Lord Tywin is a good person

[KingslayerHodor]

I've always found it strange that you guys give Lord Tywin so much crap when he's responsible for single-handedly keeping peace in Westeros for 20 years. By common sense, it just follows that Lord Tywin's a hero for preventing wars in a continent for 20 years. By doing so, he prevented a bunch of wars and needless deaths that would have otherwise occurred. In fact, he probably saved millions and millions of lives. Yet most of you still give Lord Tywin a lot of crap, and treat him with no respect. Lord Tywin deserves more respect than this.

Some will argue that Lord Tywin's actions to restore the Lannister family back to glory were just evil. But those actions were all necessary for the greater good: House Lannister, as the Warden of the West, had to bare its fangs and show that it was the boss to the other houses. Can you imagine the chaos that could have resulted otherwise? Other houses would have tried to take over House Lannister, leading to needless deaths. Lord Tywin's actions saved the lives of many overall. Some might give the example of Lord Tywin forcing his father's mistress to walk naked through Lannisport, but this was well deserved because the woman was a controlling thief.

Many blame Lord Tywin for the gruesome deaths of Elia and her children. But as Lord Tywin himself pointed out, he did not approve of Gregor and Amory's actions. Lord Tywin is a greater man than that. If he had his way, he probably would have captured them and given them to Robert, instead of getting them killed. Jaime himself said he didn't expect Lord Tywin to hurt them.

Lord Tywin was justified in starting the war against the Starks. His son Tyrion was irresponsibly kidnapped by a lunatic named Catelyn, and he had to do the right thing by saving his son's life. Ned would have done the same thing if Bran were kidnapped. Further, Lord Tywin had to defend his family's name; otherwise, other people would start taking his family members hostage and doing the same. Can you imagine the chaos that would have resulted?

Lord Tywin's killing of Robb and Catelyn was heroic in the sense that he saved the lives of thousands of soldiers that would have been needlessly killed during a proper battle. Lord Tywin himself pointed out that there was no need to have many needlessly killed, and Tyrion himself agreed with that assessment. Robb was an idiot who was just dragging on the battle and he would have lost anyway; Lord Tywin's actions were necessary to prevent the needless deaths of many.

Some will obviously argue that Lord Tywin is evil because of his treatment of Tyrion. And I agree, it probably wasn't deserved. But I consider Lord Tywin kind of a tragic hero ever since Joanna's death. If Joanna hadn't died, Lord Tywin probably would have been far nicer to Tyrion and given him the attention that he deserved. But I think any of you would have at least slightly blamed your own son for killing his mother. Is it rational? No, it's not, but the son is a living reminder of the fact that Joanna is dead, and that Lord Tywin will never see her again. Everyone reading this post probably would've resented their own son if this happened, at least slightly. We should forgive Lord Tywin for treating Tyrion the way he did.

We see a common theme here throughout Lord Tywin's actions. He always acts for the greater good, and enforces peace with an iron fist. His actions may sometimes seem cruel, but they are all necessary for the sake of peace. I hope you will start treating Lord Tywin with the respect he deserves.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Eh, no....

Tywin is a fascinating character, but also a morally bankrupt one. What makes him tragic is that he is clearly not a born sociopath - he chose to become this way, very consciously, to save the Lannister legacy (in his view). To achieve that end he committed some monstrous acts.

He has some redeeming qualities, but nothing that makes up for the evil he's done. And some of the things you say are just factually wrong (he explicitly tells Tyrion that he wanted the Targ kids killed, for instance)

[Boarsbane]

Don't forget that Tywin let Tyrion run around spending Lannister gold on wine and whores, loaned the crown gold so Robert could throw tourneys, and gave up a chance at wielding a Valyrian steel sword so his son and grandson could have them. Tywin is clearly the most generous lord in Westeros.

RIP Lion Lord, you can finally be with your Joanna now.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Tywin is responsible for many things and he simply excuse himself saying that "I didn't, it was..:" and some people believe his explanations.

I've always found odd how convenient was for him to simply forget not telling his men to capture Elia alive. Does anybody here believe that Tywin Lannister would forget such a thing? Heh. He has a good explanation for everything he has apparently not done. At least Ned Stark has the balls to carry out the sentence himself.

[Stormland's Fury]

Tywin Lannister is Westeros Santa. He even dresses in red.

[The Bastard of Walton]

Depends on your POV. Some of the things he did make me struggle to call him a good person. A talented politician, good General, a man devoted to his family name & its longevity, but morally not a good person. Not for me, but I am a Stark Loyalist.

[averde]

Eh, no....

Tywin is a fascinating character, but also a morally bankrupt one. What makes him tragic is that he is clearly not a born sociopath - he chose to become this way, very consciously, to save the Lannister legacy (in his view). To achieve that end he committed some monstrous acts.

He has some redeeming qualities, but nothing that makes up for the evil he's done. And some of the things you say are just factually wrong (he explicitly tells Tyrion that he wanted the Targ kids killed, for instance)

This. Tywin is a really interesting and tragic character. He wasn't born evil but in his quest to make his family great he lost his soul.

[Torrhen Blackwood]

Lord Tywin wasn't a man to be trifled with, certainly. But calling his sanctioning the deaths of King Robb and Lady Catelyn "heroic", please. It might have been justified depending on your outlook, but to say it was the work of a hero? Spare me.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Lord Tywin had his son's wife raped by dozens of men, and then had his own son finish her off. Lord Tywin is a horrible, horrible, horrible human being, and that is just one of the fucked up things he's done. There's no argument on doing this to your own son. I find what Randyl Tarley did to Sam as much more admirable than what Tywin did to Tyrion.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

It is one thing to like Tywin, but excuse his behaviour? Nope...

[Greywind84]

I'd put him above Walder Frey when it comes to the most detestable characters, and thats saying something.

[Lion of the West]

I totally think that Tywin was a Great Man but I don't think that calling him a Good Man would be correct.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

And Ramsay is a tender lover caring for the feelings of his sexual partners.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

A better thread title would be: Lord Tywin was an idiot

All that Tywin did in the name of 'restoring honor and respect (read fear)' to House Lannister is actually what has brought it to the brink of ruin. His actions from first just restoring 'their good name' after his father's death up to deciding only Targaryens MIGHT be good enough for his family, to the vengeance he wrecked on those for perceived slights, have almost brought House Lannister to it's knees. I actually LMAO at the irony of it all.

[Lord Joker Of FunLand]

People, people....this is the guy that started the "Is Ned good?" thread, the "Bloodraven impregnated Catelyn with a tree branch" thread and the "Joffrey's dad is Aerys, Robert, Rhaegar or Viserys" thread.

[Lord Thornhart]

It's interesting you turned a complete blind eye to the whole Tysha thing.

[Minsc]

When did Tywin alone ensure twenty years of peace in Westeros?

[A Man Has Said]

Tywin is the Heart of Darkness in ASoIaF. A good portion of the evil done in Westeros emanates from his will.

Look at his underlings; The Mountain, Vargo Hoat, Ser Amory Lorch, Janos Slynt

..and their underlings; The Tickler, Chiswick, Dunsen, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Shitmouth, Qyburn, Zollo, Shagwell, Septon Utt,..

murderers, torturers, rapists, child molesters all.. ..

"There is a tool for every purpose and a purpose for every tool."
~ Tywin Lannister

That quotation removes any doubt that Tywin selected these men for their evil nature, to do evil deeds in his name, under his employ.

Crimes he's responsible for include:

- wiped out the Reynes and Tarbecks

- Tytos' mistress shamed, paraded naked through Lannisport

- Tysha gang-raped and shamed

- The Sack of King's Landing

- The murders of Prince Aegon (Clegane) and Rhaenys (Lorch)

- The subsequent rape and murder of Elia Martell (Clegane)

- Clegane, Hoat and Lorch sent to pillage the Riverlands

- Engineered the Red Wedding

- The Jeyne Poole plot

- General treatment of Tyrion, use of his other children as pawns

-The devastation of Saltpans

-Oh, and he raised Cersei to be the sweetie we know and loathe.

I'd put him above Walder Frey when it comes to the most detestable characters, and thats saying something.

Yep. For that matter all the Freys put together, plus the Boltons. The only characters who might even come close to him in misery inflicted are in Essos - the slavers who created the Unsullied, and the Dothraki are pretty bad. But their evil is collective and culturally determined, not individual.

(Afterthought: maybe the Ironborn could give him a run for his money in evil, but with them it's more barbarity. Tywin's evil has a veneer of civilization, which somehow makes it worse to me.)

[Ramsay B.]

People, people....this is the guy that started the "Is Ned good?" thread, the "Bloodraven impregnated Catelyn with a tree branch" thread and the "Joffrey's dad is Aerys, Robert, Rhaegar or Viserys" thread.

The Black Hawk reincarnated?

[Lady Fevre Dream]

People, people....this is the guy that started the "Is Ned good?" thread, the "Bloodraven impregnated Catelyn with a tree branch" thread and the "Joffrey's dad is Aerys, Robert, Rhaegar or Viserys" thread.

Yeah, I get that, but it felt like a good opportunity to say: Lord Tywin is an Idiot, LOL

Also, why does the OP think it necessary to write almost a whole chapter to start a thread? Does the OP think most of us don't realize the deal and really READ the whole thing?