Wmarshal Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 As such the king ordered Tyrion to be freed, Tyrion just let himself out. tywin had no cause to attack those Riverland villages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 The thing is Catelyn broke the peace first, Tywin is just responding. He doesn't even originally plan a full blown invasion of the Riverlands, he wants to lure Ned out and capture him and do a trade but Jaime mucks that up. If he can't do a trade he has to assume the only way he can get his son back is through force. No she didn't, Catelyn's arrest of Tyrion might be on shaky legal grounds but it didn't break the King's Peace and you know who agrees with that principle? Tywin Lannister. As if her arrest had broken the King's Peace then he wouldn't have needed to attack the Riverlands in secret in attempt to provoke them into attacking him openly so they get the blame for breaking the King's Peace. They do? I personally consider him a total scumbag, who was Tywin's right hand man in all of his atrocities, and I've seen posters here agree with me on that quite often. Yeah, Keven is hardly an innocent person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Newcastle Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Brienne will break her oath and kill SH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 No she didn't, Catelyn's arrest of Tyrion might be on shaky legal grounds but it didn't break the King's Peace and you know who agrees with that principle? Tywin Lannister. As if her arrest had broken the King's Peace then he wouldn't have needed to attack the Riverlands in secret in attempt to provoke them into attacking him openly so they get the blame for breaking the King's Peace. He isn't trying to provoke them into breaking the King's Peace by sending Gregor to raid, he is doing it to spread out the Tully forces, it works, if he has to invade and lure Ned into the Riverlands to capture him, which doesn't work. Tywin wanted Ned to know it was him ordering the raiding, or else why send someone identifiable like Gregor? Yes, he is good at raiding and pillaging, but Amory could kill peasants just as easily and is a lot less likely to stand out. He knows everyone will automatically assume it was him but by sending Gregor he basically lets them know he doesn't care if they know, he even wants them to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Everyone seems to forget that Jaime has been missing for weeks, which both precludes him being hanged or him escaping. Wish fulfillment is playing far too big a role in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 We're on the upswing here, people. Things are gathering momentum towards Humpty being put back together again. We're not bringing these characters together so they can keep tearing each other apart and creating more chaos; they're coming together so they can come together in a glorious orgiastic union: a better, more capable BWB will be born of this, a highly functional force that will sweep the Freys off the map and reclaim the Tully castle using Jaime's & Brienne's and Catelyn's & Lem's combined skillz. Because Cat wants this ^ more than she wants to hang any one person, be they kingslayer or no, and Jaime can serve up the Twins on a platter using his Level 8 security clearance as an embassador of the crown. F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Everyone seems to forget that Jaime has been missing for weeks, which both precludes him being hanged or him escaping. Wish fulfillment is playing far too big a role in this discussion. I think people would have noticed if he had escaped, I doubt he's hiding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I think people would have noticed if he had escaped, I doubt he's hiding That's my point. He is neither dead nor has he escaped or been released. If he was dead, Catelyn would have displayed him for the whole world to see. If he escaped or was released, he would have long since made it back to a friendly camp. That being the case, the only feasible option is that Catelyn is utilizing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Of all the bloatedness of the last 2 books, which I didn't mind that much - for me, filler by Martin is still more fun that reading the best stuff of 90% of the other authors out there - but if there was going to be filler what I really would have loved to read is more Stoneheart picking off Freys one by one until old Walder comes face to face that after all his progeny, he's to become the last Frey and his house will go extinct. I'm still hoping to read/see that. ETA:Holy shit...did...did I just post in the books forum? :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 As much as I like Martin, the manner in which the Jaime and Brienne storyline has been handled over the past two books has been something of a travesty. In 2005 he left us with a cliffhanger chapter that was answered six years later by a single cliffhanger chapter which is not likely to be resolved by for another five years. This was simply poorly done all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 doesn't it hint at the momentum building type of twist I'm talkin bout? Because why delay the reveal if it's just a character death he's hiding from us? the delay would most likely be that plotline waiting for the other regions' plots to catch up with it so when the BWB turns the corner they can swing into action right away with the takedowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 That's my point. He is neither dead nor has he escaped or been released. If he was dead, Catelyn would have displayed him for the whole world to see. If he escaped or was released, he would have long since made it back to a friendly camp. That being the case, the only feasible option is that Catelyn is utilizing him. Yeah that's what I think too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 doesn't it hint at the momentum building type of twist I'm talkin bout? Because why delay the reveal if it's just a character death he's hiding from us? the delay would most likely be that plotline waiting for the other regions' plots to catch up with it so when the BWB turns the corner they can swing into action right away with the takedowns. I'm in agreement but it should have been structured better. The delay is so peculiar that it can only be a function of the storyline having to wait on another. My own guess, based on the steady foreshadowing in Cersei's chapters, is that the Jaime and Brienne storyline is waiting on hers, whereas her storyline was waiting on Aegon's arrival and so on. This is precisely why the decision to split A Feast for Crows geographically was such a bad decision. It did nothing but butcher the narrative flow of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lady Stark Martell Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 What do I want to happen? Well, well. I want Jaime and Brienne to live and figure out they love each other and run away together, but that surely ain't happening, so... I don't think Brienne will let Jaime die, and I can't see Jaime letting Brienne die either (he did jump into a bear pit for her, come on), so they'll either team up and fight their way out of there, or they'll reach an agreement with LS and the brotherhood. I also think Brienne could ask for Jaime's help, explain the situation to him and ask him to help her get Pod and Hyle back (are they still alive?). Orrrr, Jaime could convince her to leave them behind and run for her life, which I think would be very difficult to do and kind of ooc for her, even if you believe Brienne loves Jaime and would do anything to keep him alive. I don't know. I just want them to live, I don't care how lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The dream Jaime had prior to returning to Harrenhal lays it out pretty clearly. Jaime lives as long as Brienne does.I'm guessing Jaime becomes a hostage to ensure Brienne's compliance and for what other uses LS may come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 ETA:Holy shit...did...did I just post in the books forum? :eek:My god, you talked to the nerds, now your cred with the cool kids of gen chat is destroyed. How will you be able to look down on the forums "up north" with the rest of them now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaeronDrumm Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I want LS hang him for all his horrid crimes, pushing her son out of a window, threating to kill her brother's unborn child, and attacking the riverlands with no just cause. Afterwards I would like her to plan the assault on Damon and his future Frey in laws. Revenge is a stonehearted bitch. Any particular reason you want Daven Lannister of all people dead? The guy isn't some sort of notorious war criminal or a devious schemer or even a false knight. He's just a regular cadet branch Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Any particular reason you want Daven Lannister of all people dead? The guy isn't some sort of notorious war criminal or a devious schemer or even a false knight. He's just a regular cadet branch Lannister.He fought for Tywin and aided in the butchery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaeronDrumm Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 He's a Lannister, he's supposed to fight for Casterly Rock. And I don't recall him taking part in any harryings or ordering any massacres. Robb's host harried the Westerlands as well, torching villages and crops and raping and massacring smallfolk. If Robb's bannermen don't deserve to be murdered, Daven Lannister doesn't deserve it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalais Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I still go with the idea that Brienne's being used as a plot device by GRRM to get Jamie and Stoneheart to meet so Jamie can offer the Freys on a platter to save his own skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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