The Jon Snow ReRead Project!

[Katsa]

First and foremost, I'd like to thank Butterbumps, Ragnorak and Lummel for embarking on this project. Jon and Dany are my favourite characters after Cat, so I definitely will be following this re-read project closely. You guys are awesome.

(Psst, Butterbumps. I hope you haven't killed the Dany re-read project.)

I disagree with this analysis, The only reason Jon acted the way he did was because he was drunk and not immature, and he hasn't made his status as a bastard his strength yet, he still has a lot to learn but Jon is mature enough to listen to other peoples advice as we know from later chapters.

We learn that Daeron Targaryen, the “Young Dragon,” is one of Jon’s heroes: “A conquest that lasted a summer,” his uncle pointed out. “Your Boy King lost ten thousand men taking the place, and another fifty trying to hold it. Someone should have told him that war isn’t a game.” He took another sip of wine. “Also,” he said, wiping his mouth, “Daeren Targaryen was only eighteen when he died. Or have you forgotten that part?”

Personally, I have always thought that Jon's admiration for Daeron Targaryen is a reflection of his immaturity and inexperience/naivete. In this chapter, he was shown to make both right and wrong judgements about the Lannisters. He had, in his head, an image of what a king should look like, thought of Myrcella as insipid (I sense that he was jealous of Robb here lol) and thought that Tyrion was ugly. (Not that I am trying to imply that Jon is a shallow person or anything like that because we later see him develop some form of respect for Tyrion, despite his physical appearance.)

In this chapter, Jon comes across as a naive, sweet summer child who conflates true achievement with superficial ones like Daeron "conquering" Dorne. He wants to be recognised for his abilities/merit and earn some form of honour. We know that Jon, in future chapters/books, grows out of this--sacrifices honour and tainting his own name for duty etc. (And thank god because Daeron I have always come across, to me, as a little short-sighted and idiotic.) We also know from Dany's future chapters that conquest, alone, can be empty. (Didn't mean to bring up future chapters... just wanted to highlight the difference between the Jon we have in this chapter and the significance of him idolising Daeron I.)

Additionally, I've also read a post (can't remember by who) which highlights between Jon's idol, The Young Dragon, and his brother, The Young Wolf. I think it was in this thread, if any of you are interested.

I find that the tone of Jon’s character stands in strong contrast to the image we saw through Bran’s eyes in the previous chapter. Where Jon had appeared solemn, sober, observant and dignified, here Jon is literally drunk, impulsive, emotional and rather undignified. The difference in the setting undoubtedly accounts for part of this tone change; a ribald feast versus a solemn lesson in justice. Also of import is the difference in POV; where Jon is Bran’s big brother and thus cast with mature reverence, Jon’s POV really puts into perspective just how young and still immature the boy truly is.

I think we will see this a lot in future chapters as well. Jon does come across as this confident (perhaps overly so) badass to his peers, younger siblings or juniors/inferiors but is full of doubt in his own head.

Benjen believes that Jon is too young to make the choice to give up so much: “The Night’s Watch is a sworn brotherhood. We have no families. None of us will ever father sons. Our wife is duty. Our mistress is honor…You are a boy of 14. Not until you have known a woman, you cannot understand what you would be giving up.” Benjen thoroughly insists that vows should only be spoken when the true price known: “If you knew what the oath would cost you, you might be less eager to pay the price, son.”

Jon reaches a breaking point when Benjen counsels him to “father a few bastards of [his] own” before making the choice. Before realizing the escalation, Jon loudly states that he will “never father a bastard,” creating a scene that draws considerable attention. The hall was described as irritatingly smoky throughout the chapter, threatening to induce his tears, and now they finally come as he runs “half blind” out of the hall. Alone outside, he wipes his tears, “furious that he had let them fall.”

I don't know if this is off-topic, since this isn't a Benjen thread, but Uncle Benjen's advise to Jon come across to me as extremely personal; i.e. something Benjen wished someone had given him before he signed up for the Night's Watch. I am assuming he was around Jon's age when he took the black as well. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

Once again, thank for starting this project. :)

[Fire Eater]

Another great thread butterbumps!

At least this thread won't be as dead as the Cersei one.

Tyrion gives Jon some good advice, when Jon counters that Tyrion is a trueborn son, Tyrion replies "All dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes." Tyrion was born deformed, and had to live with that and a pretty boy brother, Jaime, to be constantly compared to. Tyrion and Jon approach their exclusion from the traditional honor culture in different ways.

Dan Haggard:

Because combat is the arbiter of honour, Tyrion is completely ill-suited to participate in an honour culture.So he develops a shield of wits and reason to protect himself in his day to day life. Both emotionally and intellectually he is completely estranged from the community in which he is situated.

It could be argued that Tyrion’s rejection of honour culture – his adoption of reason and the lewd – is a direct consequence of his estrangement. So while for most a loss of honour causes one to be estranged from the community, for Tyrion the estrangement from his community has led to a rejection of the concept of honour.

An interesting comparison can be made with Jon Snow. Snow is also an outcast, yet he does not reject the honour culture in the way that Tyrion does. This is probably because of the two key differences between the two characters. Jon is still loved by his father and most of the rest of his family (with the exception of Catelyn) and he is a very good swordsman. He is able to act honourably, even if his bastard status block him from being honourable in the eyes of those around him. Tyrion on the other hand is badly treated by his family and is not capable of participating in combat.

I've posted this piece of foreshadowing several times before, but I think it fits here for this chapter.

and watched his direwolf devour the chicken.

Dogs moved between the tables, trailing after serving girls. One of them, a black mongrel bitch with yellow eyes, caught a scent of the chicken. She stopped and edged under the bench to get a share. Jon watched the confrontation. The bitch growled low in her throat and moved closer. Ghost looked up, silent, and fixed the dog with those hot red eyes. The bitch snapped an angry challenge. She was three times the size of the direwolf pup. Ghost did not move. He stood over his prize and opened his mouth, baring his fangs. The bitch tensed, barked again, then thought better of this fight. She turned and slunk away, with one last defiant snap to save her pride.

"Queen Cersei and Queen Margaery are fighting over the little king like two bitches with a chicken bone"

Cersei is a Baratheon by marriage so her colors are by tradition the Baratheon house colors: black and gold (yellow). It may be that Jon will come to claim the throne that is being held by Cersei, and like the bitch, Cersei will know the war is lost for her, but will pull one last stunt before she dies to hollow out the victory for Jon's side, akin to when she planned to have Sansa killed at the BoBW if KL fell so that the Starks would take no joy in the Lannisters' fall. She will burn down KL just to protect her pride in defeat.

[Boy and Girl Wadish]

Maybe something like this would happen if Jon were to meet Rickon again, Him urging Rickon on to the top.

That's actually a very nice thought.

[butterbumps!]

Whether is the product of his drunken state I find it very interesting that Jon thinks to himself that Jaime is exactly as a king should look like right after acknowledging that people refer to him as kingslayer behind his back. Even though Jon is aware that Jaime's infamous reputation he fails to see past Jaime's power trappings and not only does he sees him only as "the Lion of Lannister" but Jaime becomes the measure he thinks a king should be! He actually reminds me of Sansa at this point. Jon's ideas of what a king should look like are not a far cry from Sansa's ideas of what knights ought to look like. Both their ideas are as clouded as Winterfell's long hall. And how very different from the Jon that will later accurately identify power trappings from what they are!

I agree with this, and the Sansa parallel is quite relevant. I think part of Jon's assessment stems from his great disappointment with Robert, who really has gone to seed and behaves somewhat ignobly at the feast. I wonder, too, if this perhaps operates as a device to plant a more positive hint about Jaime very early on, given that Jaime quickly becomes a "villain" for throwing Bran, then increasingly rounds out as more sympathetic and "honorable" as the story progresses. I mean, I wonder if there's some early truth here; I think the assessment that Jaime looks a king is superficial as you say, but I think Jon's mildness in his assessment is interesting in light of his later feelings toward Jaime in relation to our feelings toward him.

(btw, I love your signature. Borroq's "pig army" has given me endless fodder)

Jon's comment "Don't look away" makes for an interesting parallel to Dany's "If I look back I'm lost" where one requires Bran to watch, observe, learn and take responsibility while "If I look back I'm lost" requires Dany to keep moving forward in spite of everything. Also does anybody find it odd that when Jon thinks that Jaime looks like a king that Jaime is wearing Rhaegar's colors?

In this chapter, Jon comes across as a naive, sweet summer child who conflates true achievement with superficial ones like Daeron "conquering" Dorne. He wants to be recognised for his abilities/merit and earn some form of honour. We know that Jon, in future chapters/books, grows out of this--sacrifices honour and tainting his own name for duty etc. (And thank god because Daeron I have always come across, to me, as a little short-sighted and idiotic.) We also know from Dany's future chapters that conquest, alone, can be empty. (Didn't mean to bring up future chapters... just wanted to highlight the difference between the Jon we have in this chapter and the significance of him idolising Daeron I.)

Good catch on the fact that Jaime is wearing Targ colors when Jon thinks he looked a king. I do think the Rhaegar parallel is intentional, as I don't think Jaime's associated with those colors again (normally, it's gold, red and white). Also, I think the observation that Jon's idolization of the "Young Dragon" as an indication of a boy's bravado is spot on.

There's often debate about how Jon (and other Starks) might feel about the Targs, and how Jon in particular might feel toward R+L. I don't want to turn this into such a debate, but I do think it's significant that Jon doesn't appear to hold any grudges toward House Targaryen, and in fact, hero-worships one. The Jaime-Rhaegar parallel also reinforces the possibility that Jon could feel a kind of admiration for Rhaegar later on (but this says nothing about his feelings wrt having his identity upended by learning he's not Ned's son).

(oh, and Katsa, the Dany project is still on, but there were some administrative delays with the essays.)

Fire Eater-- thanks for the Tyrion-Jon honor comparison, and nice catch on the dog symbolism. It's interesting too that it's "honeyed" chicken the dog and wolf fight over, given all the other associations of honeyed food products with lies/ treachery by one of the parties partaking in the meal.

[Lady Arya's Song]

Thank you Butterbumps and everyone for starting a Jon reread.

Someone else mentioned the Targ colors Jaimie is wearing and how this perhaps could be subtle foreshadowing of Jon's colors which I found intriguing when I first read the book. I wondered at the time why Jaimie was not wearing his white armour and white king's guard cloak. Was this normal for a king's guard to not wear their colors. If so then this was Martin's way of subtly showing the reader that Jon is associated with Targ colors. Just my opinion on that.

Rickon stopping by Jon's place at the table and Jon needing to encourage him to continue onward touched me emotionally when I first read this chapter. I immediately pictured a wedding scene where the small ring bearer boy stops by a trusted and loved older relative perhaps because they are overwhelmed by all the faces staring at them. How many of us have seen this act play out..the little ring boy bursts into tears half way down the aisle. Almost as if the small one is looking for a face to give them support to continue without bursting into tears. It is subtle I know but that was the emotional sense that I experienced when reading that part of the POV.

Also Rickon might also be Martin's subtle way of expressing that in a very small child's eye he somehow is expressing the idea of Why is my big brother Jon not walking with us?

Rickon is acknowledging Jon as part of the pack. He has not yet learned the social norms that have been learned by the older Stark children regarding bastards.

Also on the direwolf and the black bitch and the honeyed chicken bone. I have wondered if this might not be foreshadowing of a future conflict between Barbrey Dustin whose colors are also black and yellow for WF and the north. What I found curious about this part of the POV is that Jon only sits watching...the conflict is between the black bitch and the white wolf. Jon does not interfere between the two animals..he only watches. This reminded me of the black tom in the Red Keep who snatched the capon out of king Robert's hand and is known as the true king of the castle...It is only speculation on my part but I have wondered if this interplay between the white mute direwolf with the red eyes who silently bares his teeth are the old gods versus some darker force which the black bitch represents.

I loved all the posts everyone has contributed and really looking forward to this thread.

[The guy from the Vale]

Another one of your awesome reread thread, bumps? Three cheers for ya!

To ramble off along the "Jaime looking like a king"-dynamic, we have a multitude of characters telling us that basically all the Lannisters look that part. Jon tells us Jaime (clad in Targ colors) looks like a king, and that Tyrion's shadow, at least, stands as tall as a king. Stannis reminisces about Tywin looking like a king.

The interesting thing here is that while the Lannisters look like kings, they aren't, at least not any more. Even more so, the reverse is basically the Ned's conclusion in the second half of AGoT: If Joff looks like a Lannister, he ain't no king!

On the other hand, there's the entire speculation about which of Joanna's children are Tywin's and which are Aerys'. I'm... not particularly fond of that debate, but it sure is interesting that the seeds for these particular fan theories are already planted in these first few chapters.

[Jslay427]

I look forward to reading your reviews every week. Perhaps after your finished with all of Jon's chapters you can go over other characters pov's, like Theon, King of Salt and Rock, son of the sea wind and Lord Reaper of Pyke. His transformation would be interesting to review.

[Manderlay]

Thank you Butterbumps and everyone for starting a Jon reread.

Someone else mentioned the Targ colors Jaimie is wearing and how this perhaps could be subtle foreshadowing of Jon's colors which I found intriguing when I first read the book. I wondered at the time why Jaimie was not wearing his white armour and white king's guard cloak. Was this normal for a king's guard to not wear their colors. If so then this was Martin's way of subtly showing the reader that Jon is associated with Targ colors. Just my opinion on that.

Rickon stopping by Jon's place at the table and Jon needing to encourage him to continue onward touched me emotionally when I first read this chapter. I immediately pictured a wedding scene where the small ring bearer boy stops by a trusted and loved older relative perhaps because they are overwhelmed by all the faces staring at them. How many of us have seen this act play out..the little ring boy bursts into tears half way down the aisle. Almost as if the small one is looking for a face to give them support to continue without bursting into tears. It is subtle I know but that was the emotional sense that I experienced when reading that part of the POV.

Also Rickon might also be Martin's subtle way of expressing that in a very small child's eye he somehow is expressing the idea of Why is my big brother Jon not walking with us?

Rickon is acknowledging Jon as part of the pack. He has not yet learned the social norms that have been learned by the older Stark children regarding bastards.

This reminded me of the black tom in the Red Keep who snatched the capon out of king Robert's hand and is known as the true king of the castle...

I had forgotten what Jamie was wearing, I always thought he would be in his white cloak but it seems they wear their house colors for special occasions and Lannister colours have always been close to Targaryen colours,

I agree with your assessment of rickon & Jon and I liked that as well when I read it,

As for the black tom, it took the capon from Tywin's hands and the court had never seen Robert laugh so hard :laugh:

Another one of your awesome reread thread, bumps? Three cheers for ya!

To ramble off along the "Jaime looking like a king"-dynamic, we have a multitude of characters telling us that basically all the Lannisters look that part. Jon tells us Jaime (clad in Targ colors) looks like a king, and that Tyrion's shadow, at least, stands as tall as a king. Stannis reminisces about Tywin looking like a king.

The interesting thing here is that while the Lannisters look like kings, they aren't, at least not any more. Even more so, the reverse is basically the Ned's conclusion in the second half of AGoT: If Joff looks like a Lannister, he ain't no king!

On the other hand, there's the entire speculation about which of Joanna's children are Tywin's and which are Aerys'. I'm... not particularly fond of that debate, but it sure is interesting that the seeds for these particular fan theories are already planted in these first few chapters.

Yup, the speculation starts from the first chapter

“All dwarfs are bastards in their father’s eyes.”

“You are your mother’s trueborn son of Lannister.”

“Am I?” the dwarf replied, sardonic. “Do tell my lord father. My mother died birthing me, and he’s never been sure.”

[butterbumps!]

Hmm. I think calling the Lannister-Targ parallels "speculation planting" is a bit misleading in terms of the A+J debate just mentioned. I don't want to get the topic off track with too much discussion on this, but I also think the notion of this "speculation" should be addressed.

There's quite a few times that a Lannister-Targaryen parallel is made throughout the series; offhand, I can think of Tywin's being thought of as more kingly than Aerys, Cersei's dual attraction to Jaime and Rhaegar, the similar coloring and beauty, Cersei-Jaime incest, and Jaime-Rhaegar comparisons. None of these parallels should be taken as "speculation" that A+J happened, in my opinion, because there's a much deeper significance to drawing these family connections.

Martin employs the technique of foil quite frequently as part of his craft. Already by Jon I, there's been a Ned-Jon, Robert-Rhaegar, Jaime-Rhaegar, Jaime-Robert, Tyrion-Jon, Tyrion-Jaime planted. Saying that the Jaime-Rhaegar parallel here plants Targ speculation is asking the wrong question.

One of the big questions Martin seems to want us to ask throughout the series is "what does a king truly look like?" We will be reminded numerously that those who wear the crown often do not live up to the task of ruling, and that there are some who appear worthy of the honor, but for some reason do not hold the power. Particular to the Lannisters, we're going to be frequently reminded that they hold the most money, yet not the crown. Each of the major families shows us an alternate perspective of power construction (broadly speaking), and the interplay between these facets (force, honor, wealth, justice) serves to deconstruct the in-universe, as well as our own, notions of power, ruling and leadership. The adjacency and parallels between Lannister and Targaryen are really there to make apparent the differences between the Houses and thereby contribute to the largest associated themes rather than serve as a foundation from which to speculate on illicit connections. For example, when Jaime complains that the Targs could engage in incest without issue, we're not meant to question whether they could be Targs, but rather, question the practice of incest categorically as well as why a particular family ought to have the right to operate above the law.

At a more microcosmic scale, the Jaime-Rhaegar parallel helps reveal character traits rather than a conspiracy. I tend to think the foil operates here using Jaime as a proxy for Rhaegar for the sake of R+L, but there will be more Jaime-Rhaegar parallels as the series progresses. Rhaegar is the man Cersei believes would have enabled her to forget about Jaime, implying that even to Cersei, Jaime is less appealing than the other, perhaps even a pale or corrupted imitation in her eyes. So again, I feel the differences are more important than the fact that a parallel is drawn.

Anyway, I do think a Lannister-Targ parallel is purposely drawn early in the series, but this parallel is not the basis for speculations about Lannister parentage.

[The guy from the Vale]

Just so we don't misunderstand each other, bumps!... we're on the same page here. All I'm really saying, I guess, is that only looking at these few chapters, I can see where the speculation is coming from, even though I don't see the relevance of this theory playing out. Tywin is dead, after all. But yes, seeing the Lannisters as one way of exerting power while comparing them to the Targs, Starks and Baratheon is the impression I had with these comparisons, too.

[SeanF]

Re: Jon discussing the "perks" of bastardy. I didn't interpret these parts as Jon actually enjoying getting drunk with the serving folk and not having to sit with the boring royal family. I thought he was being sort of bitterly sarcastic, for lack of a better description. I think the reason he was getting so drunk in the first place, is because he felt excluded and upset. so he got plastered, all the while saying "see, I don't need these people, look how much FUN I'm having". as if he was trying to convince himself that not only did he not care, he enjoyed it.

I think you can read it that way, although Jon has been seated with young nobles, rather than servants. He's been put in a place of honour, if not the top table.

BTW, thank you very much to Butterbumps for the re-read.

[butterbumps!]

Just so we don't misunderstand each other, bumps!... we're on the same page here. All I'm really saying, I guess, is that only looking at these few chapters, I can see where the speculation is coming from, even though I don't see the relevance of this theory playing out. Tywin is dead, after all. But yes, seeing the Lannisters as one way of exerting power while comparing them to the Targs, Starks and Baratheon is the impression I had with these comparisons, too.

oh, lol, of course. Sorry, I didn't think I disagreed with anyone, and definitely not with what you'd said. I've been fighting the A+J battle a lot lately, so I felt an odd sense to duty (or addictive compulsion?) to try to clarify how I thought the parallel operated within the story. We're on the same page, lol.

[SeanF]

Butterbumps, we're initially encouraged to be very sympathetic to Jon, in these, and later chapters, only for Martin then to subvert this, by showing Jon being pretty petulant at the Wall,(eg throwing a strop when he "only" gets the job of being Steward to the Lord Commander).

Do you think we're then meant to look back on these earlier chapters and think "actually, Jon didn't really have much to complain about at all?"

[The Sleeper]

To go off a bit on the tangent of the Lannister-Targaryen parallels raised by many here:

I think the Lannisters are suffering from Targ envy as they could not reconcile with the fact that the Targs as a family stood above them. From Tywin's relationship with Aerys, Cersei and Jamie practicing incest and Tyrion's fondness for dragons to finally placing a king on the Iron Throne that would probably become Aerys's true successor the Targaryens stand as what the Lannisters believe and want themselves to be.

[butterbumps!]

Butterbumps, we're initially encouraged to be very sympathetic to Jon, in these, and later chapters, only for Martin then to subvert this, by showing Jon being pretty petulant at the Wall,(eg throwing a strop when he "only" gets the job of being Steward to the Lord Commander).

Do you think we're then meant to look back on these earlier chapters and think "actually, Jon didn't really have much to complain about at all?"

I kind of do. There's something very similar that happens with Dany and Tyrion as well. In all three cases, I think the dominant element that comes through on first impression is unfair treatment and oppression of each character. Going back to Dany's first chapter, the oppression and mistreatment are certainly there, but then you notice that her life had some very charmed and dreamlike aspects as well (enviable beauty, indulgence by hosts, born a princess). Similarly with Tyrion, his introduction as the "good Lannister" by virtue of his rejection and exclusion by them due to his deformity creates a kind of sympathy bubble, where you don't realize how outrageously privileged he is until a lot later.

I guess, the way we're introduced to these protagonists as objects of oppression evokes immediate sympathy from the reader. I don't think that the oppression in any of these cases is non-existent, but I think it's been crafted to seem like a dominant element purposely in order to align the reader's sympathies (which becomes really interesting when the reader is faced with these characters' feelings on their oppressors and sympathies start conflicting). I think a byproduct of this is a tendency to gloss over some of the more negative aspects that are in place in their arcs early on, but I do think we're supposed to pick up on it.

As an aside, what's really interesting to me is that for Jon, Dany and Tyrion, the overstated oppressive aspects, while not entirely in their control, do become these character's self-imposed "prisons:" dwarfism and paternity for Tyrion, Bastardy and identity for Jon, the truth about the Rebellion and the right of rule for Dany.

So, I don't think Jon "had it so bad," but I really hesitate to make that assertion because the treatment of bastards is pretty oppressive. I wonder if a productive way to look at it is less about the degree of oppression, but the way Jon handles both privilege and oppression instead. I think maybe what we look back on is the evolution of how he handles adversity, from petulant to significantly more dignified later.

But others might have better thoughts on this subject...

[Melonica Stormborn]

Bran I and Jon I not only illustrated through the situations how Jon is a keen observer or even a good judge of character, specific validation came from other characters other than Jon (who is already selling his observational skills himself). Bran points out that Jon's deep gray eyes see almost everything, Benjen says almost the same thing. At this point we should be able to conclude that Jon is a trustworthy POV. I think this is important because down the road we see Jon doing things that people around him don't exactly agree to or understand, and we are able to side with Jon because we know that he sees things other people don't as in the case of the wildlings or even making Satin his steward.

His observations also set the tone on how we see some characters. He was already calling Theon an ass on Bran I and we all know how that went. I really didn't put much thought on his description of Jaime and Robert at first, and always saw the easy explanation: Jaime is in physically good shape and looking very regal, while Robert did not grow into his role as king. Given all that's happened since, that observation is all the more powerful and deeper now.

Very noticeable as well in both Bran I and Jon I were Robb and Jon being described as somewhat polar opposites. Bran goes on to cite physical differences and Jon brings up the sword and lance comparison. Less superficially, Robb sees courage in the deserter beheaded by Ned and Jon sees fear. Although Ned says that a man can only be brave when he is afraid, I find this to be an indication that Jon may be more mature and can see the big picture (case in point, Jon managed to leave Ygritte, Robb chose to marry Jeyne Westerling). Fear comes before bravery, not the other way around. It also shows, though, that the two have skills that would have complemented each other had they fought together.

[SeanF]

Thanks. I agree totally about Tyrion's privileges. Dany is different IMO, in that I think there really were times, both before coming to Pentos, and after her marriage to Drogo, when she really did experience poverty. For me, the trick Martin plays with Dany (and Tyrion too) is to get us to forgive the morally questionable things they do, due to first having made them very sympathetic. They're also, in my view, the two most unreliable narrators in the series.

[coil]

I'm glad to be able to read this thread from the very start, it's going to be a fun ride!

Thanks for all the good work, everyone!

Theguyfromthevale points out something I've never noticed, namely all Lannisters looking like kings (I mean, even Joffrey could look and act like a king when in the mood:)).

It's also very interesting to notice how POVs dynamics are important: Bran thinks of Jon as mature and wise, while his bastard brother is still a teen - although very smart. I picked this important element only during ACoK, in my very first read...

I'd like to point out a couple of things that may be useful or not, just because I liked them while rereading the chapter.

-There's a bard singing in Winterfell's hall.

While I shouldn't point out future elements of the story, it's important to notice how Jon doesn't really care about songs, unlike many other characters: he notices there's a bard, but doesn't do anything to go there and listen... and that considering that bards at Winterfell are extremely rare.

He also drinks a lot, but it doesn't look like he sings or likes singing.

-Jon seems to dislike Myrcella and Joffrey, without any apparent reason: sure, Joffrey may look a little irriverent but it's not like he has done something bad, actually.

But what about Tommen?

Tommen looks plump and with hair longer than his sister's, also he and Arya don't seem to interact.

To me it looks like he's a bit jealous, since Robb seems to like Myrcella and probably Sansa is already liking Joffrey.

Tommen instead isn't dangerous since he looks "more girly" than Arya itself, so he isn't a menace!

-Summer wine for a child of summer

The hall is full of colours (namely white, gold and blue, plus a lot of smoke) and people, everyone is eating and there's a merry feast all around.

I'll wait for other meals of Jon during the series to see if there's a possible pattern (no idea about that... but since it's a reread maybe we can notice something! GRRM puts a lot of emphasys on food, may there's something around even in Jon's chapters.). Up until now, Jon doesn't eat but only drinks - Summer Wine, nothing else - and the one eating chicken meat is Ghost.

[Winterfellian]

(btw, I love your signature. Borroq's "pig army" has given me endless fodder)

Thanks! Hopefully when someone's about to start the old "Jon's subordinates were incredibly capable and smart argument" they'll see it, rethink it and save myself countless hours of arguing ;)

On Theon and Jon Snow

I think that in Bran’s first chapter is easy to determine how different Robb and Jon are from each other, as Melonica notes. But I think that at first read this prevents us to go deeper into another dynamic, that of Theon and Jon (at least it was for me).

Bran introduces us from the eyes of a younger brother to the dynamics and characteristic of these two young men, who grew up together and yet are so different from one another. They are both cast outs with not true place at WF where their surnames mark them as different. Even Bran’s childish mind understands the distinction- Theon is his father’s ward whereas Jon is his bastard half brother.

I think the way they are introduced indicates the readers that Theon and Jon are something of a dark mirror of each other, alike and yet very different. While Jon stands by his younger brother and offers advice Theon deliberately kicks the head of the dead man; Theon is shocked by the size of the dead direwolf and calls him a freak while Jon calmly tells him is a direwolf; Theon is the first to offer to kill the direwolf pups while Jon is the one who saves them. In other words Theon is being set up as Jon’s antagonist.

I like how differently Theon and Jon process their inability to fit in. While Theon faces the world with a mask of aloofness and mockery Jon’s towards himself. Tyrion even notes in the future that Jon’s face is one that gives nothing away.

Interestingly enough, these two outsiders find their way into positions of power and I think this early Bran chapter sets the tone for the respective leadership styles they both adopt. Theon’s smiles and charismatic demeanor didn’t aid or inspire Bran to deal with the beheading nor did they made Theon an example to follow in the same way he was unable to inspire true loyalty or even subordination among his own men later on because of this smiling façade he presents to the world. Jon chooses to use his experience as old hand at justice to help his brother through the trial and lead him by example with quiet and solemn manners and a few words. And later on, leading by example is something Jon keeps very much in mind.

[Mladen]

OK, now I will focus on Jon I chapter

From the very beginning of this chapter, Jon draws a clear line between himself and his siblings, and the position where he is and where they are. Jon is without any doubt hurt by this new arrangement, but finds comfort in drinking, stories and company that is far interesting than royal offspring. The portrayal of Jon is clearly differentiated from what we saw in Bran`s POV. For, in this one, Jon is also a child. Unlike Bran`s chapter where he is solemn and dignified, here he`s anything but. And that`s quite normal. In Bran`s POv, Jon is watched through the eyes of his little brother who idolizes him. Here, he is just a boy left out on a bench as reminder he`s not worthy of royal company.

But the theme of watching is also present here. As Jon said to Bran `don`t look away`, he carefully watches the people on the feast. And he sees right through them. Queen is cold, King is disappointment, something`s wrong with Joffrey and Sansa is radiant, and Kingslayer is regal. The interesting that the word Kingslayer is used only in one chapter before this one. In Dany`s. Not Eddard nor Catelyn reffered to Jaime as KIngslayer, than as the Queen`s brother, but for those who ae bound by destiny with the title Kingslayer, Jaime is that - a knight who broke his vows and killed his King.

Interestingly, Young Dragon is Jon`s favorite hero. Someone who died at the age of 18. Now, Jon was born in 283 in Dorne, and in the time of his `death` the year is approximately 301, which means Jon `died` also at the age of 18. A very distinctive parallel between Targaren King and Jon.

I will never father a bastard. What a great choice of words. Jon never said he won`t have children, no, he said he will never father a bastard. Although, normally, we could assume that Jon meant children, but we can use this as forshadowing that one day Jon`s path will be much different than it`s now,

When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.

Jon, Maester Aemon, Moqorro. They all understand that Tyrion is dwarf, but each and every one of them saw his shadow. And what a giant shadow it is. We can say that importance of Tyrion`s shadow started here, but it`s clear that his shadow is something we`ll have to look after. After all, Aegon`s doings in DWD are nothing but shadow of Tyrion`s game.

Butterbumps, once more, congratulations on wonderful thread, and wonderful analysis.