NFL 2015 Week 12: Karma Is Real, Jerry Jones

[Rockroi]

The calls are getting worse.

 

Apparently, the refs are starting to resent Dean Blandino (head of officials) for, in effect, calling them out on the bad calls on the air and then moving refs who catch heat for bad calls etc.  

[Maithanet]

Bad calls happen all over the league.  I was actually pleased that although the Redskins had more penalty yardage, the game was mostly free of referees making pivotal calls. 

Speaking of which, I am undergoing very mixed feelings about this 5-6 Redskins team.  The good news is that we are in first place in the East, and the other three teams are varying kinds of terrible, such that even a 3-2 finish will probably win the division.  Even being relevant in December is a nice change of pace, so that's exciting.  The bad news is that it doesn't change the fact that this team really isn't very good, and is one of the most inconsistent teams I have ever watched. 

And, as a fan, I want my team to be good, I don't want my team to somehow succeed in spite of not being good.  And for Redskins fans, just making the playoffs is definitely success.  We haven't been nearly good enough to be disappointed with a one-and-done showing.  I just don't really know what to make of it, but I'm trying to enjoy the ride.  The Giants game was mostly fun, and I was glad that my confidence in them not blowing a 20-0 4th quarter lead was well placed, although they made it pretty dicey at the end. 

[Maithanet]

Also, on Gronk, when I saw that leg whip, it looked exactly like the RG3 injury he got against the Ravens in 2012.  He played two weeks later (although was obviously still injured).  I'm not a doctor or anything, but I'd be optimistic that Gronk will be fine in a month. 

[Mexal]

Also, on Gronk, when I saw that leg whip, it looked exactly like the RG3 injury he got against the Ravens in 2012.  He played two weeks later (although was obviously still injured).  I'm not a doctor or anything, but I'd be optimistic that Gronk will be fine in a month. 

The word coming out of NE right now is that it's not a serious injury and I think that's likely true given his leg wasn't planted.

Apparently, the refs are starting to resent Dean Blandino (head of officials) for, in effect, calling them out on the bad calls on the air and then moving refs who catch heat for bad calls etc.  

Then they need to get better at their jobs. Blandino has to go on air every week to apologize for yet another wrong decision a ref made that changed the very nature of the game. It has to be tiresome for him too. 

[Fez]

I'm somewhat surprised the Jets won yesterday, but certainly pleased that they at least temporarily saved their season. They started off 4-1, went 1-4 in the next 5 games to get to 5-5 and are now 6-5 and definitely in the hunt for a wildcard. If they could've won just 1 more of those last 5 games (and they absolutely should've been able to win that vs. Bills game) they'd have poll position for the #5 spot. Instead they are 1 of 5 teams at 6-5 (although either the Texans or Colts will take their division instead) and are currently not a wildcard due to tie-breakers. 

There's a lot of season left to play, but the Jets have almost no margin for error. Because of their bad tiebreakers, they probably need to reach 10-6 to make it in, and that Patriots game will almost certainly be loss #6. Maybe they could sneak in at 9-7, but only if the Texans win the division instead of the Colts.

Of course, if yesterday was a fluke, and they continue to play the way they did during that 1-4 stretch, this is all moot. But hope springs eternal. Next up, a "road" game against the Giants.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

The calls are getting worse.

 

Apparently, the refs are starting to resent Dean Blandino (head of officials) for, in effect, calling them out on the bad calls on the air and then moving refs who catch heat for bad calls etc.

What upsets me most is how the hell are the refs missing blatant roughing the passer calls. Repeatedly in the same game. If a team gets away with one they will do more until they get called.

[Rockroi]

Then they need to get better at their jobs. Blandino has to go on air every week to apologize for yet another wrong decision a ref made that changed the very nature of the game. It has to be tiresome for him too. 

I understand that.  But I think that once you introduce Instant Replay you are tacitly admitting that the game moves too quickly and that mistakes are going to be made.  We know that anyway because human errors are human. 

I mean, not to back up the refs but ... its a fucking hard job.  They get dictates from the league that say "Watch out for everything but put special emphasis X, Y and Z."  Then they have the head coaches who lobby them saying "Look, player A does this, that and the other thing.  So look for that."  

 

Then the game actually starts and ... its 22 guys out there... all doing completely different things.  Look at a basketball team- all those guys are doing almost exactly the same thing: taking and defending shots, passing etc.  In baseball, only 2-4 players (AT MOST) are involved in any one play.  In football, all 22 guys are in motion every play and every one of them is doing something DIRECTLY against another player; its not just motion but constant action with multiple players doing multiple things.  

 

And they are moving ... fucking fast.  And against one another.  Constantly.

 

So, to have your boss getting ON NATIONAL TV ... and he's pointing out the mistakes.  Now, don't get me wrong, because so many teams are so spectacularly close, those mistakes matter wayyyyy too much.  But I cannot imagine feeling good because I made ONE mistake in 6 weeks and then my boss goes on TV and the only time he talks about ANYTHING is to say "Rockroi made a mistake."  

 

Gee... thanks... 

 

I don't want to leave the wrong impression: I totally get being upset at the refs for horrid calls.  Last night the refs made a bundle of them.  And the problem my rant does NOT absolve the refs of is the arbitrary nature of certain HIGHLY important calls (ie: PI on both sides of the ball).  But I can see how the refs are getting a little peeved here.  And the refs are only partially to blame for clock management (I THINK!)

 

But, hey, at least the Refs finally nailed down the "Everyone-In-the-League-But-Gronk" Rule.  

[Mexal]

I agree it's a hard job. But poor ref calls are changing games so the next logical step is to make penalties reviewable. Put a limit on it and treat it similar to the way it is today but allow coaches to challenge a PI that gives up 50 yards in field position or a block in the back that takes away 50 yards in field position or a roughing the passer call on 3rd and long that gives a first down. It's time.

As for the clock situation, the NFL is responsible for that, as are the refs. And they did it exactly right last night. So at least there's that...

[Rockroi]

I agree it's a hard job. But poor ref calls are changing games so the next logical step is to make penalties reviewable. Put a limit on it and treat it similar to the way it is today but allow coaches to challenge a PI that gives up 50 yards in field position or a block in the back that takes away 50 yards in field position or a roughing the passer call on 3rd and long that gives a first down. It's time.

Belichcik has been calling for all plays to be reviewable all the time and has been saying so for years.  

I can't say I would love watching that.  But, the door is very much open for that.  

 

Still does not solve the "Gronk-running-near-an-defensive-player" rule.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

So here's a fun question: Which division is worse, the NFC East or AFC South?

 

Also, why is the Monday night game Ravens at Browns? why? Why? WHY? Someone needs to be fired for that!

[Jace, Extat]

Similar thing happened in the Vikings/Falcons game.

A flag was thrown.

Both commentators said it's an obvious holding call.

On replay it was an obvious holding call.

The ref that threw the flag clearly siginals holding on the offense.

Head ref calls, "illegal hands to the face, defense."

Er...WTF!

That's... disturbing.

The impression I was left with after the Hilton review was first that commercial where the refs are like 'ah, nobody saw what happened... Jeff scratch your head like you're thinking. Donnie, make a juggling motion...' and then a fan shouts 'your mic's on!'

But what I think most likely happened was they went to replay and the New York people said 'stay with the call on the field'. Which both makes sense in the context and is fucking absurd.

Here's the thing. I don't know if T.Y. caught the ball. What happened was he was running an out and Hasselbeck short-armed the ball. T.Y. goes down to get it, and you can see that he gets his hand under the ball but it's kinda unclear if the nose of the ball hits the ground simultaneously. In that situation, I totally get staying with the call on the field. But it was called both a catch and an incompletion, with incomplete being the final call before the review.

What's disturbing is that the league's making comments about how they're working hard to centralize review, and the only explanation is that they looked at that and said 'stay with the call' without knowing what the original call was or else the ref wouldn't have said 'the ruling is confirmed, it is a completion...'

To be clear, this wasn't a situation where he clearly misspoke as in 'the ruling on the field stands, complete, er, incomplete.' He called that shit a confirmed catch and someone clearly told him 'no, it was called incomplete on the field'. Am I making any sense with my concern here? I feel like I'm not adequately getting my point across.

Anyways.

I'd like to welcome you all to our new segment of the show, it's called: FUCK IT, I'M GOING DEEP!

The Bears are gonna make the playoffs. That's right, I said it. And you can take it up to the bank. After a detailed analysis of the schedules (it took 3 whole minutes), I think it's extremely possible that they win out from here.

49'ers

Washingtons

@ Vikings

@ Bucs

Lions

The Bears are a mediocre team at best, but after obliterating the Rams then taking Denver to a failed 2-point attempt and pulling off a win @ Green Bay... why shouldn't they be favored to win all of those games except Vikings? And they should have beaten Minnesota earlier this year if it weren't for a dropped 3rd down conversion and the defense absolutely collapsing in the final 2 minutes. If Alshon Jeffery and Matt Forte can find five weeks' worth of health in their bodies, I think the Bears' sneaky-mediocre defense can hang with these anemic offenses and Jay's continued 'eh, not too bad' play would be enough to get Da' Bares into a #6 seed!!!

[Rockroi]

Yeah, IIRC, the Monday Night Football game schedule is the old Sunday Night Football schedule that was attached to TBS/TNN (can't remember which had it).  They are not, traditionally, good games.  This was part of the deal and was discussed in that Oral History of ESPN book.  

[sperry]

I agree it's a hard job. But poor ref calls are changing games so the next logical step is to make penalties reviewable. Put a limit on it and treat it similar to the way it is today but allow coaches to challenge a PI that gives up 50 yards in field position or a block in the back that takes away 50 yards in field position or a roughing the passer call on 3rd and long that gives a first down. It's time.

As for the clock situation, the NFL is responsible for that, as are the refs. And they did it exactly right last night. So at least there's that...

I think the more palatable solution is to just hire full time fucking refs, and get rid of the referees union. I'm not a labor lawyer, so don't know how feasible that second part is, but the ideal solution is to hire full-time, well compensated officials who are held accountable on a performance basis. If you routinely blow calls, you get fired.

[Mexal]

Also, why is the Monday night game Ravens at Browns? why? Why? WHY? Someone needs to be fired for that!

To be fair, no one thought the Ravens would be this bad or have this many injuries and the Browns have JCFF, who was supposed to start plus it's a division match up. I can see why this would be an enticing game in April.

[Reny of Storms End]

I think the more palatable solution is to just hire full time fucking refs, and get rid of the referees union. I'm not a labor lawyer, so don't know how feasible that second part is, but the ideal solution is to hire full-time, well compensated officials who are held accountable on a performance basis. If you routinely blow calls, you get fired.

I agree that this should be the next step towards fixing inconsistent reffing. Making everything reviewable would be the final step if that failed to solve the problem. 

[Howdyphillip]

And I never felt "entitled" and its not entitled to say "Look, after X # of major injuries (not just one or two... or three... or four... ) and then seeing the best part of your offense go down to say "That's the breaking point of this team to go to the Super Bowl.  I can see that." 

 

 

Sometimes I come across as harsh... I hope that you do have the understanding that I really do have respect and even a bit of admiration for you. You are one of my favorite people to interact with here on the board.

Having said that, I don't think you understand how full of it you are when you talk about entitlement. Your Boo Hooing the AFC Championship game absolutely proves it. Your team has gone on a decade and a half unprecedented run, and it certainly has effected your perspective. 

I can understand your outlook. As a Cowboys fan, I went through a very similar experience.  Growing up, every season that the Cowboys didn't win, or at least go to the Superbowl was a year that they didn't live up to expectations. It has been 20 years now, and our fans still have some of this as left over residual. The Patriots are there now.

All teams suffer major injuries every year. The Patriots have only been slightly more unfortunate than most teams this year. I would trade your injury woes for my Cowboy's without blinking an eye. The fact remains that the Patriots are still the prohibitive favorites in this league to win the title. 

 

[Rockroi]

Sometimes I come across as harsh... I hope that you do have the understanding that I really do have respect and even a bit of admiration for you. You are one of my favorite people to interact with here on the board. 

Well... now I just feel bad for you.  Who would EVER want to interact with me?  MY clients don't even like interacting with me.

But regardless, the feeling is mutual and thank you for the complement.  Very nice of you. 

Having said that, I don't think you understand how full of it you are when you talk about entitlement. Your Boo Hooing the AFC Championship game absolutely proves it. Your team has gone on a decade and a half unprecedented run, and it certainly has effected your perspective. 

I can understand your outlook. As a Cowboys fan, I went through a very similar experience.  Growing up, every season that the Cowboys didn't win, or at least go to the Superbowl was a year that they didn't live up to expectations. It has been 20 years now, and our fans still have some of this as left over residual. The Patriots are there now. 

But in this regard, you are not talking about "entitlement"; you are talking about "expectations."  And some expectations are reasonable and some are not.  I think you can expect the Pats to go deep into the playoffs after you saw the first 8 weeks of the season.  That's a "reasonable" expectation,  

Believing the Browns have a legit shot to win the AFC North every season is not.  

To me "entitlement" means that I feel that X will happen.  No me, entitlement talk is when somebody says "As long as they have Belichick and Brady, Pats will make it to the SB every season" (people do say that).  Entitlement means that I am angry if the Pats have a bad season or game and go nuts (as an example, my reaction to the KC game last season would be a more accurate example of "entitlement" but even then I said the issue was the inability of Belichick to give Brady appropriate O support... I regret my decisions).  

 

Entitlement also means you don't believe OTHER teams don't deserve to win.  Case-in-point the 2010 collapse by the Pats to the Marc-Sanchez-lead Jets in the Divisional round.  Holy fuck that game sucked to see. But the Jets DESERVED to win that game.  And, in fact, the way the Jets won has still been the model for confusing Brady since (ie: the "roaming cows" defense where D-linemen, LBs and even safeties will just stand in the middle of the field, nobody will get down in the 3-point stance and just stand there before the snap).  

 

To me, Entitlement means "I deserve THIS and NOBODY ELSE DOES!"   And I do not feel that way.  Again, 2013, I earnestly felt that the Broncos deserved to win that game.

 

Again, I just want to clarify that.  

 

All teams suffer major injuries every year. The Patriots have only been slightly more unfortunate than most teams this year. I would trade your injury woes for my Cowboy's without blinking an eye. The fact remains that the Patriots are still the prohibitive favorites in this league to win the title.  

Let me say that if there is ONE saving grace to the Pats injury woes, few have been definitively season-ending.  Lewis, Solder and Dobson (the last of whom I have not mentioned at all) are the only true IR fatalities.  Yeah, Sodler as the starting LT should be huge, but many out here were quick to point out that Solder's loss would not be that big of a deal (so far that has been true; most problems are at the interior of the line, not out on the edges).  Lewis was big but ... Pats didn't have LEws last season either... But Amendola, Edleman, LaFell, Collins and so far supposedly Gronk have all been only transitional.  I am grateful for that.

 

But its at the high-end of the Pats talent pool.  Its not just random players, but the very, very high end of the Pats skill-players.  Its not just Collins and Hightower who are incredibly important, but also the entire starting WR core has been injured for chunks of time.  Now with the loss of Gronk (which could be as little as one game ... or even less) the Pats have run out of actual talent that can all play consistently at an NFL level.  This is not one or two positions but, really, all of them (save ... one).  

 

That's not just "everyone suffers a few injuries."  And while I appreciate you saying that the Pats are "slightly" more unfortunate than most teams, I think they are on the very high end of injury impact.  Now, granted, I am talking to a man whose team is suffering from catastrophic injuries at QB and WR, arguably the two most important positions in football and QB is EASILY the most important position all of sports.  

 

In that regard, yeah, I am more grateful than I let on.  

 

[Mexal]

But its at the high-end of the Pats talent pool.  Its not just random players, but the very, very high end of the Pats skill-players.  Its not just Collins and Hightower who are incredibly important, but also the entire starting WR core has been injured for chunks of time.  Now with the loss of Gronk (which could be as little as one game ... or even less) the Pats have run out of actual talent that can all play consistently at an NFL level.  This is not one or two positions but, really, all of them (save ... one).  

That's not just "everyone suffers a few injuries."  And while I appreciate you saying that the Pats are "slightly" more unfortunate than most teams, I think they are on the very high end of injury impact.  Now, granted, I am talking to a man whose team is suffering from catastrophic injuries at QB and WR, arguably the two most important positions in football and QB is EASILY the most important position all of sports.  

Just be happy you have Brady and Belichick. With those two, you can put in replacement players and still move the ball down the field. And being the Pats, you can get away with using injuries as an excuse for sub-optimal play. If you were the Bengals, that's not a valid excuse as we saw in last season's playoff game.

[Maithanet]

Have the Pats even had that many injuries on defense?  Collins doesn't count, he was sick.  Hightower got hurt this week, but that's not exactly a trend.  The Patriots defense has been really good, and the formula this year has been Brady protects the ball + solid defense.  That formula works.  Brady and Belichick can't put up 30 points every week with a bunch of replacement guys on offense, but thanks to the defense, most weeks they don't have to. 

[sperry]

Fans tend to get really obnoxious when their teams enjoy sustained success. Happens across all sports and geographic regions.