Sex and Entitlement

[Lady Asha]

I'd really like some male opinions on this topic.

In my gender studies class, we were talking about sex and entitlement. How so called "nice guys" rage that the women they have sexual designs on are "shallow bitches" for not having sex with them even though the guys were, you know, nice.

A lot of the guys were all like, "Well, women shouldn't judge because they can have sex whenever they want. They don't understand what it's like to be totally sexually invisible."

And you're right. I've had to fear that somebody would rape me every day since 11 every time I'm alone or walking down a dark street. Isn't that great for me? 55 year old men in pick up trucks driving down the interstate would do me! I'm so proud. :stillsick:

This whole "women can get sex whenever they want, female sexual thirst cannot be compared to male sexual thirst" seems to be a common gender assumption.

So...myth or fact?

A) Can women really get sex whenever they want?

B) Is it wrong to mock the "nice guys" because we, as women, enjoy the privilege of having unlimited access to sex and can't possibly understand what it's like to be totally un-doable?

C) When people say, women can get sex anytime are they only thinking of the women who they *themselves* would have sex with?

D) Have you ever considered the considerable risk/reward gap between male and female casual sex?

Discuss, people. I have a paper to write. :cool4:

[Larry of the Lawn]

a) I guess, as much as men can . which is to say, no, they can't. I mean, both sexes can probably have sex pretty easily, you just might have to lower your standards if you're on a strict timeline?

b) no, these 'nice guys' are just some combination lazy, immature, whiny, or naive guys. if they were actually 'nice' they wouldn't be blaming their lack of sex on 'shallow bitches'.

c) yes, most times i've heard a man say that he's thinking specifically of women he'd like to bang.

d) yes

[thecryptile]

A) Can women really get sex whenever they want?

Yes, women can get sex whenever they want- and so can men. The thing is you might have to lower your standards- or pay for it.

B) Is it wrong to mock the "nice guys" because we, as women, enjoy the privilege of having unlimited access to sex and can't possibly understand what it's like to be totally un-doable?

The "nice guys" you describe in the OP are, in fact, douchebags. Mock away. Sentiments in the vein of: "Boo hoo nobody wants to have sex with me,*sniff* and I'm such a nice guy- why don't these shallow bitches like me- waaaah!" deserve nothing but ridicule.

Real nice guys apply common courtesy and human decency in their daily interactions without believing it's some quid pro quo for sex.

C) When people say, women can get sex anytime are they only thinking of the women who they *themselves* would have sex with?

Probably, but most straight men would have sex with any normal, healthy woman in a certain age range (varies from man to man, but 18-80 isn't really that far off the mark).

D) Have you ever considered the considerable risk/reward gap between male and female casual sex?

Yes. I sure have- Human reproduction in 5 minutes vs. Human reproduction in 9 months. The risks and rewards are very different, from a sociobiological perspective men are hardwired to spread their genes through the population, women are hardwired to seek the most fit mate.

[straits]

I'd really like some male opinions on this topic.

In my gender studies class, we were talking about sex and entitlement. How so called "nice guys" rage that the women they have sexual designs on are "shallow bitches" for not having sex with them even though the guys were, you know, nice.

How much of this apparent raging happens in personal encounters, though? I'm under the impression that the "nice guys" raging was confined to an internet soapbox.

A lot of the guys were all like, "Well, women shouldn't judge because they can have sex whenever they want. They don't understand what it's like to be totally sexually invisible."

And you're right. I've had to fear that somebody would rape me every day since 11 every time I'm alone or walking down a dark street. Isn't that great for me? 55 year old men in pick up trucks driving down the interstate would do me! I'm so proud. :stillsick:

This sounds highly subjective. A person would feel "sexually invisible" if someone of interest to them was oblivious to their advances, despite possibly being attractive to others. Your own anecdote suggests that you're aware of skewed sexual interaction. Women do get more attention, though this ties in with D); women are also subjected to more risk.

A) Common sense would say otherwise. The number of women having sex is presumably equal to that of their male counterparts, unless a select few individuals of either gender are exercising some kind of monopoly (looking only at heterosexual encounters). It takes two to tango.

B ) If you, "as women, enjoy the privilege of having unlimited access to sex and can't possibly understand what it's like to be totally un-doable" then it is not right to mock the "nice guys", but that isn't really the case. Why would you mock someone in the first place?

C) I'm guessing that is the case.

D) Yes. It's your paper, though.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Women can get sex anytime is a big stretch but I think there is something to be said for the difficulty of roles and expectations.

"You have no girlfriend" is seen as a legitimate put down towards men in every culture I've been exposed to.

I don't see the same sting towards women until they get older then the Old Maid put downs start

[Nas!]

If I ever leave this board, I nominate the sunglasses smiley as my replacement. It has already done some terrific work in this thread.

[brook]

straits - I've been subjected to the "but I'm a really nice guy, why are women so shallow" rant more than once in person. It's not just an internet thing although I wish it were.

[maarsen]

I am old enough to have seen it all and Cry has nailed it. There are a lot of 'men' who do blame women for their lack of sex. They need to look at themselves and see why. What does a woman have to gain by fucking a dork? Absolutely nothing. Politeness counts. Being a nice, responsible human being who actually likes the woman he sees, rather than seeing a sperm receptacle, will tend to get laid more often.

[straits]

straits - I've been subjected to the "but I'm a really nice guy, why are women so shallow" rant more than once in person. It's not just an internet thing although I wish it were.

Well that's unsavoury. I assumed it was background noise amplified by the ability to moan over the internet.

[bbstark]

A lot of the guys were all like, "Well, women shouldn't judge because they can have sex whenever they want. They don't understand what it's like to be totally sexually invisible."

what I want to know is where does this world view come from? I must have missed a memo during puberty, because I just ....

Ladies, do the rest of you have on-call sex slaves/buddies/gimps? What am I doing wrong?? How do I go about ensuring I have unlimited access to sex ?? who's the main provider here?

seriously though, the only women who have unlimited access to sex probably work in a brothel.

Also, you need to assume A) to be correct before addressing point B

Let's roll with it for a second, even if it makes my stomach churn: assuming women have unlimited access to sex, is it wrong to mock the nice guys?

I think there's a level of self-deception going on when you label yourself a 'nice guy', because you're giving yourself a 'get-out-of-jail-free' card. If a woman rejects you, she clearly doesn't have a valid reason for it, because she just rejected a 'nice guy'. It absolves the rejected of any potential flaws, hurting the ability for self-reflection and self-improvement.

It also obscures the very notion of what rejection is: most of the time it's NOT ABOUT YOU.

Unless you have telekenetic powers, you don't know what the other person is thinking, so how can you even test your speculations on why you got rejected?

Lastly, the very idea of labeling yourself a 'X' guy/girl is idiotic. You're not an adjective, you're the sum of your actions.

[Xray the Enforcer]

straits - I've been subjected to the "but I'm a really nice guy, why are women so shallow" rant more than once in person. It's not just an internet thing although I wish it were.

I've also heard that rant from self-proclaimed Nice Guys in person. It's definitely not an Internet phenomenon.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I'm not one to complain about that but Maybe I don't know what a nice guy is because doing things that seem very un-nice guy to me usually translates into success with women(it worked better in the teenage and early 20s years.)

These days my success usually depends on how stable my financial and health situation is, but there are still those what I think of as not nice guy tricks I pull out from sometimes that actually work.

I can't sustain a relationship with not nice guy tricks but they definitely work at the early and first meeting stage.

[brook]

I used to know a guy who was always moaning about how shallow and awful Sydney women were because they only wanted to hook up with guys with money.

This is someone who spent most of his nights in the type of bars that are mostly full of stockbroker and lawyer types and the type of women attracted to that AND who wouldn't dream of dating anyone who wasn't blonde thin and stunning. Somehow though it was only the women who were shallow - and not just the women in that particular bar but all women in the entire city.

The idea seems to be that because if a woman lowers her standards enough she can probably find someone she doesn't like and isn't attracted to who will get naked with her that all men should be entitled to sex with women they are attracted to simply by being 'nice'. Nice also seems to usually translate to 'not openly abusive'.

[Lady Asha]

I've also heard that rant from self-proclaimed Nice Guys in person. It's definitely not an Internet phenomenon.

It really isn't. I told my 50 year old tennis instructor at the country club that I wasn't interested when he asked me out and he said, "That's the problem with you 18 year olds. You can't see a good thing, too busy looking for muscled bad boys. Well, I have a good job and experience. One day you'll learn not to be so shallow."

I am old enough to have seen it all and Cry has nailed it. There are a lot of 'men' who do blame women for their lack of sex. They need to look at themselves and see why. What does a woman have to gain by fucking a dork? Absolutely nothing. Politeness counts. Being a nice, responsible human being who actually likes the woman he sees, rather than seeing a sperm receptacle, will tend to get laid more often.

OH MY GOD SO MUCH THIS.

I'd do you right now. :bowdown:

[Sci-2]

Waiting for Prince Alexander to show up.

Will warm up popcorn in the meantime.

[Lady Asha]

Women can get sex anytime is a big stretch but I think there is something to be said for the difficulty of roles and expectations.

"You have no girlfriend" is seen as a legitimate put down towards men in every culture I've been exposed to.

I don't see the same sting towards women until they get older then the Old Maid put downs start

Honestly, the "you can't get man" argument is thrown out a lot among women too. Though I get your point.

And I just want to say, as a woman who is considered conventionally "ideally" (i.e., the kind of pretty that wins pageants "apple pie" pretty) that yeah, I do get a lot of sexual attention. I have plenty of homely friends who do not.

But what we both have in common is that the sexual attention is LARGELY derogatory. And it's largely from people who are downright threatening.

If 90% of the sexual attention you got was from overly aggressive gay men twice your age, would it still be such a "privilege?" Because hey, they'd have sex with you. You could have it whenever you wanted.

Cause that's how I feel when men pull their car over to express their "sexual interest".

[Lady Asha]

Sexual attention, however unwanted, is still sexual attention. The fact is, these nice guys don't get any.

It's a privilege to be wanted.

But they don't want ME.

They want a warm orifice to hump for ten minutes until they're done.

Being objectified every day since puberty is not a privilege.

[Lady Asha]

We all want someone who loves us for who we are, but men have as difficult a struggle as women there. In the meantime, you get to walk around knowing you're attractive and being constantly complimented (even if it is by creepy old men half the time), since when did a guy ever get the same reassurance?

The point is, even though you may not like being seen as a sex symbol, you have to understand that for men it is something to strive for. It's not something that you just get from your looks. And there is a huge social, cultural and personal pressure to be sexually active.

My body is a beautiful piece of public property. And random men have a right to comment on it because you know, they like what they see! And why the fuck aren't I grateful? God, I'm such a stupid biatch. It's a complimenttttt.

And you know what? I really don't care if that's something to strive for as a man. I really don't give a fuck. It's not any kind of excuse.

I really don't think you understand what it feels like to be viewed as a walking three hole.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte]

@Leap

No I actually agree with lady Asha. Being hot she probably also has to cope with its numerous negative clichés like being that Dumb blonde or stupid slut or snob or whatever. I mean my sis has one of the highest gpa's in her MBA college and the only thing people notice are the looks. Id prefer being invisible any day to that shit.

[karaddin]

I think she was trying to be understanding right up until she was told that she should be grateful for street harassment, because it shows she's attractive. Because clearly having your entire worth arbitrarily defined by segments of society based on your looks is just wonderful, especially when that segment then feel free to behave however the fuck they want because you don't have any right to your own space, you aren't a person in the same sense they are.