Refugee Crisis 2 - a warm welcome in Germany

[Fragile Bird]

An extraordinary scene at the station in Munich as trains carrying refugees from Austria are welcomed by the people of the city.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34162844

Carry on.

[DireWolfSpirit]

I noticed an intriguing headline (@HuffPost) about an Egyptian billionaire who is offering to buy the refugees an island.

[Fragile Bird]

So did I, but I don't think any are available, and if a government was willing to sell him an Island, the people who live there now might not be too happy about it.

[baxus]

So did I, but I don't think any are available, and if a government was willing to sell him an Island, the people who live there now might not be too happy about it.

I don't think that people who he'd like to settle there would like it any better.

 

Most of the refugees I encountered in my lifetime are heading somewhere where they have friends and family who can help them get started in the new surroundings.

Rounding them up on an island would hardly do that.

 

There are quite a few hurdles to be jumped over before that island idea could become reality.

• An island big enough to house literally millions of people (if I've read the right sources, some 4 million people fled Syria, and I don't know how much fled Afghanistan and Iraq) needs to be picked, 
• Housing, schools, hospitals and all the infrastructure would need to be built to accomodate new population.
• Jobs for all those people would need to be created in order for the island to become somewhat self-sufficient.

Even if money wasn't an issue, and I don't think that there is a single person in the world who could bankroll all that, time would still be a huge problem.

 

All in all, that idea seems more like a marketing stunt than anything else.

[Malik Ambar]

Why is the attitude of German and Austrian Governments polar opposite to that of Czech or Hungarian Governments ?

[arya_underfoot]

An extraordinary scene at the station in Munich as trains carrying refugees from Austria are welcomed by the people of the city.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34162844

Carry on.

 

Wow! Be proud, people of Germany. Hopefully you will shame others into acting. 

[Arakan]

Why is the attitude of German and Austrian Governments polar opposite to that of Czech or Hungarian Governments ?

One reason might be that in contrast to e.g. UK or France, many Germans still alive know what it means to loose your home and evth due to war. Roughly 1/4 of all Germans today are descendants of those who had to flee/were expulsed from the East.

When your grandfather or grandmother tells his/her story, this is not really different to the story of a refugee from Syria or Afghanistan.

[Crixus]

Uplifting news, much needed.

[Arkhangel]

I noticed an intriguing headline (@HuffPost) about an Egyptian billionaire who is offering to buy the refugees an island.

 

This particular generous but misguided man has been floating that concept for a while, and keeps bringing it back up despite everyone from governments to international aid organisations to refugees themselves telling him it's a terrible, terrible idea.

[Crixus]

Agreed. Completely impractical.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Why is the attitude of German and Austrian Governments polar opposite to that of Czech or Hungarian Governments ?

At least the Austrian government parties seem to have realised that it is not possible to beat the right wing opposition at their game(and they have been trying...) and decided that acting humane is the only way to keep at least some of their voters. I expect huge losses for them in the regional elections (which are just around the corner) though. The people who welcome refugees are not in the majority I fear.

[Eyron]

One reason might be that in contrast to e.g. UK or France, many Germans still alive know what it means to loose your home and evth due to war. Roughly 1/4 of all Germans today are descendants of those who had to flee/were expulsed from the East.

When your grandfather or grandmother tells his/her story, this is not really different to the story of a refugee from Syria or Afghanistan.

I think this is one reason why Sweden has a more open policy than many other countries too. Firstly, many are descendants of war children from Finland, who stayed, and from Finns who moved here after the war for better opportunities.
Secondly, my generation and the younger generations grew up with children who's families had fled or moved here. From the middle east, former Yugoslavia, various nations in Africa etc. Now it's Afghanistan, Somalia, Irak and Syria which most come from.
My parents generation grew up with the refugees from WW2.
So quite possibly, there's a national guilt that plays into it as well. We didn't officially accept Jewish refugees into the country until the end of WW2.

I am not sure if the numbers are the same for other nations, but of the about 100.000 who will seek asylum here this year, about 12.000 are children arriving alone, no parents. Last year the number were almost as high. I don't want to imagine their long journeys here or how they had to separate from their families.
There have been a number of media pieces and coverage in the news over the last two years, about these kids, and I imagine this can have influenced the opinion of many.

[Martell Spy]

Now the Pope is getting involved. I'm not sure how this works though, if the State disagrees with the parish about allowing the immigrants in. Catholic churches provided refuge here in the States for undocumented immigrants at times, but I never heard about them bringing them into the country.

 

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pope-calls-on-every-european-parish-to-take-in-one-migrant-family_55ec205ee4b03784e276184e

 

Pope Calls On Every European Parish To Take In One Migrant Family

[A Horse Named Stranger]

One reason might be that in contrast to e.g. UK or France, many Germans still alive know what it means to loose your home and evth due to war. Roughly 1/4 of all Germans today are descendants of those who had to flee/were expulsed from the East.

When your grandfather or grandmother tells his/her story, this is not really different to the story of a refugee from Syria or Afghanistan.

 

If that was the reason, the Poles would be at least as open hearted towards the refugees. The Poles lost a big chunk of their country to Russia/the Soviet Union after WW II. Poland was compensated with formerly German territories So the Poles know, what it feels like to be driven off their land, too. 

 

To be fair, Poland has taken in a rather large number of refugees. Just not from the Middle East, they have taken in a large number of people fleeing the Ukraine. And many without putting them through all the bureaucratic procedures. I can also to some degree understand the reluctance of the baltic states to take in refugees, because they already have a (Russian) minority that makes up to 30% of their population. And they have not convincingly integrated those. 

 

The other Eastern European countries the Czech Republic, Slovakia and particularly Hungary are a different story.

Sooner or later (rather later is my guess), we will see two things happening. The end of the Dublin II regulation and some sort of quota distribution. On the short run, I can very well see Germany strong arming the reluctant countries Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia to take in at least some of the refugees.

Germany and France are pushing for it, the southern states like Greece, Italy and Spain who are at the moment the suckers that have to deal with that huge refugee numbers will be happy to get some sort of relief, so they will back it, too. 

[Fragile Bird]

Now the Pope is getting involved. I'm not sure how this works though, if the State disagrees with the parish about allowing the immigrants in. Catholic churches provided refuge here in the States for undocumented immigrants at times, but I never heard about them bringing them into the country.
 
 
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pope-calls-on-every-european-parish-to-take-in-one-migrant-family_55ec205ee4b03784e276184e
 
Pope Calls On Every European Parish To Take In One Migrant Family

In North America probably the biggest group of sponsors comes from church-goers.

Think about it. Every Sunday you have a like-thinking group of people who already do good works in the community (in both Canada and the United States, charitable donations and church attendance are directly correlated, as church attendance decreases so do charitable donations) getting together and talking about issues. Sponsoring a family would be an easy project for a church group. Are people in your workplace going to sponsor a family? Are people at your gym going to sponsor a family? Is your bowling league or your soccer team going to sponsor a family? Maybe, maybe not. But people who go to church will.

We have a right wing government in Canada that has tried to disguise itself as a centrist party, but actions speak louder than words. One of the things they did was declare only 'official' refugees could be sponsored ie people who have been individually designated refugees by the UN, not, say, Syrians who have fled the country, just individuals who have been interviewed by the UN and designated as refugees. The number given here is 14,000 families to date, out of the millions of people who are fleeing Syria.

The designation can be given by a country as well, but that's exactly what countries like Hungary are refusing to do, because once the designation is made the person acquires status in that country and is supposed to make applications in that country.

The next thing the Canadian government did was cap the number of refugees a church could sponsor. For example, the Mennonites sponsored 229 refugees in 2011; after the cap was imposed, they only could sponsor 29 in 2012. The federal government said they did it to 'deal with the backlog'.

Canada created a Private Sponsorship of Refugees program back in 1978 to set down rules to deal with the Vietnamese boat people crisis. Under the program groups sign an agreement setting out what their obligations are with regard to people they sponsor. There are 85 groups, almost all of which are either churches or church-related organizations. The most important obligation is to have a certain amount of money in hand before application can be made. ie $25,000 to support a family of 4 for one year. 85% of refugee sponsorships in Canada are these privately managed ones, the rest are government sponsorships.

[lojzelote]

Why is the attitude of German and Austrian Governments polar opposite to that of Czech or Hungarian Governments ?

I'm not sure about Hungary, but as for the Czech Republic, basically, the reasons are mostly public opinion, economic possibilities, and the face of our political leaders (you can call it a demonstration of sovereignty, if you will). From what I've seen, most people don't believe we're in any way responsible for this mess, our standard of living including our social system is nowhere near Germany's (our own senior citizens who worked their whole life hard can hardly get by in many cases), most people are atheists and many view religion with distrust (oh, it's not just Islam, though that one certainly tops at the moment).

 

Also, in the past we had a very prominent ethnic minority, albeit one very culturally similar to us (the Germans), we couldn't get along very well and it ended with the Munich Agreement (in the schools it's still termed as the Munich Betrayal, or at least was a few years past), which in its consequences led to the German Expulsion after the war. It's still a touchy subject, not only in regards to Germany, but also the UK and France, who had shown back then they don't consider us equal partners.

Not to mention, we've been having huge problems with the integration of the Romas, who've been living on our territory for centuries.

 

So while I haven't held any survey, I'd say that many people are afraid of the permanent presence of a completely alien culture, especially since they're almost every day bombed with the news of honor killings, car-burning riots, pro-IS or pro-Sharia demonstrations in the Western cities, second and third-generation muslim immigrants getting radicalized, leaving Europe to fight for the IS or returning back to carry out terrorist attacks on the Westerners, etc.There are serious doubts if we could ever possibly integrate a higher number of muslims since we haven't even manage properly integrate the Romas after all this time (especially since the newcomers would want to keep their customs and cultural differences).

 

Anyway, there's the belief that most of these immigrant are economic migrants, and since Merkel proclaimed Germany won't turn any of the Syrians away (which will undoubtedly only bring more of them, both Syrians and non-Syrians) and they all want to go Germany and have little interest to stay in our country anyhow (it's a fact very few asked for asylum here in comparison to the number of people who use us as a bridge to Germany), then Germany should play fair and keep them and stop the talk of redistribution and compulsory quotas, since Merkel didn't bother to debate her decision with our political leaders in the first place. I've also seen comments that the Western European countries will take those who have passable prospects to be integrated and seddle the East with the leavings they deem undesirable.

Plus, there's no final number of the immigrants who should be taken in in the following years, it's well possible they will total millions.

[dalThor]

More good news out of Germany.

 

 

 

Germany plans to double aid currently given to Greece for dealing with the refugee crisis to 2.4 million euros, the German foreign ministry announced.

 

[Fragile Bird]

More good news out of Germany.

 
 

Dal, this morning I heard a story that the Germans had actually offered to forgive Greece's debt and give them millions of Euros if Greece would leave the EU and take on the responsibility of looking after all Syrian refugees. If Greece was not in the EU, the refugees could not then cross into the rest of the EU, goes the story. What are you hearing in Greece?

And maybe this is a discussion for the Greek thread.

[Arakan]

Dal, this morning I heard a story that the Germans had actually offered to forgive Greece's debt and give them millions of Euros if Greece would leave the EU and take on the responsibility of looking after all Syrian refugees. If Greece was not in the EU, the refugees could not then cross into the rest of the EU, goes the story. What are you hearing in Greece?

And maybe this is a discussion for the Greek thread.

This story is made-up bullshit.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Source?

Otherwise I wold place that "news" into the realms of "Hoaxes and Myths"

 

It would void all the efforts the German goverment put into keeping Greece in the Eurozone and it would not stop the stream of refugees. They would still continue their march towards central Europe.