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Video Games: You Game Like a Young Man, With Nothing Held Back. Admirable, But Mistaken.


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#141 Ran

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

I said that Linda wasn't much of a gamer earlier, when I was giving away those keys (Nexuiz still available, BTW). I am now a liar, though, thanks to The Secret World going free-to-play. Next thing I know, she bought a copy on Amazon and is presently installing it. She liked some of the things we've heard about the game -- how they've incorporated researching historical and occult information into quests and such -- so she's willing to give it a go, even though she's heard there's lots of combat and she's no good at any of that (I'll be dragooned into handling the combat so we can get to the interesting quest bits -- sort of a weird co-op play.)

On a separate note, 7 or 8 missions in on Far Cry 3 and I have to say, I'm enjoying myself. Even considering bumping it up from Adventurer, now that I'm starting to get something of a hang of it. Yes, the plot is ridiculous, but the voice acting's good and the feel of the open world is pretty amazing (even if tigers keep seeming to show up and cramp my style when I'm trying to recon enemy outposts). Despite my having started and rather liking Sleeping Dogs's environment, FC3's displaced it as I try and figure out where the hell the boars are (I still don't have even the most basic ammo pouch) or the best approach to getting to the various towers.

ETA: Also, Hawken's Open Beta was due to have started. Now delayed and their site seems to be throwing a hissy fit, but I expect it should be good to go some time tonight, or tomorrow perhaps.

Edited by Ran, 12 December 2012 - 03:47 PM.


#142 karaddin

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

It could be worse... you could live in Australia.

Hey we finally got rid of that asshole from SA that was blocking reform and R classification for games legislation is going through the state parliaments. Pretty sure NSW has already passed it, but can't be bothered checking right now!

#143 The Anti-Targ

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

Really? In Europe there's usually three or four languages available to choose from, depending on where you buy the game. Which makes the fact that some of the censored German versions are available only in German really frustrating. I still haven't played Fallout - New Vegas because of this (since I'm generally too stubborn to shell out money for the same game twice, even if it cost only 5€) because of course you can expect the translation to be lazy and the voice acting to be poor, in most cases.


Canada probably only gets the US publication version of games, which at the most might have Spanish as a language option. Unlike the European publication versions which would need to have 4 or 5 language options as a minimum. As we here in the Antipodes are classed as being in the same "region" as Europe we get all the European language options. Which is silly really because if we look at the language demographics in New Zealand then it's English first (naturally) followed by various Asian languages. So we should really be part of the Asian region for game language purposes. We have a large number of Japanese, Chinese and Korean students here and I'm sure they'd love to play games in their own language rather than having to choose between English, Dutch, Spanish, German and French. Fortunately for the PS3 gamer there's no region-locking of games so Asian students can get the their language version of games sent over from their home country and it will play on any PS3.

Kinda odd about German censorship laws. Our censorship laws on the surface look the same. It's illegal to supply a game (or movie) with a restricted rating to a minor. But that doesn't restrict what games can be purchased (either on disc or download) here. Adults are still free to obtain all those games without interferance from the govt. I think the only games that have actually been banned from being sold in NZ are those rape simulator games *shudders*.

Just wondering if internet pronography is banned in Germany, or is the double standard when it comes to games alive and well there too?

#144 The Anti-Targ

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:19 PM


Its an mmo thats going to rob heavily from the 8year old WoW. It will likely be soulless and generic with a few gimmics.

So in other words, it will feel like an Elder Scrolls game.


And the winner of this thread is...

#145 Rhom

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:31 PM

So that ticking clock thing on the SquareEnix site that had everyone worked up about the prospect of a new Star Ocean game...

Was a teaser for a Japan only browser based MMO.

/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

#146 Jon AS

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

Kinda odd about German censorship laws. Our censorship laws on the surface look the same. It's illegal to supply a game (or movie) with a restricted rating to a minor. But that doesn't restrict what games can be purchased (either on disc or download) here. Adults are still free to obtain all those games without interferance from the govt. I think the only games that have actually been banned from being sold in NZ are those rape simulator games *shudders*.


Basically games need to be certified by the USK (Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle, "Entertainment software self control") to be sold in Germany. If a game is certified 18+ it can only be sold if the age of the buyer can be verified in the process, so if you order through something like Amazon you have to have an ID ready when the package gets delivered.

If a game is deemed "dangerous" enough that the "Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons" is asked to take a closer look the game is usually in big trouble: if it is indeed found to be harmful*, it is put on the list of media harmful to young people which means it may not be sold openly, may not be displayed where it can be seen by minors, can only be sold in a shop (no mail order or download), can't be imported etc. This status lasts for at least 25 years.

So developers seem content to censor their own work to avoid that risk altogether, creating special versions for sale in Germany. Which creates the rather bizarre situation that it's still perfectly legal to import the uncensored versions, since they aren't on the list, despite the games not being certified by the German USK standard. Of course we could join the European PEGI certification system, but since that seems more lenient it would inevitably lead to less censorship (anything that has gotten an age certification cannot be put on The List) and we can't have that, can we?

Just wondering if internet pronography is banned in Germany, or is the double standard when it comes to games alive and well there too?


I don't think there is anything particularly restrictive about the laws governing internet pornography here, but I can't say I've ever looked into the matter. Considering that prostitution is legal to the point where it's allowed to advertise for it that would be rather surprising in any case.


*And as I said earlier: this decision is made by people who have only the vaguest idea about games in the first place, and seem to prefer to err on the side of censorship.

Edited by Jon AS, 12 December 2012 - 05:11 PM.


#147 Werthead

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:17 PM

On a separate note, 7 or 8 missions in on Far Cry 3 and I have to say, I'm enjoying myself. Even considering bumping it up from Adventurer, now that I'm starting to get something of a hang of it. Yes, the plot is ridiculous, but the voice acting's good and the feel of the open world is pretty amazing (even if tigers keep seeming to show up and cramp my style when I'm trying to recon enemy outposts). Despite my having started and rather liking Sleeping Dogs's environment, FC3's displaced it as I try and figure out where the hell the boars are (I still don't have even the most basic ammo pouch) or the best approach to getting to the various towers.


Far Cry 3 has actually become really great. It's not in any danger of displacing XCOM as my GOTY, but it's just ridiculously good fun. I especially like the way they clearly analysed what didn't work from FC2 and ditched it, and found those ideas that were good and expanded on them to make them work better. Having the allied tribe who aid you whilst out in the field, as well as random civilians wandering around, is a huge improvement from FC2 where every single person in the country wanted to kill you, even if you were working for them.

The game's treatment of wildlife and the whole crafting thing irritated me at the start, but has started to work quite well now. I cleared one outpost by releasing a tiger and then climbing up onto a nearby building and watching the carnage happily. This lasted until the flag-raising cinematic was over, when my allies showed up and the tiger attacked them, forcing me to jump off the building and take it down (which I did, but not before it killed two guys. Whoops). I also had a memorable moment whilst scouting an enemy camp and hearing a grunting noise behind me. I turned round to be clawed in the face by a black bear. Due to some careless weapon-toggling I eventually had to kill it with a missile launcher at uncomfortably close range. Also, the pyromaniacs who attack you with a blizzard of molotovs (half the time killing their own men in the process, due to the brilliant fire-spreading model) deserve some sort of recognition for both their stupidty and the fact that you can shoot their ammo, blowing up up as they're walking around.

Something I did find enormously helpful was putting aside a couple of hours to focus on hunting alone. Using the map, you can find the animals' hunting grounds fairly easily and it's simple enough to get what you need very early in the game. The only difficult ones are the sharks, mainly as others tend to show up whilst you're skinning them, resulting in some extremely hazardous moments as you try to scramble ashore or onto a boat in order to shoot them. Of course, focusing on hunting requires you to find and clear multiple radio towers, so you can end up chaining the different optional side-missions together (I've also combined them with outpost clearing, to give me more fast-travel and saving options across the map). Doing the optional stuff in FC3 is a hell of a lot of fun, as compared to FC2 where they were so terrible I simply stopped doing them after a while.

#148 Derfel Cadarn

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

The Secret World is fun. It deserves to do a lot better, as it makes the quests interesting rather than the lacklustre SWTOR/WoW type crap. The voice acting is generally good, with some recognisable voices (Weyoun, Quark and Tuvok from Star Trek ) to mention but 3. The dialogue is also pretty good. Graphics are excellent. I wish we could see more of London but looks excellent.

#149 Ran

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:33 PM

I was quite lucky when it comes to sharks. Found a nice gunboat that I took a little ways out to the water, and three sharks kindly obliged by swimming up to it one by one for me to shoot (they die surprisingly easily -- I had expected tiger-like toughness). Dove in, skinned, hurried back out, rinse and repeat -- not a problem.

But boars, damn it. My kingdom for some boars.

Edited by Ran, 12 December 2012 - 06:36 PM.


#150 Shryke

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:40 PM

See before ME3 I don't remember that being too prevalent. For ME2, all I remember was all the "Assemble Your Team!!!" ads, and they definitely seemed to be focused on the characters as the driving element. And for ME1, did anyone even know that there would definitely be a sequel when it came out; much less that character importing would be a thing? But then, yes, ME3 did make a big point about how previous choices mattered (although most of them just changed a few lines of dialog here and there; the only really, really big ones would be if Garrus or Tali had died in the SM in ME2).


It was a huge selling point. They mentioned it all the damn time.

It was part and parcel of the whole "big choices that echo across an epic trilogy" thing that was what they were selling the trilogy as.


But my point is, they did. There are plenty of choices in ME1 and ME2, but that didn't preclude ME3 from existing. And you don't have any choice in the very big plot points of ME1 or ME2, the ones comparable to the three from ME3 that I've mentioned. You have to blow up Saren's base at Virmire (so no early Krogan cure), you have to destroy Sovereign, you have to work for Cerberus, and you have to defeat the Collectors. There are no choices there and those are the only setting-altering points from ME1 or ME2 (the things that couldn't have just been glossed over). ME3 could've easily been the same way; lots of choices and variables that affect the narrative in various ways, but none that completely alter the basic foundations of the galaxy. There even could've been lots of different endings that separate enough to preclude an immediate sequel, but so long as there is a set form that the galaxy as a whole is in, its easy enough to set a sequel several hundred years down the road.

And that sequel is coming. And people who made setting-altering choices different from what is by necessity chosen as canon are going to be extremely disappointed. Bioware could've easily ensured that didn't happen and still made an amazing ME3. While people may go back and pick different options in ensuring playthroughs, most people consider their first playthrough to be their own personal canon one; and most people (at least judging by those on the offical forums) attempt the exact same outcomes at those big moments (who could betray Mordin first time through?). If the outcome is going to be the same anyway, what's it matter if there was a choice there are not?


ME1 and ME2 were designed with sequels in mind, thus the choices aren't as big. The end of ME3 is pretty much exactly like the end of Deus Ex. Both give you absolute huge choices about drastically changing the face of the future. They do this because it's the end of the game and you don't have to deal with the consequences, so they go all out. They are not designed with sequels in mind.

But there was a DE2. And people complained about it fudging over the ending(s) of the first game. (though it failed for completely different reasons) The same way people complain about how little your actions from previous games end up mattering in ME2 or ME3. Or they complain about how the open ended nature of who survives the end of ME2 means ME3's team is pathetic.

These things you talk about, glossing over choices you make and the like, these are fault. They are things people complain about and they are most definitely things Bioware is forced to do because playing out the consequences of big choices is expensive and hard, not undesirable.


Could they do it anyway? Sure. They could do anything they fucking want. They can retcon Commander Sheppard into a biomechanically-enchanced catfish with a lisp. Doesn't make it a good idea and doesn't make it line up with the games that came before or what they wanted to do at the time.

Edited by Shryke, 12 December 2012 - 07:43 PM.


#151 Shryke

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

Oh yeah, Ran, thanks for sending the key but I'm having a bitch of a time getting it to work. It's giving me some "promo code invalid" bullshit or something.

I'll be free saturday and dick around and try to get it to work some more. If not, I'll just send it back your way and ye can do with it as ye please.

#152 Kosciuszko

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:06 PM

The Secret World is fun. It deserves to do a lot better, as it makes the quests interesting rather than the lacklustre SWTOR/WoW type crap. The voice acting is generally good, with some recognisable voices (Weyoun, Quark and Tuvok from Star Trek ) to mention but 3. The dialogue is also pretty good. Graphics are excellent. I wish we could see more of London but looks excellent.


This is true. The Secret World is probably my favorite release of 2012 (except maybe Xcom). It manages to combine a Guild Wars 2 system that allows you to better choose and define your role, a sort of City of Heroes aesthetic with the cosmetic outfits, and I feel like it has a touch of that old Everquest feel to it through its good community and the difficulty (not grindy so much as a sense of challenge when I've played when compared to GW2 or WoW; like things can and will actually kill you if you aren't paying attention). Not to mention the world is pretty awesome. I can't wait to get back into it.

With this move on the Secret World, I'd suggest a lot more people to try it out.

Edited by Kosciuszko, 12 December 2012 - 08:09 PM.


#153 ShowOverBooks

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:40 PM

anyone familiar with MAME? of course it can't be compared to modern games, but I still like it! it makes me remember about when I was a child and I used to spend all my money playing arcade games!
my favourite MAME games are WWF Superstars, Final Fight, Pang 3 and WIllow!
yours?


YES! I was all over MAME the first couple of years I was online. I loved some of the old arcade games like Galaga.

#154 Merentha

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

Yes, but Bethesda are making Fallout 4 first (with the Skyrim engine by the sound of it).

Damn it.

edit: How moddable is Far Cry 3? Because some of the staying power of the Stalker series, for me, comes from some of the awesome rebalance mods. Misery, in particular, can just make the game...miserable. In a good way. Sometimes. It certainly makes it more unique, and if I can tweak FC3 in some ways (I like the sound of clearing outposts, but I'd like it if the enemy would occasionally take them back, too) I'd be more interested in picking it up.

Edited by Merentha, 12 December 2012 - 10:56 PM.


#155 Tyrellius

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:10 PM

Fuck me - got 5 copies of Dota2 to give away if anyone interested.

Tyrellius_Sylvanas

#156 The Anti-Targ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:51 AM

And here it is.

Full development on BioWare's next Mass Effect game only just started a month or so ago, but it sounds like the studio is already aiming for a Late 2014 to mid-2015 release. Are you feeling patient?
While talking to Gamer Syndrome, Mass Effect 3 producer Mike Gamble said that the next Mass Effect game would be coming in, "Late 2014 to mid-2015. I honestly can't tell you an exact because full development on the game started a month or two ago."
Gamble also stated, "BioWare Montreal is a great studio and they did fantastic with the multiplayer for Mass Effect 3, so fans should know the series is in good hands. The game isn’t far along in development so I can’t comment on specifics because they isn’t any yet, Frostbite 2 is a really good game engine that we are also using on Dragon Age 3...You’ll hear more about the new Mass Effect game [next year] in 2013."
We'd love to hear more specifics, but since they just started working on the game, we'll take these crumbs.


http://www.joystiq.c...w-through-2015/

#157 Tony Soprano

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

Has anyone tried the Firefall beta?

The game looks cool, and it seems like a lot of fun. I just signed up for the beta, hopefully I'll get my Beta Key soon.

#158 Scipio Africanus

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

Looking into it further, it seems that officially there is no uncut version of Saints Row - The Third available for the German market. Which means that the company went to the trouble of self-censorship just to appease our fucked up youth protectors, people who generally do not play these games themselves but have playtesters report to them and base their decisions on that.


Germany has one of the strictest censor laws when it comes to games. Didn't C&C have to change the colour of blood to green (or replace the soldiers with robots) or something, years and years ago?

Glad I don't live there from a gaming point of view.

Been loading up old MTW2 (after finding out crusader kings 2 was never released in my country) and I had forgotten how much fun that was.

But it'll be FC3 and Dishonoured after christmas I suspect.

#159 ShowOverBooks

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:33 AM

This is true. The Secret World is probably my favorite release of 2012 (except maybe Xcom). It manages to combine a Guild Wars 2 system that allows you to better choose and define your role, a sort of City of Heroes aesthetic with the cosmetic outfits, and I feel like it has a touch of that old Everquest feel to it through its good community and the difficulty (not grindy so much as a sense of challenge when I've played when compared to GW2 or WoW; like things can and will actually kill you if you aren't paying attention). Not to mention the world is pretty awesome. I can't wait to get back into it.

With this move on the Secret World, I'd suggest a lot more people to try it out.

I wouldn't. I bought it at release. It wasn't good.

Adding a bunch of freebie players and putting in cash roadblocks won't improve it.

Edited by ShowOverBooks, 13 December 2012 - 08:34 AM.


#160 Leviathan I

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:34 AM

Yet another amazing trailer for Metro: Last Light. This game is going to be so good. Also apparently you can get a free copy of Metro 2033 (that's what it says at the end of the trailer anyway). So if you don't know about Metro 2033 or Last Light, watch the trailer and get a free game (: