three-eyed monkey

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About three-eyed monkey

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    Spanker of one-eyed monkey.

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    ASoIaF, LotR, Dune, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, The Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies, Fight Club, 1984, Watchmen, Heart of Darkness, Brave New World, A Picture of Dorian Gray, I Am Legend, The Road, Cloud Atlas, and ASoIaF.

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  1. An argument supporting Mance wrote the Pink Letter

    GRRM said Theon I TWoW took place before some of the events at the end of ADwD. We know it took place after Asha's last chapter, and there is not really any other chapter at the end of ADwD that it is relevant to. We also know that Theon I, and indeed the Battles of Ice and Fire, were initially meant to be part of ADwD but got bumped because of size. I'm not sure if it has ever been clarified where those bumped chapters would have fit into the original order of chapters. Presumably Jon XIII was always intended to be Jon's last chapter in ADwD, and we can take it that Asha's last chapter was not meant to be the last chapter from the Stannis arc in ADwD, so it is very possible that we would have gotten more from the Stannis camp, such as Theon I TWoW, before we got Jon's final chapter.
  2. Stannis wrote the Pink Letter

    @The Fattest Leech Hey, thanks. I gotta check your thread out. I found JQC's thread, her analysis is always great. Gimme a chance to catch up on your thread and I'll hit you back. I'm only starting to get my head around the Val stuff. But the 'Wildling Princess" is clearly relevant to the pink letter mystery, and relevant to Stannis too.
  3. Ramsay wrote the pink letter

    There is a logical reason it would have entered GRRM's mind, and that is if he was writing the letter as a forgery and leaving clues to that regard, which I believe is the case. GRRM is great at leaving clues in my opinion, even if the great man himself thinks he got in wrong with the books' central mystery. Often mystery writers say that the hardest part of designing a mystery is designing the clues. But my point is that clues are designed and if we examine them we can see that design. GRRM could have given Ramsay any type of hand writing. He made a decision to give him a large spiky hand, and I think it is a good choice because it reflects Ramsay's character in a way. Ramsay's hand is described by both Jon and Asha in what is a purposeful set up of Ramsay's hand writing, because like most set ups it is repeated at least once to strengthen the association in the reader's mind. Spiky Hand equals Ramsay. GRRM could have used that device to clarify that the letter was from Ramsay simply by adding the words "a large spiky hand". But instead he chose to omit the device because he is not trying to clarify that the letter is from Ramsay, he is trying to leave a clue for the reader. The same could be said for the wax. So often we have read of letters sealed with a hard button of wax, so when we read of a smear of wax instead, the association is broken and we know something is wrong, even if we cannot quite put our finger on it sometimes.
  4. Jon and Val compendium.

    I agree with @The Fattest Leech. Stannis, regardless of whether you believe he wrote the pink letter or not, seems to want to see them together. He wants Jon as his loyal Lord of Winterfell, a son of Eddard Stark to rally the North to his cause etc. And he has plans for Val, as Sam reveals, to be the mortar that seals a peace between the North and the Freefolk, which obviously means ha wants Val to marry an important northern lord. No house is more important in the North than House Stark. So Stannis, a Jon/Val shipper, confirmed.
  5. Stannis wrote the Pink Letter

    I just wanted to take the point about Val a step further, thanks again to the point made by @The Fattest Leech. It would seem to me that if we combine Stannis vision for Jon, a Lord of Winterfell that will win the North to his cause, and his vision for Val, someone who will seal a peace between the North and the Freefolk, then he might well consider Val to be the future Lady Jon Stark of Winterfell.
  6. update from George!

    Ya, what subforum should this type of topic be in? I was curious to see if there were any threads on the reports that both books are close to completion. Seems too good to be true, so it probably is. ASoIaF readers have had the optimism beaten out of us over the yeas perhaps. Lol.
  7. Ramsay wrote the pink letter

    Ok, thanks guys. I respect your positions, and even if we disagree I hope I made a case that shows the idea of Stannis as the author is not as ridiculous as some people think.
  8. Ramsay wrote the pink letter

    I'm not disagreeing that there is an implicit motive. I'm simply saying that I find it strange that the motive is not explicit. Take a closely related part of the plot for example, Bowen Marsh's stabbing of Jon. From a storytelling point of view it works because Bowen Marsh's motive has been set up explicitly, not just implicitly. Marsh clearly states his position in relation to the Wildlings and Jon siding with Stannis. We know how the crown feel about Jon because that was explicitly stated by Cersei, Pycelle, and Swyft. So the stabbing is driven by a series of motives that are actually clearly expressed in the text. The collision of these motives is what essentially drives the plot, throughout the whole series, so I think it makes more sense for the motive of the letter's author also to be expressed explicitly and not just implied, like the example of the Red Wedding you mentioned.
  9. Big Walder Analysis

    He's about to make a major leap up the line though, considering the number of Freys that are likely to die in TWoW. At least 34 by the look of it.
  10. Ramsay wrote the pink letter

    So let me get this straight, Ramsay rides out sometime after the Freys and Manderlys, comes upon the aftermath of the battle and is misinformed by Manderlys or Karstarks who have switched sides and present him with the sword and Lord Karstarks head which they say is Stannis, they tell him they already sent someone after Arya, Ramsay accepts this, rides back to Winterfell, writes the letter? Is that an accurate summary of your position? If who wrote the letter was never meant to be in question then GRRM would have made that very clear by including one reason more of the characteristics of Ramsay's letters, which he had previously set up. No one disputes that Jon has the wildling army. The point the OP made was that the author of the letter, without knowing about the wildling army, could never have expected Jon to ride south given the news of Stannis' defeat and the hopelessness of the situation. You disagreed with that your earlier post, even if you were not replying directly to the op. But now It seems you are leaning towards the letter being a pretext for Ramsay to come and get Jon, unless of course Jon comes to Ramsay, which the OP says the author could not expect. I did say from a literary point of view the motive has not been set up, and by that I mean there has been no explicit text that promotes the idea. And that is something beyond dispute. There has been ample opportunity in the course of the story for GRRM to tell the reader how the Boltons feel about Jon and what risk he might pose, as a bastard bound to the Wall. But not once did GRRM take this opportunity, preferring to leave it implicit instead, which measures poorly against the 3 times he explicitly set up Stannis motive toward Jon across 2 books.
  11. An argument supporting Mance wrote the Pink Letter

    @Aegon VII - I guess first I would ask, is there any evidence the letter was written after theon's escape versus before? Not really, but perhaps we can reason that as Theon I TWoW happens before Jon XIII ADwD, and it took Theon 3 days to get to Stannis' camp, while a raven would only take a day or two to get to the Wall, then the Raven was sent sometime after Theon's escape.
  12. Ramsay wrote the pink letter

    It's a days flight for a raven to get to Castle Black, two at most. Ramsay could send a scrap of skin no problem. "Your Grace," a second voice said softly. "Pardon, but your ink has frozen." The Braavosi, Theon knew. What was his name? Tycho... Tycho something... "Perhaps a bit of heat... ?" "I know a quicker way." Stannis drew his dagger. I don't think frozen ink is a problem really. He only used his blood because he didn't want to wait, or perhaps the sneaky devil knows that blood makes piss poor ink and the signature on his contract with the Iron Bank will not endure? That is why the Second Sons changed from blood to red ink after all.
  13. Ramsay wrote the pink letter

    All good points Macgregor. I think the line about the sword is very interesting. I have his magic sword. Tell his red witch. Of course the sword is not a magic sword at all, and Stannis knows as much. So does Mel. In the scenario where the letter is written by Stannis, which I am obviously supporting, then this line is inserted to hint to Mel that there is something amiss with the letter. We know that Mel draws powers from items such as a lock of hair, a pair of boots, a bag of finger bones, as she says herself, and rubies like the one both she and Mance wear to maintain their glamours. Remove this object and the glamour fails is the conclusion I draw from that, considering Abel, who is described the same way Mance is, is not wearing the ruby in Winterfell, (though I suspect he has good reason to start wearing it again.) So if you were to take the sword away from the item that powers the glamour, then it would no longer have even the appearance of a magic sword. And only Mel would know this, so if she saw the letter of heard it's contents read then she would know that Ramsay cannot have the "magic" sword unless he knows what item on Stannis body, like his boots or a lock of hair or a ruby, the glamour needs to work.
  14. Ramsay wrote the pink letter

    I believe it was sealed with a button of pink wax when it left Stannis, but was opened and read and resealed by Bowen Marsh before it was delivered to Jon, with the button of pink wax becoming a smear of pink wax in the process. And i don't think the wording of the letter is beyond Stannis either.
  15. Ramsay wrote the pink letter

    Tybald is the Dreadfort maester who came with the Karstarks, supposedly to tend to their wounded, and is currently Stannis' prisoner as Stannis has worked out that Tybald is sending Roose information about his position.