Dune sequels worth it?

[cseresz.reborn]

I've just started reading Frank Herbert's "Dune" (which is already shaping up to be an awesome book), but I've heard mixed things from my friends about the sequels, so I'd just thought I'd ask those who've read them, is it worth it to read the entire saga, or are my friends right (they often aren't)?

The concept (of the first book) is great but ...

1. characters are extremely shallow

2. story is boring

3. prose is very weak

4. dialogues, well, they are pathetic

(Hmm, I could have written this about Ender's Game. You should stick with Asimov (3-4 good novels), Clarke (3 good novels) and Bradbury.)

The later books are even worse.

[Grack21]

Asimov put me off sci fi for about 15 years. :P

[Inkdaub7]

I like them all but the first one is easily the best. I think they are all worthwhile reads, though. My mom loves them.

The sequels are sort of a 'chasing that first high' type thing. I enjoy them mainly because I like the world introduced to me in Dune and I like going back to that world, but the sequels just aren't as good as the first book. I tried to continue this with the prequels but it didn't work.

[Exa Inova]

yeah, scot's right: volumes V and VI are good. II is weakest of the bunch. III has its moments, but, yaknow, jacurutu. bleh. IV is an acquired taste.

i read the first true son sequel. weak.

I agree with this.

Would pointing to the book 6 'problem' be a spoiler?

[Calibandar]

Yes, because there will be people reading this thread ( like myself), who are interested in people's thoughts on the series, but not have read the later books in the series.

[Tears of Lys]

Oh, do "spoiler" it, won't you? I'd love to read it.

[Spring Bass]

The first three books in the series are fascinating, although Dune is easily the best among them. I particularly liked the contrast between

Paul and his son Leto in how they dealt with the gigantic horde of genetic memory people, as well as the knowledge they had about the future. Paul tried to reject it as long as he could, but it ended up being impossible. Leto, on the other hand, ultimately embraced it, and decided to pick a path that would ensure humanity's survival (God Emperor more or less says that if he hadn't, humanity was going to get wiped out by self-replicating, sentient machines in a few thousand years).

[sologdin]

my main criticism of all six main sequence volumes is the coyness of narration. there's lotsa perspective characters, and the narration will refer obliquely to their plans for the future. then things happen. later the happenings are alleged to have been part of the plans of the various protagonists/deuteragonists/antagonists.

it's bullshit faux suspense. we already have access to the protagonist's thoughts, so the plan in question should be disclosed along with the rest of the thoughts--unless the mechanism is that the plan is so secret that even the planner has no access to it.

[Madness]

I'd like to point out that many, many of the objections here center around the evolutionary state of SF before and after Herbert was writing. Much of it was very lacking in description. Go back and read the SF greats and much of it has about a paragraph of description at the beginning and ending of each chapter simply to set the stage. Most old SF was purely told by dialogue and introspection as ways to advance plot.

Otherwise, the other objections seem symptoms of publishing. I mean, Dune itself was originally published as serials and much of old SFF was printed as magazine serials, even many of the classic SFF that we now read as complete books.

As to reading of the Dune series, I +1 reading Frank's books but not the Herbert/Anderson prequels.

Also, I would suggest that Dune cannot be read on its own. If you are going to read Dune, at the very least read them up till the end of God-Emperor of Dune

[Serious Callers Only]

(God Emperor more or less says that if he hadn't, humanity was going to get wiped out by self-replicating, sentient machines in a few thousand years).

they aren't supposed to be sentient

[gougef]

I'd like to point out that many, many of the objections here center around the evolutionary state of SF before and after Herbert was writing. Much of it was very lacking in description. Go back and read the SF greats and much of it has about a paragraph of description at the beginning and ending of each chapter simply to set the stage. Most old SF was purely told by dialogue and introspection as ways to advance plot.

Otherwise, the other objections seem symptoms of publishing. I mean, Dune itself was originally published as serials and much of old SFF was printed as magazine serials, even many of the classic SFF that we now read as complete books.

As to reading of the Dune series, I +1 reading Frank's books but not the Herbert/Anderson prequels.

Also, I would suggest that Dune cannot be read on its own. If you are going to read Dune, at the very least read them up till the end of God-Emperor of Dune

One could argue that at the core purpose of it all was the survival of humanity which is brought to fruition through the first four. Personally, Dune is great world-building, but God Emperor was the best novel.

[williamjm]

my main criticism of all six main sequence volumes is the coyness of narration. there's lotsa perspective characters, and the narration will refer obliquely to their plans for the future. then things happen. later the happenings are alleged to have been part of the plans of the various protagonists/deuteragonists/antagonists.

it's bullshit faux suspense. we already have access to the protagonist's thoughts, so the plan in question should be disclosed along with the rest of the thoughts--unless the mechanism is that the plan is so secret that even the planner has no access to it.

I think that was one of my main problems with Messiah and Children, there were a lot of cryptic conversations and there often didn't seem to be any good reason for the participants to be so cryptic with each other. I suppose to some extent it might be a reflection of the obsessive secrecy some of the characters have, but even if there might be a reason for it, it didn't make it any less annoying to read.

[Rorshach]

I loved Dune. Then followed the path of Book 2 - worse, 3 - worse, 4 - worse again.. I stopped reading the series at that point.

If it's true, as Ser Scott has alleged, that 5 and 6 are better again... well, I may have to pick them up. More books to read.. Hard work, that!

[Spring Bass]

Asimov put me off sci fi for about 15 years. :P

Asimov is hit-or-miss. I thought Nemesis and the short story "Nightfall" were excellent, but the three primary novels in the Foundation trilogy were dull.

Nemesis, interestingly enough, might be an unofficial distant prequel to the Foundation series.

[Arthmail]

I have leant Dune out to more people than any other book, people that do not read SF, and always the response has been highly positive. So with that in mind, i think that anyone that dislikes the book is crazy and should look to a medical professional as soon as possible.

[Lannes]

When I reread them, I always read Dune and Dune Messiah together, kinda like one long book. They're my two favorites of the series, anyway......

[Inkdaub7]

Now I want to re-read the series.

[Gigei]

I have read up to God Emperor of Dune which generally completed the story arcs of Paul and Leto. I am particularly fond of GEoD because the culmination of Leto's plan was really epic in scope. I mean, before that book, the necessary actions/road had always been alluded to as monstrous and then in GEoD we finally get to see it

[Marcus Cicero]

The concept (of the first book) is great but ...

1. characters are extremely shallow

2. story is boring

3. prose is very weak

4. dialogues, well, they are pathetic

I agree with this. I put down the first book about 2/3 in, finding the characters to be inhuman and the writing to be repellent.

[gmavridis]

The original six books that Frank Herbert wrote is one of the best SF series ever. He created a world and a SF hype. The only one that did such a thing before Herbert in my opinion was Asimov.

The first new trilogy that his son "wrote" was not bad, but it was not as good as the original.

The second trilogy was trying to wrap up the main events that lead humanity to ban the thinking machines. They wanted to create a new mythology around Dune universe but it did not work very well.

The last two books that were "written" by his son, was supposed to be after the notes that Frank left. Well the problem is that they messed with the original heroes of the original Dune novels and tey linked them with their prequels. That in my opinion destroyed the amazing finale of the original Dune novels creating a hybrid that reminds me a himaira.