Stannis getting Dragonstone: Insult or honour?

[Salafi Stannis]

Was his bro Bob fucking him over but giving baby Renly Storm's End, or was Robert trying to do what's best in suppressing the Targ loyalists at Dragonstone. Was he even showing Stannis that he's his heir? Although, it's a bit odd to give Stan the shitty castle forever as a gesture that would only make sense for the few years until Bob has an heir.

Personally I think it's a grievous fucking insult. If someone gave me Dragonstone I'd punch their mum in the face, I'd rather live in a mountain of hippopotamus shit in Flea Bottom. Fuck the king.

[Chaircat Meow]

Not intentionally perhaps but yes.

If Robert had kept both DS and SE for his children it would not have been a problem. However, giving frivolous Renly the superior seat, in preference to his older brother, who had dutifully fought for Robert, was unfair. He essentially allowed Renly to jump over Stannis in the line of succession to SE, even though Stannis had served him well.

[Salafi Stannis]

Not intentionally perhaps but yes.

If Robert had kept both DS and SE for his children it would not have been a problem. However, giving frivolous Renly the superior seat, in preference to his older brother, who had dutifully fought for Robert, was unfair. He essentially allowed Renly to jump over Stannis in the line of succession to SE, even though Stannis had served him well.

Say Wallahi.

[The Drunkard]

I tend to think Robert put him there as both a gift and a job. He gets his own castle as reward for everything he's done, and he's also the right type of man to root out any Targaryen loyalists still lurking around. But Robert in his "careless generosity" gives Renly Storm's End as well, which is, intentionally or not, a big middle finger to Stannis. Storm's End is unquestionably the better castle, with more vassals, soldiers, tax, prestige, etc, and the little brother who did nothing whatsoever to earn the place gets it over the elder brother who's already demonstrated his ability and loyalty.

[Bryanfury]

Subjective

[Winterfell is Burning]

I tend to think Robert put him there as both a gift and a job. He gets his own castle as reward for everything he's done, and he's also the right type of man to root out any Targaryen loyalists still lurking around. But Robert in his "careless generosity" gives Renly Storm's End as well, which is, intentionally or not, a big middle finger to Stannis. Storm's End is unquestionably the better castle, with more vassals, soldiers, tax, prestige, etc, and the little brother who did nothing whatsoever to earn the place gets it over the elder brother who's already demonstrated his ability and loyalty.

Yep to all this.

[Guard of the Rainking]

Robert meant it as an insult, but Jon Arryn meant it as an important job.

[Ocelot]

Robert gave Stannis DS to keep Targ loyalists in line. He gave Renly SE b/c he was the only other Baratheon. Which Stannis took as an insult, but it wasn't intended to be.

[Bronn Urgandy]

An insult and compliment, in a way. Bob needs a hard job doing, Stannis gets the nod. Renly/Ned/even Jaime get the rewards though

[Sullen]

An insult and compliment, in a way. Bob needs a hard job doing, Stannis gets the nod. Renly/Ned/even Jaime get the rewards though

Dragonstone and their lords of the Narrow Sea is much more of a reward than what either of Eddard and Jaime got.

OT: It was a tremendous honour, and a somewhat stupid decision as it weakened Bob's own line in the long run (same with Renly and Storm's End), Stannis doesn't seem to consider he could have been stuck with the job of castellan instead, which would have been the wise thing to do from Robert's part.

Robert was too generous with both of his brothers, Stannis saw Renly got more and got jealous.

[Ramsay Gimp]

The insult wasn't necessarily giving Stannis Dragonstone, but giving Renly Storm's End

If Stannis had gotten Dragonstone and Stannis retained Storm's End for himself and his heirs then there would be no problem. Combine the Crownlands and Stormlands, and Storm's End could be to the Baratheon Royal Family what Dragonstone was to the Targs. But handing the ancestral seat and region to a child who had done nothing for the war effort? Stupid and insulting.

That said, it makes sense to put a trusted hardass like Stannis at Dragonstone. The Velaryons especially were a potential threat

[Salafi Stannis]

Dragonstone and their lords of the Narrow Sea is much more of a reward than what either of Eddard and Jaime got.

OT: It was a tremendous honour, and a somewhat stupid decision as it weakened Bob's own line in the long run (same with Renly and Storm's End), Stannis doesn't seem to consider he could have been stuck with the job of castellan instead, which would have been the wise thing to do from Robert's part.

Robert was too generous with both of his brothers, Stannis saw Renly got more and got jealous.

Ned was Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North and Jaime was in the KG, and even still he was being planned by Tywin to be Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West. That's instantly 1000000x better than Dragonstone so why the fuck would they want in anyway.

[Talleyrand]

Ned was Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North and Jaime was in the KG, and even still he was being planned by Tywin to be Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West. That's instantly 1000000x better than Dragonstone so why the fuck would they want in anyway.

Is it a reward to make someone something they already were?

[Sullen]

Ned was Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North and Jaime was in the KG, and even still he was being planned by Tywin to be Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West. That's instantly 1000000x better than Dragonstone so why the fuck would they want in anyway.

Eddard was already Lord of Winterfell, and Jaime was already in the King's Guard. They weren't awarded anything by Robert, they simply got to keep their titles.

Stannis on the other hand was upjumped from being a second son with no future to being one of the most powerful lords in the Seven Kingdoms, it's the disparity between the initial situation and the final results that count.

Robert wasn't especially generous to Ned, he didn't give him anything, and while letting Jaime stay in the King's Guard is pretty generous, it doesn't compare with being made an important lord with several bannermen of your own and being put on the King's Council.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

honour, Robert should have kept KL, Dragonstone, and Storm´s End for himself.

[Pox Americana]

I'm of the belief that Robert needed Stannis to hold it down for him. Renly got Storm's End because Storm's End wasn't in a precarious position (and he had the next best claim after Stannis), where as the Dragonstone constituents had practically all fought on the other side during the rebellion and had a pretty influential location. The lords of the Narrow Sea needed a strong administrator to keep them functioning efficiently within the bounds of the crown.

One problem, as evidenced by the War of the Five Kings, is having three powerful branches of the same family contesting the same seat. Honestly, Stannis should've been given the Stormlands, regency of the Narrow Sea until the Crown Prince came of age, and his council seat. Renly getting a council seat was enough.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Neither. It was a practical decision. Jon AryN needed someone strong there and Robert had two brothers to make use of. Meanwhile, it would have been impractical for stannis to hold both castles - better to have renly groomed to rule SE and have stannis focus on bringing DS and environs to heel.

However it definitely sucks for Stannis on a personal level, and it was risky in that it's never good to set up situations that build resentment in your vassals - especially if they are your brothers!

[the storm king returns]

Robert was EXTREMELY generous to both Baratheon brothers truth is Stannis is a second son and would have received NO lands and NO castle, but Bobby B loved his brothers at this time and gave SE to Renly because he was the only Baratheon left after Stannis received DS. Stannis should feel blessed he received such a powerful castle and lands, hes acting like a child on christmas Who received less présents then another child.

[Batbob45]

are you sure Robert ever love his brother.He was not a good brother, father(after Mya was sent to the Vale),or king. Robert was a good friend to Ned but also more than likely, could be an awesome uncle.

[the storm king returns]

If he didnt love Renly why would he give him SE and not his first born son ???