Things we can now accept as likely?

[Ser Lepus]

It seems it's aimed specifically at dragonriders rather than just Valyrians in general.

How? The Valyrians as a whole were enemies to the Rhoynar, and while the dragonriders won the war, the ones who started it were the non-dragonrider Valyrians from Volantis.

[Dragon Roast]

Septon Barth is always right.

Word!

[Maid So Fair]

How? The Valyrians as a whole were enemies to the Rhoynar, and while the dragonriders won the war, the ones who started it were the non-dragonrider Valyrians from Volantis.

It was the dragonriders that caused the Rhoynar doom - up until dragonriders got involved the Rhoynar were doing reasonably well against the Valyrian colonies and Volantis. It's water magic against fire magic.

[Dragon Roast]

We know what Arya learned in ADWD when she told the Kindly Man one of her three new things:

"Tormo Fregar will be the new sealord."

"Is that what they are saying at the Inn of the Green Eel?"

"Yes."

The kindly man took a bite of his egg. The girl heard him chewing. He never spoke with his mouth full. He swallowed, and said, "Some men say there is wisdom in wine. Such men are fools. At other inns other names are being bruited about, never doubt." He took another bite of egg, chewed, swallowed. "What three new things do you know, that you did not know before?"

"I know that some men are saying that Tormo Fregar will surely be the new sealord," she answered. "Some drunken men."

We know that Maester Yandel and his interpretation of some sources said and/or implied that this or that was true.

We know what some of those original sources had to say when they are directly quoted or excerpted.

We know how these new facts compare to what we have learned from POV characters in ASOIAF (and we know that some of those POVs have reliability issues).

All that said, we can have fun making educated guesses about this or that theory or hunch based on the new information.

A big one for me was Sumerhall. After TWOIAF, I'm more convinced than ever that it was murder and not magic that kill Egg. In the conspiracy was Tywin. Aerys II, Pycelle and one of the pyromancers (most likely Rossart).

I do not think it would be possible for Egg to involve wild fire and pyromancers in any effort to hatch a dragon egg,He knew what happened to his brother and he was actively searching for real and true dragon lore. Deciding to embrace pyromancer trickery as a short cut seems very far fetch. And by the time of Summerhall Dunk and Egg knew hatching a dragon meant a Targ more often that not as a real dragon.

My suspects would have lost power if Egg lived. With him dead, they would claim power. Egg would have never let Tywin get away with genocide and Aerys would have never sat the IT.

After reading TWOIAF I'm more convinced than ever that it was murder and not magic behind the Tradegy of Summerhall.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Old nan was right

Old Nan is always right. Listen to her, not idiot maesters.

[Kingmonkey]

Old Nan is always right. Listen to her, not idiot maesters.

All the scrolls in the citadel could not match Old Nan's wisdom. Rule 1 of ASOIAF: If Old Nan said it, it's going to turn out to be at least mostly true.

[personal fave crackpottery]I will remain convinced that Old Nan is in fact thousands of years old and knows everything because she's a first hand witness even if I receive a personal signed notarisation from GRRM that it is not so. Anything that she gets wrong is because she's so forgetful in her old age she doesn't realise how old she is -- the the Brandon Stark she came to Winterfell to wetnurse was Brandon the Builder. [/personal fave crackpottery]

[The Faceless Bard]

From what I read A + J probably definitely went on, but the twins weren't born until 3 years after she left KL, so tywin made extra sure his lineage was uncorrupted ... So I don't know how people can be saying A+ J=T is even more possible, I consider that notion barely possible

[Maid So Fair]

From what I read A + J probably definitely went on, but the twins weren't born until 3 years after she left KL, so tywin made extra sure his lineage was uncorrupted ... So I don't know how people can be saying A+ J=T is even more possible, I consider that notion barely possible

Tywin and Joanna came back to court to present the twins in the right timeframe for Tyrion to be born 9 months later. Along with all the hints of A + J having (had) an affair, and the fact that baby!Tyrion description is remarkably similar to the descriptions of Rhaella's miscarriages, it does make you wonder. I don't think it's proven, but a lot more likely.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Tywin and Joanna came back to court to present the twins in the right timeframe for Tyrion to be born 9 months later. Along with all the hints of A + J having (had) an affair, and the fact that baby!Tyrion description is remarkably similar to the descriptions of Rhaella's miscarriages, it does make you wonder. I don't think it's proven, but a lot more likely.

How is Tyrion's description similar to Rhaella's miscarriages?

[Maid So Fair]

How is Tyrion's description similar to Rhaella's miscarriages?

My apologies. I appear to have managed to mix up Aerys with Maegor when it comes to the descriptions - maybe we should be looking for Tyanna's equivalent during the reign of Aerys? There's still a history of stillbirths, deformed children and very difficult pregnancies in Targaryen lineage, including Aerys's immediate offspring, while the Lannisters seem exceptionally fertile. Dwarfism is genetic and can cause miscarriages when certain genes mix.

[OmnomnomPomelo]

All the scrolls in the citadel could not match Old Nan's wisdom. Rule 1 of ASOIAF: If Old Nan said it, it's going to turn out to be at least mostly true.

[personal fave crackpottery]I will remain convinced that Old Nan is in fact thousands of years old and knows everything because she's a first hand witness even if I receive a personal signed notarisation from GRRM that it is not so. Anything that she gets wrong is because she's so forgetful in her old age she doesn't realise how old she is -- the the Brandon Stark she came to Winterfell to wetnurse was Brandon the Builder. [/personal fave crackpottery]

Man, then she should be like 8000 years old :D And also it is said that Brandon the Builder as a young boy lived in the Stormlands where he helped Elenei and king Durran to build Storm's End and after that he went to the North. Yes I know that it's a story in the Stormlands and can be different in the North.

But if Nan trully was a nurse of Brandon the Builder himself and lived for like 8000 years then she has to be Elenei since Elenei started as an immortal goddess.

But I'm sure we will never know this.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

All the scrolls in the citadel could not match Old Nan's wisdom. Rule 1 of ASOIAF: If Old Nan said it, it's going to turn out to be at least mostly true.

[personal fave crackpottery]I will remain convinced that Old Nan is in fact thousands of years old and knows everything because she's a first hand witness even if I receive a personal signed notarisation from GRRM that it is not so. Anything that she gets wrong is because she's so forgetful in her old age she doesn't realise how old she is -- the the Brandon Stark she came to Winterfell to wetnurse was Brandon the Builder. [/personal fave crackpottery]

That would be genius! I'm going to take your crackpot as true.

I kind of love that the only history the Maesters could ever hope to know is false. They have writing and think that its hard proof but in reality even the facts are clouded with opinion and the taint of pre-belief. Whereas the First Men, thought to be backward had a perfect knowledge repository. Where a greenseer can see the past untainted, from every angle and come to their own conclusion. Nothing could be lost, nothing could be hidden, no one can lie. The Andals had books, the First Men had video! This is why I question every time the maester says that something is too primitive for the First Men. the Andal -centricism. That the Andals brought progress and advancement as embodied by Maesters when in fact the Andals obliterated a way of life that had figured out some things far beyond their invaders. Even if it wasn't how to make Iron. Nan's oral tales passed down from generation to generation at least is a part of that, that is how the North remembers now, its still not in Andal Common Tongue writing.

Man, then she should be like 8000 years old :D And also it is said that Brandon the Builder as a young boy lived in the Stormlands where he helped Elenei and king Durran to build Storm's End and after that he went to the North. Yes I know that it's a story in the Stormlands and can be different in the North.

But if Nan trully was a nurse of Brandon the Builder himself and lived for like 8000 years then she has to be Elenei since Elenei started as an immortal goddess.

But I'm sure we will never know this.

Elenei and Durran are Arwen and Aragorn. She gave up her immortality but they both lived crazy long lives apparently. Durran reigned 1000 years its said!

[walkingWITHcersei]

http://harpervoyagerbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Winds.of_.Winter-Arianne.pdf

Again best name ever! RumHam!!!

Ty for the link. I've read that before I just didn't take that as positive confirmation of krakens existing. Until we see one who knows if they really exist, but that definitely makes it seem much more likely.

[sifth]

Again best name ever! RumHam!!!

Ty for the link. I've read that before I just didn't take that as positive confirmation of krakens existing. Until we see one who knows if they really exist, but that definitely makes it seem much more likely.

Varys reported of one of his little birds spotting a kraken in A Storm of Swords. He also mentions dragons in the same report so we know the latter part of the report was true.

[Morgul-Blade]

All the scrolls in the citadel could not match Old Nan's wisdom. Rule 1 of ASOIAF: If Old Nan said it, it's going to turn out to be at least mostly true.

[personal fave crackpottery]I will remain convinced that Old Nan is in fact thousands of years old and knows everything because she's a first hand witness even if I receive a personal signed notarisation from GRRM that it is not so. Anything that she gets wrong is because she's so forgetful in her old age she doesn't realise how old she is -- the the Brandon Stark she came to Winterfell to wetnurse was Brandon the Builder. [/personal fave crackpottery]

I enjoy this.

[SeanF]

Consider the following--what if the mages had never tried to keep the 14 flames in check at all (and assuming the "blood magic" for dragon bonding had nothing to do with the issue)? Would the Doom have happened earlier? I don't think so.

Yes, they were living in a relatively unstable area--but what made it so unstable? And why is the area now--hundreds of years after the Doom--still so toxic anyone who goes near is never seen again. This situation suggests more than just normal volcanic activity being held back by the mages. To me, at least, it suggests that the reason that so many mages were needed to keep the area stable is because something happened to destabilize the area--and the only event I am aware of is the binding of the dragons.

If the instability is caused by repercussions to such powerful magic--it would explain why the area remains unfit for people today. But this is getting too off-topic. Maybe I will start a separate thread to discuss this particular theory.

I imagine that you would have frequent volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, but nothing on the scale of the Doom.

Perhaps the constant eruptions that take place today are just righting the balance after the eruptions were suppressed by sorcery for thousands of years prior to the Doom.

[UnmaskedLurker]

I imagine that you would have frequent volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, but nothing on the scale of the Doom.

Perhaps the constant eruptions that take place today are just righting the balance after the eruptions were suppressed by sorcery for thousands of years prior to the Doom.

So why does anyone approaching the area disappear forever?

[cgf]

So why does anyone approaching the area disappear forever?

I wish I knew how to make this start thirty seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPQVrjnC1jo

[SeanF]

So why does anyone approaching the area disappear forever?

The volcanic fumes are poisonous

Though, Euron claims to have visited Valyria.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

We know what Arya learned in ADWD when she told the Kindly Man one of her three new things:

We know that Maester Yandel and his interpretation of some sources said and/or implied that this or that was true.

We know what some of those original sources had to say when they are directly quoted or excerpted.

We know how these new facts compare to what we have learned from POV characters in ASOIAF (and we know that some of those POVs have reliability issues).

All that said, we can have fun making educated guesses about this or that theory or hunch based on the new information.

A big one for me was Sumerhall. After TWOIAF, I'm more convinced than ever that it was murder and not magic that kill Egg. In the conspiracy was Tywin. Aerys II, Pycelle and one of the pyromancers (most likely Rossart).

I do not think it would be possible for Egg to involve wild fire and pyromancers in any effort to hatch a dragon egg,He knew what happened to his brother and he was actively searching for real and true dragon lore. Deciding to embrace pyromancer trickery as a short cut seems very far fetch. And by the time of Summerhall Dunk and Egg knew hatching a dragon meant a Targ more often that not as a real dragon.

My suspects would have lost power if Egg lived. With him dead, they would claim power. Egg would have never let Tywin get away with genocide and Aerys would have never sat the IT.

After reading TWOIAF I'm more convinced than ever that it was murder and not magic behind the Tradegy of Summerhall.

More and more, I believe that former Valyrian vassals & slaves have had a hand in Westeros events, for good or for ill.

The Braavosi (Iron Bank, HoBaW, Faceless) absolutely were trying to take the Targs out. Must have annoyed them that their former masters weren't all wiped out in the Doom.

I thought that Viserys II marrying Larra Rogare was interesting. The Rogare Bank isn't something I recall hearing about before in canon. Viserys was critical during a time when the Targs were imperiled... I can't imagine what might have happened if he hadn't been found (Aegon III), then Hand (Baelor), and King. She was older and I'm sure had influence. Then once he was settled, she went back to Essos.

Agree with all those who say that so much of what has happened has been submerged, so to speak. We just won't know everything until the end.