TallTyrion Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 But Stannis is only the rightful claimant as long as he is ROBERT'S heir. If another family took the throne (Aegon), he is no longer next in line. Just like Dany isn't the rightful heir at the moment By that logic he would bend the knee to any new family that took the Throne. If the Tyrells crowned Mace would Stannis bend the knee since a new family took the throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Wilfred Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 This post is only meant if/when Aegon takes the throne first. By that logic he would bend the knee to any new family that took the Throne. If the Tyrells crowned Mace would Stannis bend the knee since a new family took the throne?If he ain't the rightful heir, I believe he would step down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averde Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 This post is only meant if/when Aegon takes the throne first. If he ain't the rightful heir, I believe he would step down Stannis is the legal heir to the Baratheon dynasty no matter who's ruling from the Iron Throne. He's going to fight for that to the bitter end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Stannis is dead set on getting the throne, and not just because he is Robert's true heir. He won't stop fighting until he dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Wilfred Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Stannis is the legal heir to the Baratheon dynasty no matter who's ruling from the Iron Throne. He's going to fight for that to the bitter end. So lets hope Tommen can hold it for a little while longer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Wilfred Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Stannis is dead set on getting the throne, and not just because he is Robert's true heir. He won't stop fighting until he dies. But he says he is only going for it because he is the rightful heir. Would be go further than that and go for it no matter who sits on the IT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 He will always be Robert's rightful heir, and that's what he's basing the legal succession on. Convincing him to change what he views as being the lawful dynasty would be borderline impossible. It only happened the first time because he was Robert's younger brother, and he had a very unique relationship there. Also, he's spent the last 15 or so years feeling hard done by. Ned got the thanks for Storm's End, his younger brother got the better castle, Ned got the position of Hand over him, Jaime was being given the Warden of the East title, the storm lords rose for Renly rather than him, etc. Giving up the throne would be a continuation of that, and the idea of it happening again pissed him right off during the parley with Renly (though, that may have just been Renly). Also also, he seems to have conjoined the ideas of kingship and stopping the Others. I'm not sure how one would go about untangling that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 This post is only meant if/when Aegon takes the throne first. If he ain't the rightful heir, I believe he would step down Then you've fundamentally misunderstood his character. The guy murdered his own brother for the Throne and is just gonna give that up because a new family takes it? That makes zero sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 But he says he is only going for it because he is the rightful heir. Would be go further than that and go for it no matter who sits on the IT?After GRRM said Stannis is based off Tiberius, specifically I, Claudius's portrayal of Tiberius, it's pretty clear that he wants the throne for more than just duty. Stannis is a more complex character than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Stannis isn't going to bend the knee to Aegon. He fought at his brother's side to overthrow Aerys, so the possibility of him submitting to House Targaryen is a thing of the past. Stannis is the guy who stubbornly starved to death in Storm's End eating rats and worse. If he's that stubborn for his duty to a brother he didn't like at all, he'll apply that same stubbornness to pressing his claim until he gets it or he falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averde Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 After GRRM said Stannis is based off Tiberius, specifically I, Claudius's portrayal of Tiberius, it's pretty clear that he wants the throne for more than just duty. Stannis is a more complex character than that.I know this is true, I watched the interview where he said it just a bit ago but what an odd statement to make. I dont see the connection, and even where I could stretch and say I do I think it was odd statement to make. I mean just look at the Tiberius official description from the show - " the son of Livia and her first husband; Claudius' uncle. Tiberius is violent and antagonististic. Although he chafes under his mother's rule, he is manipulated by Livia almost as often as Augustus. After he is forced to divorce his first wife in order to marry Julia, all of Tiberius' good qualities disappear, and he becomes even more of a "bad apple" on the Claudian family tree. As emperor, he begins to display a propensity for bizarre pornography and exhibit many depraved sexual tendencies." Where is the Stannis in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I know this is true, I watched the interview where he said it just a bit ago but what an odd statement to make. I dont see the connection, and even where I could stretch and say I do I think it was odd statement to make. I mean just look at the Tiberius official description from the show - " the son of Livia and her first husband; Claudius' uncle. Tiberius is violent and antagonististic. Although he chafes under his mother's rule, he is manipulated by Livia almost as often as Augustus. After he is forced to divorce his first wife in order to marry Julia, all of Tiberius' good qualities disappear, and he becomes even more of a "bad apple" on the Claudian family tree. As emperor, he begins to display a propensity for bizarre pornography and exhibit many depraved sexual tendencies." Where is the Stannis in that?I will admit that I have not watched the show, but from that I can see a couple things that are similar to Stannis.Stannis does condemn a number of people to violent deaths, and he is an antagonist to most of the POVs. He was always said to be unpleasant before Melisandre, and after he met her, he begins to condone the burning of septs, godswoods, and weirwoods. Another thing, Tiberius from that series is said to desperately want the love of his people, and I have speculated before that Stannis's true motivation is to finally step out of the shadow of his brothers and be appreciated for his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Again, I think we're mixing up claims with rights. By laws of succession, yes, right now, the throne rightfully belongs to Stannis. That's why he's so bitter and determinate to get it. He's the only legitimate heir of Robert. He can't prove it though. And, until all of Robert's "children" are dead, he isn't entitled to get it. That's why he has supporters: because legally, he has rights to the Throne, and to those who believe the accusations of incest, he's the real King. Having a claim in Westeros is like the reasons a politician would give people so they would vote for him/her. That's why we don't get some random Tollet going to KL and saying "I want to be King!". Even fakers go and say "I'm X legitimate child", being X someone close to power. Renly's claim was based on his Baratheon blood, and Aegon's and Dany's, on the fact some people still would back up the Targaryens and see the Baratheons as usurpers (that and Dragons). Euron is first getting the dragons, so he could conquer Westeros by force, like Aegon I did. So, for Stannis, anyone who tries to get the throne is an usurper, as his family got the Throne by conquest. Stannis would become what Dany is, someone who still have a claim due to family being on the throne once, and he wouldn't stop trying to get it back. Who would have given Stannis the fiercest fight, the toddler or the babe? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Stannis would never bend the knee, especially to a newcomer. I don't see how he lost his claim after Aegon appeared to be honest. the Targaryens are no longer the kings of the throne, since it was conquered (or usurped, whatever) by House Baratheon. Let's say if Aegon conquers the throne, Stannis will be in the same position that Aegon is now, trying to retake the throne for his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Having a claim in Westeros is like the reasons a politician would give people so they would vote for him/her. That's why we don't get some random Tollet going to KL and saying "I want to be King!". Even fakers go and say "I'm X legitimate child", being X someone close to power. Renly's claim was based on his Baratheon blood, and Aegon's and Dany's, on the fact some people still would back up the Targaryens and see the Baratheons as usurpers (that and Dragons). Euron is first getting the dragons, so he could conquer Westeros by force, like Aegon I did. So, for Stannis, anyone who tries to get the throne is an usurper, as his family got the Throne by conquest. Stannis would become what Dany is, someone who still have a claim due to family being on the throne once, and he wouldn't stop trying to get it back. Yeah, this. I posted something kinda similar cause I haven't seen your post lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC_Lymond Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 So I guess the more interesting question is what would Stannis do if a legitimized (real) son of Robert showed up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 So I guess the more interesting question is what would Stannis do if a legitimized (real) son of Robert showed up? Only the King can legitimize a bastard. Stannis considers himself to be the king and he isn't gonna do that anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell Resident Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I believe Stannis would find it hard to believe the authenticity of Aegon. I think he would use that as an excuse to continue to claim he is the one true king of the 7 kingdoms. No. Stannis will not step aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Lord's Daughter Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 First, he wouldn't want to believe Aegon's the real deal. Second, Stannis is the man who would fight to the bitter end and then some. If Aegon conquered the Red Keep before Stannis, Stannis would consider him a userper to his throne and continue fighting. He wants that throne not just because he has a claim to it as Robert's legal heir but because he himself wants to rule Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC_Lymond Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Only the King can legitimize a bastard. Stannis considers himself to be the king and he isn't gonna do that anytime soon. I was thinking more along the lines of a son of Robert who's been sailing the world for years (before even AGoK starts), and happens to have signed legitimization papers in his pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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