Jon/Arya/Tyrion love triangle becomes the Gendry/Arya/(possibly)Aegon?

[Pod The Impaler]

Sansa marries Gendry, Arya's heart is broken ?

[DJIM]

No, that romance was clearly scrapped. I really didn't like the idea of Jon and Arya falling in love with each other when i was first reading A Game of Thrones. You can see the seeds for that there and maybe if the family stayed together it could happen as they grew up. But the story demanded they split and now when they think of each other they seem (to me) to think of them as brother and sister.

If any other romances happen they will be completely new ones imo.

[Woman of War]

........Now, I'm all for SanSan, but I don't see them as 'endgame', so to speak. And I don't want Sansa to end up her days alone, but with a family she loves and loves her back. Sadly, Aegon is more likely to die, but I would want him to be with her because he makes a good match. He's kind and good natured. He also seems to have a honest approach to life, something Sansa desperately needs in her life after all those intrigues and plots.

I believe some interaction of Sansa and Sandor will happen but the romantics aspect will be pushed into the background by more complex moral evaluations. Sandor may die for Sansa, maybe openeyed, realizing that Sansa hasn't much in common anymore with the girl he at the same time wanted to fuck and tried to protect. In the end he might be her victim, Sansa turning the power balance upside down and making use of Sandor's emotions for her. And Sandor might support her against better knowledge, being the one with a moral compass by then and yet emotionally doomed to fight for the one he still loves. This would lift any love angle between them on a higher and different philosophical level.

In the end Sandor will die and Sansa wil shed a tear or two for him.

But I think Aegon is not necessarily doomed to die if he is beaten in battle or unveiled as fake. He is seriously convinced to be the prince and he may be devastated and depressed if the truth comes out but he may yet yield, recognize someone else's claim and survive in a remote life somewhere in exile. And Sansa may, even if Tyrion shows up alive, prefer to stay with her beautiful fakeprince since no one could or would force her to stay with Tyrion, formally married or not. Certainly not Tyrion who may have moved on and would hardly look forward to another dreadful dinner with a frosty Sansa.

Thus Sansa and Aegon may yet have their remotely happy ending.

The final angle for Sansa would then be Aegon/her/Tyrion, with Tyrion gladly stepping back after his existing marriage to Sansa maybe has saved her life.

[Arya Targaryen]

The idea of Jon and Arya as a romantic couple in the books is absurd. GRRM clearly abandoned that idea long time ago (fortunately) and created other love interests/potential love interests for them.

I know you and many others find it absurd. But there still are more than a couple readers who picked up all those hints and explains them that way. What GRRM intends to do now is clearly no common knowledge. He may or may not intends to bring Jon and Arya together.

However, I'm slightly annoyed by all the comments that states "GRRM clearly abandoned" or "the characters he wrote wouldn't do that, anyone who can read should realize that". These are mostly the same posters who were very confident in argueing that "Jon/Arya is icky because they grew up together and no matter what they would still see each other as siblings, and it is impossible for them to fall in love" until a week ago, when it was revealed that that's where GRRM wanted to go originally.

At this point we cannot say for certain whether Jon and Arya will fall in love. I think they might. You think it's impossible. From the two of us, I am definitely right, because I don't exclude the other outcome. You do. I understand that you find it highly unlikely, but you should also understand that you cannot state such things for sure, even if you don't like the other option. I don't exclude Arya/Gendry, even though it's a ship I really hate, and don't think it's likely to happen. But I don't call BS whenever someone mentions the possibility. Because it's there.

No, that romance was clearly scrapped. I really didn't like the idea of Jon and Arya falling in love with each other when i was first reading A Game of Thrones. You can see the seeds for that there and maybe if the family stayed together it could happen as they grew up. But the story demanded they split and now when they think of each other they seem (to me) to think of them as brother and sister.

If any other romances happen they will be completely new ones imo.

You know it's really funny. Most posters exclude the possibility exactly because they grew up together. you say it would have been more likely if they stayed together. I havent seen this argument before.

I think that them being apart and only meet when they know they are only cousins and they both have grown up will actually help in developing a romantic relationship.

[Lee-Sensei]

You're missing something in my analysis. Sansa used to want to marry a prince. Now she's not interested. But that doesn't mean she won't end up married to a king temporarily anyway. I know the love interest you're talking about and I hope she ends up with him, but I think she's got a ways to go before there's even a chance of that happening.

Sansa can bring Aegon the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale. Unlike Dany, Aegon has not been spouting off about the "usurper's dogs." Ned Stark was a good man, even his enemies say so. As far as anyone knows she's the last remaining Stark. That gives her the North. Being Hoster Tully and Minisa Whent's grandchild, and Edmure Tully's niece gives her the support of the Riverlands. Being Jon Arryn's niece, first cousin to the current Lord of the Vale give her at least part of the Vale. With Littlefinger's help, this is doable. When the stories of her suffering become public she'll pick up popular support. She'll be Margaery 2.0

He'll weasel his way into Aegon's court and sneak her in for a private audience. She'll be able to detail the horrors of the usurper's son, the abuse she suffered at the hands of House Lannister, the fact that she's not truly married to Tyrion (who Aegon already knows), the fact that her entire family is gone, her home destroyed, and still has a false accusation of regicide hanging over her head. And Aegon can't exactly blame someone for having embarrassing relatives. He's got the same problem. He knows what it's like to be the last of his family and to have to hide his identity. Let's not forget as well that this is a young man in his late teens and Sansa is a knockout.

She'll get a trial of seven, which her side will win. She'll get an annulment, and Aegon will marry her. No love involved. And during her marriage to Aegon, and his subsequent cheating, she will lose the very last interest she ever had in court life. That time will take out the last vestiges of her girlish dreams, which are currently only mostly-dead.

Oh, and the Hot Pie comment was a joke.

Sansa can bring the North possibly. She has no control over the Riverlands and the Vale.

[Annara Snow]

Sansa can bring the North possibly. She has no control over the Riverlands and the Vale.

Sansa has no control over any of it as things currently stand. Not that the Northmen would care about supporting Aegon's claim anyway, they have their own troubles that actually concern them.

Sansa doesn't have to currently hold anything. Bran and Rickon are thought to be dead. Jon is in the Night's Watch, and no one knows where Arya is (no pun intended). She is last remaining legitimate child of Eddard Stark. The North will support her. Even if Davos brings Rickon back, the North is still going to support Sansa. She's also the granddaughter and niece of Lords Paramount of the Riverlands. No one in the Riverlands has forgotten that Catelyn Tully is Sansa's mother, and after the Red Wedding even those who were anti-Tully before that are liable to go pro-Sansa just because so they can ditch LP Frey. You're forgetting that Ned grew up in the Vale. He was known and respected there. In addition to being Ned's daughter Sansa is Jon Arryn's niece. Her cousin, Lord Robert adores her and would have no problem ordering his men to do whatever she wants.

The Northmen care about avenging the Starks. What better way than to join Sansa's husband to help crush the Lannisters, and probably take out the Freys as well?

Aegon assumes he's going to get Dornish support because he's Elia's son. He does not need Arianne. But Dorne doesn't have anywhere near the numbers of soldiers they're letting people think they have, so he may not need them anyway.

If Aegon were to believe that, he'd be a moron and would have no chance to gain the IT.

I don't know how people can ignore the neon signs that Aegon and Arianne are going to be the next political marriage. The idea that Aegon doesn't need her because he's just going to be given Dorne's support on a plate doesn't hold water. Really, the Dornish are just going to offer unconditional support to his guy who comes out of nowhere and claims to be Elia's son, and they're not going to ask for anything? Do people really believe that? Is that what Arianne's TWOW role is going to be - she's got two chapters just setting up her meeting with Aegon, and then she (who's been given the authority on the matter by Doran) is just going to give Aegon unconditional support, and that would be the anticlimactic end to this storyline, with Arianne doing nothing for the rest of the book?

Or is Arianne maybe going to want something... like, say, being the Queen of Westeros? Aegon still thinks he's going to marry Dany. but news will eventually reach him that she's 1) already married, 2) not going to Westeros, 3) missing and possibly dead. GRRM is even setting up possible sources of tension: the unruly cousin Elia, the presence of Daemon Sand, who may still have feelings for Arianne....Arianne is sexy and seductive, but Aegon may experience a culture shock and be uncomfortable with Arianne's sexual experience, especially when the man she lost her virginity to many years ago - a bastard, no less! - is right there. But Aegon will have to understand that, with his dubious identity claim, he really needs Dornish support, and alienating them is the last thing he needs.

The number of Dornish soldiers Aegon can get is definitely larger than the number of Northern soldiers he can get, Sansa or no Sansa... which is about 0. The legitimacy he'd get from Doran's support is also priceless.

Even the fact that Aegon and Arianne seem both to be cut from the show suggests that they are sharing the same storyline.

LF would want Sansa marrying Varys' puppet. What's his business again? LF will be betting that Aegon will be besotted with the beautiful Sansa and let a certain part of his anatomy do his thinking. Through Sansa's influence over Aegon, he becomes Littlefinger's puppet instead.

Aegon is not the horse to back, and is also pretty useless for winning over the North.

I didn't say she needed a bad experience. I don't think anything too terrible will happen to her. But I do think it will be the final straw, and after this she'll do what she wants to do, partly because she'll finally be in a position to be calling the shots with regard to her own life. She went from her parents controlling her life, to the Lannisters, now Littlefinger. The little bird is not yet ready to fly. But by the end of the series she will be. She needs to grow more before that happens. This way she gets to use her new skill-set first.

What exactly about Sansa's storyline requires her to marry Aegon, for any of those to happen? Why does she need him for her development? How would that make her "grow"? She's already had the final straw. But she needs more of the same, before her storyline stops being repetitive? And even if she does, she already has Harry the Heir in her storyline, and has been told by her "Father" to use her "skill set" on him. Why try to squeeze Aegon into it?

On the other hand, there's a female character who actually is having a storyline set up involving Aegon, who may want to be Queen, and who may develop and grow in this storyline... Arianne.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Sansa has no control over any of it as things currently stand. Not that the Northmen would care about supporting Aegon's claim anyway, they have their own troubles that actually concern them.

If Aegon were to believe that, he'd be a moron and would have no chance to gain the IT.

I don't know how people can ignore the neon signs that Aegon and Arianne are going to be the next political marriage. The idea that Aegon doesn't need her because he's just going to be given Dorne's support on a plate doesn't hold water. Really, the Dornish are just going to offer unconditional support to his guy who comes out of nowhere and claims to be Elia's son, and they're not going to ask for anything? Do people really believe that? Is that what Arianne's TWOW role is going to be - she's got two chapters just setting up her meeting with Aegon, and then she (who's been given the authority on the matter by Doran) is just going to give Aegon unconditional support, and that would be the anticlimactic end to this storyline, with Arianne doing nothing for the rest of the book?

Or is Arianne maybe going to want something... like, say, being the Queen of Westeros? Aegon still thinks he's going to marry Dany. but news will eventually reach him that she's 1) already married, 2) not going to Westeros, 3) missing and possibly dead. GRRM is even setting up possible sources of tension: the unruly cousin Elia, the presence of Daemon Sand, who may still have feelings for Arianne....Arianne is sexy and seductive, but Aegon may experience a culture shock and be uncomfortable with Arianne's sexual experience, especially when the man she lost her virginity to many years ago - a bastard, no less! - is right there. But Aegon will have to understand that, with his dubious identity claim, he really needs Dornish support, and alienating them is the last thing he needs.

The number of Dornish soldiers Aegon can get is definitely larger than the number of Northern soldiers he can get, Sansa or no Sansa... which is about 0. The legitimacy he'd get from Doran's support is also priceless.

Even the fact that Aegon and Arianne seem both to be cut from the show suggests that they are sharing the same storyline.

Aegon is not the horse to back, and is also pretty useless for winning over the North.

What exactly about Sansa's storyline requires her to marry Aegon, for any of those to happen? Why does she need him for her development? How would that make her "grow"? She's already had the final straw. But she needs more of the same, before her storyline stops being repetitive? And even if she does, she already has Harry the Heir in her storyline, and has been told by her "Father" to use her "skill set" on him. Why try to squeeze Aegon into it?

On the other hand, there's a female character who actually is having a storyline set up involving Aegon, who may want to be Queen, and who may develop and grow in this storyline... Arianne.

Again, Sansa doesn't have to have control of it. She personally wouldn't even bring it up. Littlefinger is going to be playing that angle. And all he has to do is say he can deliver it. By the time anyone finds out he can't make good on the promises (if he can't) it will be too late for Aegon to go back on his word. Really, you don't seem to see how LF works. Instead you seem to think Sansa is going to suddenly stand up and be Elizabeth I.

The show? For one thing we don't know for sure that they've been cut (they could pull a season finale surprise with Aegon landing in Westeros in the last five minutes of the episode), and for another, so what? They've killed off characters who are still alive and have important things to do. They've also combined characters. They may have cut Aegon and wrapped Arianne in with Lady Nym, which would rather indicate that A&A's story-lines don't go together.

Aegon is actually IN Westeros, as opposed to Dany who is missing and presumed dead. Tell me how Littlefinger is going to know not to back Aegon.

When GRRM puts a neon sign in, 99% of the time it's a sure indication that what's on the sign isn't going to happen. The bigger the sign, the brighter the flash, the farther from what will actually occur. That would be how people can ignore said sign.

I didn't say Aegon will get Dorne's support. I said he expects it. This is a nineteen year old boy. Moron is to be expected. I know and you know that he shouldn't consider it a slam-dunk. But Aegon, having not read the books, does not know it.

Sansa's storyline does not require Aegon. And I never said it did. I'm just proposing it as a possibility, and countering arguments that claim it wouldn't work. Even you have to see that as a former queen she'd have far more independence and agency than as just Sansa Stark. No, she doesn't "need" more suffering, but this is not a warm-fuzzies kind of series. No character's suffering is done yet. The girl is 13/14. She's got more hard knocks coming up. The only safe characters in this series are the dead ones, and even they don't always get to rest.

Harry the heir is not the goal. Petyr Baelish does not think that small. And she can't marry Harry without an annulment...which requires going to King's Landing. Which means a trial. The trial of seven will probably even be Littlefinger's idea. I expect Harry to fight in it, and die.

Using the skill-set on Harry is practice before going after big game.

What people want in this series and what they actually get tend to be worlds apart.

Sansa can bring the North possibly. She has no control over the Riverlands and the Vale.

Littlefinger. Lord of Harrenhal, Lord Protector for Robert Arryn. And as I said above she doesn't have to control them. All Sansa needs is a good PR campaign and LF is a master at that. Only Varys might be better. If the people rally to support her, they won't care what their Lords Paramount say. Heck that's Bolton and Frey. Every Northerner wants the Boltons gone, and half of Westeros is anti_Frey now. This is exactly the kind of thing LF is good at, forging secret alliances for his own ends.

I don't even think he's necessarily going to be able to get all three regions for her, which is part of the beauty of the whole thing. LF goes down, Aegon becomes dissatisfied with the wife who wasn't as valuable as she was marketed to be, and takes off with his flirty cousin.

[Tannim]

No surprise the initial proposal outline didn't survive contact with Martin's organic writing style. Me thinks he's since made up for ditching the old triangle with a few current ones...

Jon has Val making suggestive comments at him, while Melisandre has an eye on him.

Arya has one girlish crush on Gendry and hadn't a clue what to do about it, and no one to ask.

Tryion has two failed loves, plus currently someone else carrying a torch for him.

Sansa has Littlefingers in lust for her, while Sandor is in denial even as she has her fantasies about him.

Jamie has had Cersie, then gained Brienne, and there's Martin's homage to Beauty and the Beast.

Plus the ongoing soap opera that is Dany's love life. :dunno:

Just off the top of my head.

[Lee-Sensei]

Again, Sansa doesn't have to have control of it. She personally wouldn't even bring it up. Littlefinger is going to be playing that angle. And all he has to do is say he can deliver it. By the time anyone finds out he can't make good on the promises (if he can't) it will be too late for Aegon to go back on his word. Really, you don't seem to see how LF works. Instead you seem to think Sansa is going to suddenly stand up and be Elizabeth I.

The show? For one thing we don't know for sure that they've been cut (they could pull a season finale surprise with Aegon landing in Westeros in the last five minutes of the episode), and for another, so what? They've killed off characters who are still alive and have important things to do. They've also combined characters. They may have cut Aegon and wrapped Arianne in with Lady Nym, which would rather indicate that A&A's story-lines don't go together.

Aegon is actually IN Westeros, as opposed to Dany who is missing and presumed dead. Tell me how Littlefinger is going to know not to back Aegon.

When GRRM puts a neon sign in, 99% of the time it's a sure indication that what's on the sign isn't going to happen. The bigger the sign, the brighter the flash, the farther from what will actually occur. That would be how people can ignore said sign.

I didn't say Aegon will get Dorne's support. I said he expects it. This is a nineteen year old boy. Moron is to be expected. I know and you know that he shouldn't consider it a slam-dunk. But Aegon, having not read the books, does not know it.

Sansa's storyline does not require Aegon. And I never said it did. I'm just proposing it as a possibility, and countering arguments that claim it wouldn't work. Even you have to see that as a former queen she'd have far more independence and agency than as just Sansa Stark. No, she doesn't "need" more suffering, but this is not a warm-fuzzies kind of series. No character's suffering is done yet. The girl is 13/14. She's got more hard knocks coming up. The only safe characters in this series are the dead ones, and even they don't always get to rest.

Harry the heir is not the goal. Petyr Baelish does not think that small. And she can't marry Harry without an annulment...which requires going to King's Landing. Which means a trial. The trial of seven will probably even be Littlefinger's idea. I expect Harry to fight in it, and die.

Using the skill-set on Harry is practice before going after big game.

What people want in this series and what they actually get tend to be worlds apart.

Littlefinger. Lord of Harrenhal, Lord Protector for Robert Arryn. And as I said above she doesn't have to control them. All Sansa needs is a good PR campaign and LF is a master at that. Only Varys might be better. If the people rally to support her, they won't care what their Lords Paramount say. Heck that's Bolton and Frey. Every Northerner wants the Boltons gone, and half of Westeros is anti_Frey now. This is exactly the kind of thing LF is good at, forging secret alliances for his own ends.

I don't even think he's necessarily going to be able to get all three regions for her, which is part of the beauty of the whole thing. LF goes down, Aegon becomes dissatisfied with the wife who wasn't as valuable as she was marketed to be, and takes off with his flirty cousin.

All of that is irrelevant. He has very few allies among the Riverlands and Vale bannermen.

[Colonel Green]

Regarding the OP, Arya is currently 11 years old, and hasn't even had her period yet. Considering the rate of temporal advancement in the series is very low, I would suggest the odds of her being in a love triangle of any kind are slim indeed.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

All of that is irrelevant. He has very few allies among the Riverlands and Vale bannermen.

He doesn't need allies. He has Sansa to dangle in front of them, and gold to pay them off if necessary. And like I said he doesn't even have to deliver, just promise that he can.

[Lee-Sensei]

He doesn't need allies. He has Sansa to dangle in front of them, and gold to pay them off if necessary. And like I said he doesn't even have to deliver, just promise that he can.

You're assuming that they'd care.

[Annara Snow]

When GRRM puts a neon sign in, 99% of the time it's a sure indication that what's on the sign isn't going to happen. The bigger the sign, the brighter the flash, the farther from what will actually occur. That would be how people can ignore said sign.

Really? You're saying that GRRM, in 99% of cases, sets up a big storyline involving a POV character, and then abruptly drops it in an anticlimactic manner, only to he could laugh at his readers: "Ha ha, got you! Psych!" Tell me just one example. Not 99%, just one example.

There is none. That would be terrible writing, and he is not a terrible writer.

I didn't say Aegon will get Dorne's support. I said he expects it. This is a nineteen year old boy. Moron is to be expected. I know and you know that he shouldn't consider it a slam-dunk. But Aegon, having not read the books, does not know it.

He's got JonCon and other adults around him to advise him. Not to mention Varys, who seems strangely to disappear entirely in your vision of Aegon's story, with Littlefinger taking over his storyline and plans as if he doesn't have his own already, while Varys becomes completely insignificant. Another thing that is extremely unlikely to happen in these books.

One don't have to have read the books to know that Dornish support and alliance must be gained and maintained, one just needs an ounce of common sense.

Sansa's storyline does not require Aegon. And I never said it did.

What would be the point then of squeezing him into her story, with just two books remaining, and both characters having different story lines with different characters in different geographical locations?

[Amber W]

When I read that outline I was so disappointed in GRRM. The worst part is that I think there's a significant chance he's still planning to go ahead with some of it. In this case, a Jon/Arya/Tyrion triangle seems exceedingly unlikely, but I think a Gendry/Arya/Jon triangle could very much become a thing, no matter how much I dislike it.

I always thought Arya and Jon would end up meeting each other again and that something significant would come from it, but not this. However, now that I look at it from this angle, it seems quite likely GRRM is working towards it: there's the fact they think about each other a lot, Arya keeping Needle and it grounding her as she continues her training, Jon's rushing out to save her, abandoning his vows etc.

Tyrion's relation to Sansa and the fact that he doesn't think twice about Arya seems to rule this out, but Gentry could be a likely replacement; if there's going to be a triangle, he seems the only likely candidate given that he seemed to have feelings for Arya (and visa versa). It would also harken back to Robert/Lyana/Rhaegar, and GRRM does seem to like these parallels.

All in all, I think this is quite likely to happen - even if the thought makes me queasy.

[Steelborn]

Arya's husband resembles Asha's. His name is Needle.

So, Asha/Needle/Arya love triangle?

[Steelborn]

If the love triangle is still in, Jon/Dany/Tyrion is the most likely in my opinion.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

If the love triangle is still in, Jon/Dany/Tyrion is the most likely in my opinion.

This particular trio is very unlikely IMO. A triangle that includes Dany will inherently include Jorah too. Give the man some credit! :P

And frankly, Tyrion can not qualify as a romantic rival. No man would seriously feel threatened by him in that regard...

[Annara Snow]

This particular trio is very unlikely IMO. A triangle that includes Dany will inherently include Jorah too. Give the man some credit! :P

And frankly, Tyrion can not qualify as a romantic rival. No man would seriously feel threatened by him in that regard...

Well, the triangle in the original outline just involved Tyrion being in unrequited love with Arya. It's a "two guys want the same woman, but she clearly prefers one of them, and the other one is bitter about it" type of triangle, like Bloodraven/Shiera/Bittersteel, not a "woman torn between two men" type of triangle.

[Steelborn]

This particular trio is very unlikely IMO. A triangle that includes Dany will inherently include Jorah too. Give the man some credit! :P

And frankly, Tyrion can not qualify as a romantic rival. No man would seriously feel threatened by him in that regard...

Well, I think Tyrion will come to love her but he won't be a threat to Jon in any level. It will be just an unrequited love for his part.

You're right, of course. It will be a case of quadrangle love. Poor Jorah and Tyrion.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Well, the triangle in the original outline just involved Tyrion being in unrequited love with Arya. It's a "two guys want the same woman, but she clearly prefers one of them, and the other one is bitter about it" type of triangle, like Bloodraven/Shiera/Bittersteel, not a "woman torn between two men" type of triangle.

The outline also says that it will lead to a deadly rivalry between the two, and I can't see such a rivalry develop without at least some insecurity from one part...

Like, Shiera repeatedly refused to mary Bloodraven, he might have (irrationally, maybe?) attributed it to Bittersteel. Who knows...