make new plans. In Felina, he gets hit by a stray bullet from his own gun, causing a weird suicide. Judging by what he said to Skyler and how quickly the cops arrived, it's not a stretch to say his plan was to turn himself in once he accomplished his task. Aside from the stray bullet, there's a few giant loose ends involving the fates of Jesse and Walt's family (as Aemon Stark said). So Walt's grand plan could end up being for naught if Skyler is turned in, Jesse dies/is arrested, and Jr never gets the money. All of that is possible.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Also, on the subject of great finales, let's not neglect to mention Newhart.

[Aemon Stark]

I kinda wish Walt had started running a B&B in Vermont, but then "Green Mountain State" doesn't have quite th same ring to it as "Live Free or Die" or "Granite State".

[The Lord's Kiss]

One of my favorite parts was how they kept the color aspect intact, not with the blue and green and beige, but with the orange that represented law and order, and which seemed to be the DEA's recommended wardrobe. I specifically liked how in the last two episodes, Walt Jr. is shown first wearing an orange jacket, and then finally with an orange backpack. It's almost like he is trying to cloak himself and disassociate himself entirely from his father in "Granite State," and then by "Felina," it seems that he is the one to shoulder the burden, so to speak. He will have to set the example for right and wrong for Holly, and I know he still loves his father but his Uncle Hank is the one whose values he truly embraced. I know a lot of people don't like Walt Jr., but I am really fascinated by the character. I mean, he'd probably legally change his first name to Flynn after all of this, how could he ever go back to being called Walter?

[Martell Spy]

So Walt's grand plan could end up being for naught if Skyler is turned in, Jesse dies/is arrested, and Jr never gets the money. All of that is possible.

Gilligan was quite clear in an interview that the money plan worked. He was more ambiguous about Jesse's fate. He pretty much said that the viewer can picture their own fate for Jesse. He said that he pictures him in Alaska, living a quiet life and enjoying nature.

[Martell Spy]

One of my favorite parts was how they kept the color aspect intact, not with the blue and green and beige, but with the orange that represented law and order, and which seemed to be the DEA's recommended wardrobe. I specifically liked how in the last two episodes, Walt Jr. is shown first wearing an orange jacket, and then finally with an orange backpack. It's almost like he is trying to cloak himself and disassociate himself entirely from his father in "Granite State," and then by "Felina," it seems that he is the one to shoulder the burden, so to speak. He will have to set the example for right and wrong for Holly, and I know he still loves his father but his Uncle Hank is the one whose values he truly embraced. I know a lot of people don't like Walt Jr., but I am really fascinated by the character. I mean, he'd probably legally change his first name to Flynn after all of this, how could he ever go back to being called Walter?

That reminds me. On the subject of color. Any idea why Hank and Gomez were wearing matching green and brown right before their deaths? I noticed because the camera seemed to be making such a big deal of their clothes.

I can't believe there's anyone that hates Walt Jr. That's like hating Badger!

[DaveSumm]

Regarding Jesse: I'd never thought of it being that bad if he got caught because he'd already turned himself in to Hank. But I suppose if Walt's dead then there's no value to the information that would've bought him some leniency? Is there any copies of his confession? Did the tape include his killing of Gale? What sort of sentence would he be looking at if he was caught, assuming they didn't know about Gale?

[Clockwork of House Orange]

Can't believe nobody brought this up yet... Why did Walt leave his watch on the pay phone at the gas station? WHY? :D

[Nictarion]

Can't believe nobody brought this up yet... Why did Walt leave his watch on the pay phone at the gas station? WHY? :D

Vince Gilligan explained it on Talking Bad. It was a continuity issue, the flash foward showed him not wearing it.

[The hairy bear]

Regarding Jesse: I'd never thought of it being that bad if he got caught because he'd already turned himself in to Hank. But I suppose if Walt's dead then there's no value to the information that would've bought him some leniency? Is there any copies of his confession? Did the tape include his killing of Gale? What sort of sentence would he be looking at if he was caught, assuming they didn't know about Gale?

There are two questions that haven't been answered: was Marie present during Jessie's confession? Did the nazis kept the tape they stole? If the answer to both is no, I can't see how anyone could know that Jessie killed Gale. But I don't see it likely. Marie would be interested in hearing everything about Walter, and the nazis have no reason to destroy the tape.

[SerMixalot]

As I read all the comments I am swayed back and forth on the finale. As I think about it I guess my feelings about the finale are tied to how much I hated Walt by the end and how I hated to see him get any redemption or help those he wronged. As good as it was for the victims (Marie, Jesse, Skyler) I hate that Walt was able to right his own wrongs so that he could feel better about himself. I didn't want him to go out feeling like the master criminal who even in the end got over on everyone else.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Great show, loved every moment of it. Is it wrong that I went for Walt from day 1 and never faltered? No matter how bad it got, I always figured he was trying to do the right thing. Plus for a guy who did it all "for himself" because he liked it, he sure did a lot for those he loved.

Heisenberg isn't dead either. They alluded to him being dead, but he's not. I saw him bleeding and laying there, but that nazi guy he shot was in worse shape and expected to live. Hank got hurt worse by the twins and lived.

I'm pretty sure I saw Heisenberg pumping gas at the 711 last night.

Also I'd like to say his moment of "truth" where he told Skylar he did it for himself was just a lie. He always did it for his family. Last night Walt finally realized Skylar would never buy that from him, so he took some truths (good at it, liked it) and turned those into selfish reasons because that would placate her.

[Morpheus]

Walt definitely did it for selfish reason. I think he always cared about his family but was to arrogant to acknowledge that he was putting them in real danger, but you need only refer to that "I'm in the empire business..." scene to know that it was beyond family and into stroking his ego. Like Jesse told him, if he sold out to Declan he would still have had way more money than he ever dreamed of making at the start of this thing, but Walt was on a power trip.