INCBlackbird Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 lots of people seem to think that Theon smiling at the execusion and kicking the head in the first chapter is a sign that he is cruel, which is think is a very wrong assumption considering that Theon is quite squamish, he's not cruel at all. I've Always interpreted his smiling as him trying to hide his fear, anger, sadness... because he wants to look strong. he displays one emotion to hide another. lots of people do it, and I've recently discovered it's called reaction formation. so what do you all think about the smiling? also, is there anyone here who actually believes Theon is cruel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I think that he was trying to be a macho man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I've always thought Theon got a bad rap. I think all of his actions are explainable. Killing those 2 orphans tho... he did sign off on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopsang Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 lots of people seem to think that Theon smiling at the execusion and kicking the head in the first chapter is a sign that he is cruel, which is think is a very wrong assumption considering that Theon is quite squamish, he's not cruel at all. Nope! Not cruel at all. I could have a ball with that guy. We could go around having superficial, objectifying sex and killing children to save face all around Westeros. We could mix in some betrayals, selfishness, and self-righteousness while we're at it and the world would be great and flowerly and not cruel at all. On a more serious note, I think your have merit in saying that the smiling is a sort of reaction formation; however, the truth is, Theon has a lot of POV chapters were we get an inner working into his mind, and while he struggles with self-identity, he still is a messed-up guy. He uses machismo to cover up him being "weak", but that doesn't justify his actions/personality and it doesn't mean he is without cruelty. If anything, it just makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I think that he was trying to be a macho man. I think that's a part of it too, he does it a lot, and it's also a reaction formation but the macho behavior is to cover up his feminine traits I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Think of how outsiders see the North. Then add how outsiders see the IB. Theon's got a lot to live up to, and he's the oldest of the next generation in WF, so any sign of weakness would be very evident.He's not a character I'm particularly fond of, but he doesn't seem notably cruel or sadistic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 I've always thought Theon got a bad rap. I think all of his actions are explainable. Killing those 2 orphans tho... he did sign off on that. the killing of the miller boys is definitly the worst thing he's done, but even in that there's a lot of factors that sorta soften the blow for me. it was ramsay's idea, he manipulated theon into doing it, theon was in a state of desparation at the time, he has nightmares about it afterwards... it's still very wrong and he is still responsible but I tend to think in grades of responsibility and this one is lower then if it would have been theon's idea and he felt no guilt over it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Jon said it best: "Theon is an ass."the killing of the miller boys is definitly the worst thing he's done, but even in that there's a lot of factors that sorta soften the blow for me.Are you kidding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Flandrensis Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Yeah, I'm with the "Theon is an ass" crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfield Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 It didn't make me think of him as cruel, more like it made me think of him as a douche. I believe we all know the type.Edit: I mean my first impressions of Theon in AGOT. After that my thoughts about him changed as his story progressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 the killing of the miller boys is definitly the worst thing he's done, but even in that there's a lot of factors that sorta soften the blow for me. it was ramsay's idea, he manipulated theon into doing it, theon was in a state of desparation at the time, he has nightmares about it afterwards... it's still very wrong and he is still responsible but I tend to think in grades of responsibility and this one is lower then if it would have been theon's idea and he felt no guilt over it...I think we're mostly defined by how we act in a crisis, though. Most people don't casually do evil with breakfast. It's what we allow/excuse in ourselves when we're angry/upset/ in a crisis which is the true sounding.Which is not to say that crises aren't sometimes mitigating circumstances...but just being in one doesn't IMO soften killing 2 kids to save your own neck. I agree that's the worst thing Theon's done...betraying the IB at Moat Cailin is 2nd...but it's still a pretty heavy duty choice he made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Burns Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I don't really care for Theon either. Although, this video I saw a while back made me like him more, and made his actions make sense. He wanted to please his family, as anyone would want to do, but he chose the wrong family. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsSVTt5kgZk&list=LLyrL3GY0K4QBygnL0u3Yp2Q&index=106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I think being a hostage was really tough for Theon as he wanted to belong somewhere but he never really did at Winterfell, He fell to vices and became vulnerable as he wanted to belong to his father again and to prove himself he decided to take Winterfell. theon was just lonely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 I don't really care for Theon either. Although, this video I saw a while back made me like him more, and made his actions make sense. He wanted to please his family, as anyone would want to do, but he chose the wrong family. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsSVTt5kgZk&list=LLyrL3GY0K4QBygnL0u3Yp2Q&index=106 oh! I know that video! i'm actually a vidder, it's my main way of contributing to fandom. so now that you're sharing a video, i'd like to share one of mine : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmM16GohEsA I have tons of Theon videos but that one is my character study. i'll respond to everyone else tomorrow when i've had a good night's sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Flandrensis Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 One can have all sorts of misfortune and awfulness, but it doesn't mean one gets a free pass to be a douche, in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Jon said it best: "Theon is an ass."Are you kidding me.Theon is an ass. So is Jon. I doubt Jon took the time to think about how Theon might have felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Maybe he has Asperger's. I always thought that there was a disconnect in Theon's POV's, like Arya's disassociation and Cersei's stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 yea, playing with a head does give us a bit of a clue on Theon's true nature very early on. I was more than a little grossed out by that early on, before I knew Theon was capable of killing children and drowning innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Gods. I honestly couldn't give two shits that Theon kicked the head. It its right in with his cocky attitude. I liked that about him. But to pretend it wasn't a negative action is just silly. If youre squeamish you don't laugh and kick heads, nor do you encourage feeding people to direwolves literally while you can see two of them tearing out a persons entrails and eating them. Just... Come off it. Embrace what Theon is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Nope! Not cruel at all. I could have a ball with that guy. We could go around having superficial, objectifying sex and killing children to save face all around Westeros. We could mix in some betrayals, selfishness, and self-righteousness while we're at it and the world would be great and flowerly and not cruel at all. On a more serious note, I think your have merit in saying that the smiling is a sort of reaction formation; however, the truth is, Theon has a lot of POV chapters were we get an inner working into his mind, and while he struggles with self-identity, he still is a messed-up guy. He uses machismo to cover up him being "weak", but that doesn't justify his actions/personality and it doesn't mean he is without cruelty. If anything, it just makes it worse. Theon is indeed a messed up guy, if he wasn't and he just killed people because he likes it then he would be cruel. but when reading his chapters you get to read his thoughts and a lot of those thoughts are about how guilty he feels, how he feels he has no choice, him being completely delusional, and most of all him wondering why he is not enjoying his winnings! so which quote exactly tells you that he is cruel? there is no quote where he enjoys the things he or his men do in winterfell, there's only quotes about how much guilt it causes him. he can't even be an iron born because stealing from the people he killed "leaves a bitter taste in his mouth" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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