StepStark

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  1. Selling someone really is anything but romantic. But finding out that Drogo, who Dany was sold to, doesn't want to treat her as merchandise and actually is much more gentle and open-minded than expected, is a legitimate foundation for a romance story.
  2. Why are you reading these books then? It's obvious that GRRM didn't write Drogo as a rapist, and didn't write their wedding night as a rape. She was sold to him, and she recalls that later on and is understandably angry about it (mostly and rightfully at Viserys) but she wasn't raped by Drogo and the two of them developed a mutually loving relationship. And no, she wasn't a child by the standards of the setting - Jon Snow is her age, and roughly at the same time he made a vow for life, so in Westeros and Essoss people of that age are expected to be involved in mature, serious decisions and developments that could affect their lives in significant ways. And not to mention that Sansa and Joff, who are both younger than Dany, are also engaged at the same time and expected to marry soon. And by the way, those standards existed in our world until less than a century ago, and in some parts of the world they still exist. Anyhow, that is how the author intended that to be seen, and that is how it was perceived until the stupid show came along. But if you think that it was a rape and that Drogo is in fact a rapist, then it's logical that you also think that GRRM actually promotes rape. And that's why I asked you why are you reading these books. It's an honest question, I'm not trying to insult you or anything, you obviously have the right to think whatever you want and read whatever you want, but I'm curious really. Ever since the show, I'm seeing that viewpoint: that Dany was actually raped in the books and that Drogo is a rapist in the books too. But nobody in the books themselves ever sees it that way, not even Dany, who is very harsh when it comes to rape and slavery, and that means that GRRM most probably doesn't see that as a rape. So if you are certain in your analysis, and you have no doubt that it was a rape, then I don't understand why are you even reading these books. I know I'd never read an author who'd be promoting (even unwillingly) something that I see as rape or some other form of crime. Why? Millions of readers for years and years were reading that scene the way GRRM wrote it, and had no problem with it. There are tons of romance stories out there that can be explain in that way: love is just weird. I'm perfectly happy that ASOIAF is not one of those stories. You're now contradicting yourself a bit, because here you're implying that 1) GRRM actually wrote the scene as consensual, and 2) the people would freak out if GRRM's and D&D's roles were reversed. But a moment ago you said that the scene would be most notorious if it was filmed as in the books. It looks like that you're always seeing D&D as some poor victims of some irrational rage. And sorry, but that viewpoint is as irrational as it comes. And also, you can't just reverse their roles like that because it disregards the entire context of the story. It's not about turning a no-rape scene into a rape scene, it's much more about taking an important scene that fits the context and practically initiates Dany's arc, and turning it into something else that doesn't fit into the context and paints Dany's entire arc in the entirely different light while D&D don't even seem aware of it. They did the same with Tyrion and Shae and that is why the people complained.
  3. Well, I can't hold it against the plebs, because the show itself romanticized it. I think that the main problem is that even in the show it actually is a romance if you disregard their wedding night, because after the wedding nigh they largely followed the book story. But of course, it's ridiculous to disregard the wedding night because that is how the two of them started their relationship. Like so many times, D&D mixed apples and oranges, and in a story that is suited for Drogo who isn't a rapist, they replaced him with a Drogo who is a rapist. What that has to do with anything? Yes, in the books they are in love, but in the books he doesn't rape her and that makes quite a lot of difference. And besides, it's kinda odd to use GRRM's text to make a point, when the problem in the show exists precisely because D&D deviated from the characters and the story from the books.
  4. It is accurate in certain aspects, but inaccurate in some other aspects. The incest clearly falls into the later, considering that practically nothing of the initial love triangle survived.
  5. I'm just going to repeat that your interpretation is the weirdest one I ever heard of. You assume a lot about what George "really wanted", just for your theory to sound more legitimate. As they say, let's agree to disagree.
  6. It's even stranger then, because that means that someone blacked out the ending before posting it online. That's either the most respectfull hacker in history, or it wasn't about hacking at all. Btw, is it known who post it online?
  7. You don't know that. You're assuming things again. Nothing is resolved, that's just your reading into it. I find it strange that anyone can say that "literally nothing happens in Arya's story". Nothing happens in Harrenhall? Really? LOL!!! That part is the best insight into the War of the Five Kings (apart from the Battle on the Blackwater, though it's only one battle, while in Arya's Harrenhall chapters the everyday effects of the war are in full display), and it's crucial for her character development. But also, you seem all over the place. You're generally taking the outline for the series as if it's a gospel, but here you're saying that George doesn't outline his novels. And yes, he possibly surprised himself with twists and turns in Arya's story, but way before he started writing ACOK, and possibly before AGOT even.
  8. He also famously said something like: "I hate when writers sell their work for an adaptation and then whine about how it turned out - if you didn't want it changed, you shouldn't sell it in the first place". He said that years and years before GOT was conceived. So I really wouldn't expect him to start criticizing the show any time soon, but on the other hand he officially said that he doesn't even watch it any more, so yeah, he's far from happy with the way things turned out. We'll probably never know, but if he knew what are D^D going to do with the story, I don't think he'd sell the rights to them. He'd probably wait, and given the demand for good stories and knowing that the book series was becoming more and more popular, it was probably just a mater of time before some really good writers approach him.
  9. I have to say, that explanation doesn't sound very convincing to me. Why would someone black out the ending, but put everything else on display? If they were concerned with spoiling, they wouldn't put it up there at all, most probably. I don't think I'd do anything like what they say they did. It just doesn't make much sense. They're either fans, in which case they wouldn't even show it so carelessly, or they aren't, in which case they wouldn't black out the most intriguing parts. Anyway, that was just a speculation on my part. I'm not saying that the speculation is accurate, but have to say that none of their explanations sound believable.
  10. We also have no reason to believe the opposite. If we don't know the end, we don't know the end. You can believe or assume whatever you want, but that says nothing of GRRM's intentions with it. This is the strangest reading of Arya's storyline I've ever seen, except D&D's maybe. I don't think a single page is wasted there, and I also think that all of it is actually perfectly connected to her stay in Braavos. The fact that Jaqen is introduced in the very first Arya's chapter in ACOK speaks volumes and goes against your whole theory. The original outline obviously suffered a great number of changes. Among else, the entire twincest thing was added because Cersei didn't even exist in the original outline. If anything, that signals the way GRRM looks at incest. I'd be very surprised if he's okay with Jon/Dany. And besides, you're putting too much emphasis on the original outline. Yes it's interesting to see where did GRRM come from, but in reality the story as published change way too much. Using the outline to explain something from the actual books doesn't make much sense.
  11. What about Dany/Drogo?
  12. He was certainly not coerced into signing the deal with HBO in the first place, but I think that something strange happened along the way. I see no other explanation for that draft's appearance in that particular moment, and also for the fact that the ending of it was conveniently covered. Whoever published it, also wanted to hide the ending, which is strange and not exactly how hackers and crackers usually operate. That's why I think that it was sorta warning, that the cover can easily be removed and the entire plot of the draft revealed, which is definitely not something GRRM would ever want to happen. Of course I don't have any evidence for that theory, but on the other hand that is the only explanation that would actually explain everything about that unusual turn of events. Since they obviously deluded themselves into thinking they're better writers than GRRM, they probably think their ending is better than GRRM's. As for not feeling organic, well nothing ever did when D&D's scenes are concerned, even in early seasons. The number of episodes was not as big a problem as them being terrible writers. While 12 or 15 episodes per season would've been much more appropriate, it works only with good writers. But on the other hand, good writers would've used 10 episodes per season in a much more clever way than D&D did. The show needs both more episode and better runners, but only the former without the later would definitely nor solve anything (it'd only create more problems most probably), while the later without the former would bring an improvement. I'm not sure how can any of the seasons be considered faithful. It's not about how many changes they made, but about were those changes inevitable (due to filming costs or whatever), or just D&D simply liked their writing more than GRRM's. So of course they couldn't deviate a lot in season one, but even then none of their changes made too much sense and all were made because D&D liked their writing more than they liked what's in the books. In time the amount of their scenes just increased, but actually the problem with faithfulness existed from day one. And in that light, I don't expect season eight to be anything near GRRM's story, but even if it is it's going to be ridiculous given how different the journey was.
  13. I meant "his" like "his own writing". Yes, some of his ideas he shared with D&D, sadly, but seeing what they're doing with the story anyways it's not too big a deal. Those two guys wouldn't be able to spoil the Bible.
  14. I'm not sure how much sarcasm you intended to be read there, but I honestly think that there was some figurative arm-twisting between HBO and GRRM, only not at the beginning but later on, around the time when he decided to quit the show as a writer. More precise, I'm still suspicious about that draft and how and when it was published and how the most convenient paragraphs were blacked, just enough for GRRM to be coerced into something. Just my two cents.
  15. This is not uncommon, but a very incorrect interpretation of ADWD. GRRM is an intelligent writer. To you, that sometimes means that he writes "words are wind - travel travel travel - words are wind" novels, but he isn't. He's just meticulous and careful, as he should be considering that he's writing a complex series. Because he's so meticulous and careful, he'd never embarrass himself with stupidities like "the wight hunt" and "negotiating truce with Cersei". Yes, writing a complex story takes time, patience and above all talent. Opposite to something like GOT, which requires none. Thank God that he's no longer a part of the stupid show. It'd be a tragedy if any of his endgame ideas came up in the travesty that is GOT. And besides, it was tiring all these years to explain to show apologists that GRRM doesn't really stand behind the nonsense D&D regularly come up with.