Seaman_Prime Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 just take Daenery's dragons by force, instead of trading for them? Did Daenery's have some sort of tactic for keeping them safe and hidden? actullay now that I think about it, wouldn't the Thirteen in Quarth try to do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 just take Daenery's dragons by force, instead of trading for them? Did Daenery's have some sort of tactic for keeping them safe and hidden? actullay now that I think about it, wouldn't the Thirteen in Quarth try to do the same? Because then you run the risk of accidentally killing them while fighting for them. They aren't worth much dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 First, welcome to the forum... :cheers: May you enjoy here... As for why dragons weren't snatched in Qarth, many believe it is one of the biggest plot holes in ASOAIF. But then again, people were afraid of them, and Undying truly did to kidnap Daenerys. As for Astapor, well, the same situation - plot hole, but then a deal was made, dragon for slaves, and Astapori gladly accepted that arrangement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Because, the plot demands they act idiotic to facilitate Dany's plot as a conqueror. As demonstrated by their "excellent" bargaining skills of giving away their entire army and defense forces for a single dragon that they don't know how to control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Because, the plot demands they act idiotic to facilitate Dany's plot as a conqueror. As demonstrated by their "excellent" bargaining skills of giving away their entire army and defense forces for a single dragon that don't know how to control. Couldn't have said it better myself. I actually liked that Xaro tried to steal them in the show. Well, the idea was good, but not the execution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Daenerys was a guest in Qarth, and the city relies on trade. Why would its leaders steal dragons from their guest, and endanger its trade? And even if they decided that trade was less important than dragons, what sort of arrangement would they come to? Would the Thirteen control the dragons? The Pureborn? The Tourmaline Brotherhood? Most importantly, Daenerys was a guest of Xaro Xhoan Daxos, who hoped to win a dragon "honourably" by marrying the Mother of Dragons and requesting a dragon. This was surely the best option, as it did not involve stealing and therefore would not have endangered trade, and moreover it would have meant that Xaro would still be allied with Daenerys. All the Qartheen knew of Daenerys was that she was the first female khal, the blood of Old Valyria, the last Targaryen, the Unburnt, and the Mother of Dragons. Why would they risk making an enemy of this woman who performed black magic and walked out of her husband's funeral pyre unharmed? And seriously, maybe the Qartheen just don't care about dragons? What exactly would they do with them? Rebuild the Valyrian empire? It just doesn't fit with the general impression of the city. The Good Masters of Astapor, on the other hand, are greedy for a dragon. They know that Old Ghis could not stand against Old Valyria because the Valyrians had dragons, and Astapor itself is basically a crumbling ruin of a city. So it's not at all surprising that they would give away the Unsullied to a 15 year old girl and believe that they had come away with a good deal. And why exactly should they have feared Daenerys? As far as they knew, she did not even speak Valyrian - how exactly was she going to command the Unsullied (could you imagine trying to turn the tables on the Good Masters by having Missandei translate)? But most importantly, they just didn't expect her to have such strong anti-slavery sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Because the slavers honour guest right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Because, the plot demands they act idiotic to facilitate Dany's plot as a conqueror. As demonstrated by their "excellent" bargaining skills of giving away their entire army and defense forces for a single dragon that they don't know how to control. Basically this. By all logic, the Qartheen should have stolen the dragons earlier and Dany should never have gotten to Astapor still having them. And the Astapori would have had some training failsafe to keep the Unsullied from being used on them even after a transaction. But other people acting stupid is a plot necessity for Dany's arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning down the House Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Because the slavers honour guest right. Slavers have more honor than the Freys I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 So it's not at all surprising that they would give away the Unsullied to a 15 year old girl and believe that they had come away with a good deal. And why exactly should they have feared Daenerys? Even if they don't fear Dany the bargain was idiotic, as they just gave up their main defense force. Thus, opening themselves up to attack by any wannabee conqueror who notices there is this undefended city full of wealth(including a priceless dragon) without any major means of protecting themselves because they just sold their entire army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Even if they don't fear Dany the bargain was idiotic, as they just gave up their main defense force. Thus, opening themselves up to attack by any wannabee conqueror who notices there is this undefended city full of wealth(including a priceless dragon) without any major means of protecting themselves because they just sold their entire army. And even if they got greedy and thought giving up the entirety of their defense was worth the dragon (a big if by itself), it still beggars belief that they wouldn't have conditioned the Unsullied to have some prime directive not to harm Astapori citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Another event of Dany's ridiculous plot armour that keeps getting stronger and annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 They did try to take them, after they had tried everything else. They tried to murder Dany and then take her dragons. I don't see this as a plothole at all. ETA: Oops I thought this was about the Qarth warlocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Daenerys was a guest in Qarth, and the city relies on trade. Why would its leaders steal dragons from their guest, and endanger its trade? And even if they decided that trade was less important than dragons, what sort of arrangement would they come to? Would the Thirteen control the dragons? The Pureborn? The Tourmaline Brotherhood? Most importantly, Daenerys was a guest of Xaro Xhoan Daxos, who hoped to win a dragon "honourably" by marrying the Mother of Dragons and requesting a dragon. This was surely the best option, as it did not involve stealing and therefore would not have endangered trade, and moreover it would have meant that Xaro would still be allied with Daenerys. All the Qartheen knew of Daenerys was that she was the first female khal, the blood of Old Valyria, the last Targaryen, the Unburnt, and the Mother of Dragons. Why would they risk making an enemy of this woman who performed black magic and walked out of her husband's funeral pyre unharmed? And seriously, maybe the Qartheen just don't care about dragons? What exactly would they do with them? Rebuild the Valyrian empire? It just doesn't fit with the general impression of the city. The Good Masters of Astapor, on the other hand, are greedy for a dragon. They know that Old Ghis could not stand against Old Valyria because the Valyrians had dragons, and Astapor itself is basically a crumbling ruin of a city. So it's not at all surprising that they would give away the Unsullied to a 15 year old girl and believe that they had come away with a good deal. And why exactly should they have feared Daenerys? As far as they knew, she did not even speak Valyrian - how exactly was she going to command the Unsullied (could you imagine trying to turn the tables on the Good Masters by having Missandei translate)? But most importantly, they just didn't expect her to have such strong anti-slavery sentiments. Why would the story that they stole them go out? Dany has 4 people in her retinue capable of fighting. The rest are women, sick, children and old men. Dispatch those 4 guys, and the dragons are yours. It's not like they would have to trigger civil war or somesuch. Whatever trade guild that got them first would get a massive boost in influence. Even if the story does get out, so what? Does guest right even exist in Essos? It's the word of some Dothraki filth versus the word of the powerful merchant princes of Quarth. I don't think those are explanations at all. Plus, they seemed OK with just killing her once she sent Xaro packing and burned the House of the Undying. So the whole thing that they feared her because she was Daenarys Stormborn and blah de blah doesn't hold much water, hell they almost openly mocked her when she came to petition them for ships. Once it became clear she had no intentions of giving away the dragons, those greedy, ruthless merchant princes not giving a damn about three dragons anymore is just Harry Potter-grade plot armour. As for the Good Masters, that still reeks of rampant idiocy. They are ready to turn over their entire armed force (save a few guards) to someone they don't even know, without any sort of precautions, to get a dragon that they don't have a clue how to control. Yes, yes I know they're evil slavers so they think everything can be controlled, but their business practices are just stupid. It's like an armorer handing over a loaded gun to his client, without having one himself, before even getting his money, because hey, as far as you know from talking to him the guy isin't a robber, so why not trust him fully, right? Oh, and about Dany not speaking Valyrian, it's not like she's one of the only people left of Valyrian descent in the world, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 All of these arguments go to show why Dany is the true hero of this story, so much plot armor nothing takes her down. The girl has so much plot armor she fulfills the PTWP and AA prohecy to the full. Oh no its not Jon or Stannis :crying: . Dany is basicly what a regular fantasy series looks like accept she's a girl and that drives people crazy. :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Hindsight is a great judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 All the characters have plot armor, its not just Dany. Tyrion probably has the most, he should have died like 20 times. He survived 2 trials by combat, fighting in a massive battle at BW. Jon should have been killed by the wildlings. People love to harp on the stupidity of the slavers, but the wildlings are just as stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Why would the story that they stole them go out? Dany has 4 people in her retinue capable of fighting. The rest are women, sick, children and old men. Dispatch those 4 guys, and the dragons are yours. It's not like they would have to trigger civil war or somesuch. Whatever trade guild that got them first would get a massive boost in influence. Even if the story does get out, so what? Does guest right even exist in Essos? It's the word of some Dothraki filth versus the word of the powerful merchant princes of Quarth. I don't think those are explanations at all. Plus, they seemed OK with just killing her once she sent Xaro packing and burned the House of the Undying. So the whole thing that they feared her because she was Daenarys Stormborn and blah de blah doesn't hold much water, hell they almost openly mocked her when she came to petition them for ships. Once it became clear she had no intentions of giving away the dragons, those greedy, ruthless merchant princes not giving a damn about three dragons anymore is just Harry Potter-grade plot armour. As for the Good Masters, that still reeks of rampant idiocy. They are ready to turn over their entire armed force (save a few guards) to someone they don't even know, without any sort of precautions, to get a dragon that they don't have a clue how to control. Yes, yes I know they're evil slavers so they think everything can be controlled, but their business practices are just stupid. It's like an armorer handing over a loaded gun to his client, without having one himself, before even getting his money, because hey, as far as you know from talking to him the guy isin't a robber, so why not trust him fully, right? Oh, and about Dany not speaking Valyrian, it's not like she's one of the only people left of Valyrian descent in the world, eh? When the client seems (to your eyes) a naive, soft-hearted, impoverished, desperate 14 year old girl, and you are insufferably greedy and arrogant, yes, of course the risk for such a great reward seems reasonable. They believed she could not harm them. I do not think that knew about what happened in Qarth at the time, either. As for Qarth, the warlocks seemed to need the 3 dragons and Daenerys as well, to tap into their power and magically enslave her forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Hindsight is a great judge. Bingo, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Because the plot demands it. It's a simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.