Stannis' Dragonstone

[Hugorfonics]

Was it a slight like Stannis and Cersei say?

Why would Robert slight Stannis?

Dragonstone is a powerful base, the Realms Delight and her brother sought sanctuary  there during The Dance. Perhaps Robert didn't trust Renly the child with this grave responsibility?

 

[Butterfreak]

I'm pretty sure it was Robert's way of recognising Stannis as his heir.  Stannis just took it as a slight, I doubt Robert intended it that way.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

It was not a slight. It was a generous gift.

 

Stannis was born a second son, his brother made him his Master of Ships and gave him Dragonstone (as well as control over the rich Driftmark and other Crownland vassals). While the Stormlands might control more land it might be that Dragonstone, with its islands and the royal fleet, may have controlled more money and military.

[Hugorfonics]

But Stannis didn't see it that way

"And Stannis has always felt he was cheated of Storm's End," Cersei said thoughtfully. "The ancestral seat of House Baratheon, his by rights . . . if you knew how many times he came to Robert singing that same dull song in that gloomy aggrieved tone he has. When Robert gave the place to Renly, Stannis clenched his jaw so tight I thought his teeth would shatter."

"He took it as a slight."The 

"It was meant as a slight," Cersei said.

Why wouldn't Robert at least explain the need of Stannis at Dragonstone?

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

But Stannis didn't see it that way

Why wouldn't Robert at least explain the need of Stannis at Dragonstone?

 

Maybe he did and Stannis didn't listen. Maybe Robert got tired of constantly having to massage his younger brothers feelings after being extremely generous.

 

Stannis always resented being given Dragonstone while Renly got Storm's End, and took that as a slight... but it's not necessarily true that Robert meant it that way. The Targaryen heir apparent had always been titled Prince of Dragonstone. By making Stannis the Lord of Dragonstone, Robert affirmed his brother's status as heir (which he was, until Joff's birth a few years later). Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End. Giving them to his brothers instead was another instance of his great, but rather careless, generosity.-GRRM

 

[Hugorfonics]

Maybe he did and Stannis didn't listen. Maybe Robert got tired of constantly having to massage his younger brothers feelings after being extremely generous.

 

Stannis always resented being given Dragonstone while Renly got Storm's End, and took that as a slight... but it's not necessarily true that Robert meant it that way. The Targaryen heir apparent had always been titled Prince of Dragonstone. By making Stannis the Lord of Dragonstone, Robert affirmed his brother's status as heir (which he was, until Joff's birth a few years later). Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End. Giving them to his brothers instead was another instance of his great, but rather careless, generosity.-GRRM

 

 So Stannis is nuts and Cerseis a bitch I guess I can get behind that.

Why no Joffrey or Tommen? Shouldn't the first son of the first son and second son of the first son come before second sons and third? Though then, why did Stannis think it's his right?

 

[Dolorous22]

No, it was not a slight. Prince of Dragonstone is a great title and was a tradition in Westeros. I suppose what Cersei and Stannis think is: If Robert truly loved Stannis as a brother, he would grant him his wish of taking the seat of his ancestral home. The place he nearly starved to death defending whilst simultaneously keeping the Tyrells out of the war. Both sides have a point but ultimately Robert truly needed Stannis to be the Lord of Dragonstone. He was perfect for the job. It was no task for Renly.  It was the closest thing to a mother-land the Targaryens had left. The Lord or Prince who occupied it had to be stern and strict. 
 

[Fat Mac]

No, it wasn't a slight.

Renly getting SE was more of a slight to Stannis than Stannis getting DS. To be honest Robert should have kept both for himself and his line.

[Bryan Stark]

It was not a slight. It was a generous gift.

 

Stannis was born a second son, his brother made him his Master of Ships and gave him Dragonstone (as well as control over the rich Driftmark and other Crownland vassals). While the Stormlands might control more land it might be that Dragonstone, with its islands and the royal fleet, may have controlled more money and military.

Actually, It is said that the Dragonstone and other island lack a large population. The Velaryon of Driftmark by the time of ASOIAF are a poor impoverished house. They lost most of their wealth and influence during the Dance of Dragons and it does make sense considering that most of their wealth was liquid and non productive. 

Also, Dragonstone is a strategic island and Robert might have given it as a honor/slight to Stannis. Traditionally, Brothers and sons held Dragonstone in the name of King and Robert was continuing a long line of traditions. What Robert failed to do so was to reaffirm Stannis' right over Storm's End. I mean I cant see how Renly would fail to keep the Targaryen Loyalists. He would win them over with charisma as he always does and maybe integrate them more into the Baratheon. But than again, we wouldnt have ASOS, ADWD, and the story we have today cuz the WOT5K would have lasted longer. 

[The Skinner]

Man I'd be pissed too, my drunk, whoremongering brother gets to be fucking King and I get cheated out of the home of my ancestors to live in some (admittedly baller) dragon citadel in the ocean after I ate rats and boot leather to stop from starving while that fat flower Mace Tyrell feasted outside. Dick. 

But likely no, it wasn't intended as a slight by Robert. I'm sure however that there were plenty at court who were willing to spin it that way. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Actually, It is said that the Dragonstone and other island lack a large population. The Velaryon of Driftmark by the time of ASOIAF are a poor impoverished house.

Impoverished! Where is that ever mentioned? Just because they are not as rich as they were during the Dance, when they were said to be on a par with the Hightowers and Lannisters, does not mean that they are poor.

[Bryan Stark]

Impoverished! Where is that ever mentioned? Just because they are not as rich as they were during the Dance, when they were said to be on a par with the Hightowers and Lannisters, does not mean that they are poor.

Not impoverished, but losing most of the wealth during the Dance of the Dragons and loss of Spicetown did not help them out. Not to mention none of the Velaryon ever went back east. So pretty much they are poor. Plus it is said in one of Davos's chapter that the Velaryon brought few ships and men to war with Stannis at the outbreak. A pretty far cry from what they were nearly 200 years before the WOT5K, or that during the Robert Rebellion, we are told that there wasnt any major battle over sea and that during the Targaryen Flight to Dragonstone, the Targaryen fleet was smashed(Mostly Velaryon) and the fact that the Baratheon did not favor them does not help them alot. 

[Tonberry]

No, it was not a slight. Prince of Dragonstone is a great title and was a tradition in Westeros. I suppose what Cersei and Stannis think is: If Robert truly loved Stannis as a brother, he would grant him his wish of taking the seat of his ancestral home. The place he nearly starved to death defending whilst simultaneously keeping the Tyrells out of the war. Both sides have a point but ultimately Robert truly needed Stannis to be the Lord of Dragonstone. He was perfect for the job. It was no task for Renly.  It was the closest thing to a mother-land the Targaryens had left. The Lord or Prince who occupied it had to be stern and strict. 
 

I agree with this entirely.

[Lord Fauntleroy]

I'm pretty sure it was Robert's way of recognising Stannis as his heir.  Stannis just took it as a slight, I doubt Robert intended it that way.

This. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Not impoverished,

Ah!, so you made that up.

 

but losing most of the wealth during the Dance of the Dragons

Most of their wealth? Do you have a quote to back this up?

And do you have a quote to show they definitely didn't recover afterwards? Lannisport was sacked during the Dance and the Lannisters easily recovered. There has been enough time for the Velaryons to recover.

 

While they might not be as rich as they were at their peak (when they were said to be richer than the Lannisters) there is absolutely nothing to suggest that they are poor.

and loss of Spicetown did not help them out.

No one suggested that it did help them out. However, like Tumbleton, it may have been rebuilt since. Or another new town may have sprouted up on Driftmark since.

 

Not to mention none of the Velaryon ever went back east.

Sure they did. They might not have gone as far East as Corlys, but they still would have went East. We know that his heir Alyn Velaryon had been at least as far as Volantis on one of his legendary 6 voyages.

Corlys was impressive going so far East but the Velaryons were rich before he did that and there is no reason to think they could not get rich again without travelling as far East as Corlys did.

 

So pretty much they are poor.

Based on what?

 

Plus it is said in one of Davos's chapter that the Velaryon brought few ships and men to war with Stannis at the outbreak.

Quote please? Stannis was able to raise 5,000k from 5 Houses as well as the Royal Navy which is comparable to both the Redwyne Navy and the Ironborn Navy.

However, as far as naval power goes, the only fleets comparable to that of the Greyjoys are the royal fleet (most of it destroyed on the Blackwater) and the Redwyne fleet, based on the Arbor. Besides the king, the Greyjoys and Redwynes are the traditional sea powers of Westeros.-GRRM

 

Not being extremely wealthy, like they once were, does not mean that they are poor. They may still even be quite rich, just not in the same sphere as the Lannisters or Hightowers.

 

None of the Stormland Houses under Renly are described as insanely Rich either, infact when GRRM talked about that regions he disparagingly mentions that "The stormlands have lots of trees and rocks and rain." So while Renly has more land and more soldiers he has a smaller navy and may generate less money from his vassals than Stannis does from his.

 

 

 

 

[Magnar of Skagos]

I don't see what Stannis is complaining about. My brothers never gave me anything half as cool as Dragonstone.

[WolfgangII]

So in Robert's eyes, would Stannis be able to keep Dragonstone and pass it on to Shireen or does it belongs to the crown adn eventually to his kids?

[Lord Lannister]

Had Robert given Stannis Storm's End instead, he'd have taken that as a sleight as well. The glass was always half empty with him.

[Orphalesion]

I agree with what others have said. Robert gave Stannis Storm's End because that was traditionally the seat of the heir to the Iron Throne, and until Joffrey's birth, Stannis was the heir. Stannis is just a miserable person who is merciless, cold and unfeeling towards others and so logically thinks that everybody else acts the same way.

Interesting that GRRM says Robert giving away the castles was a sign of reckless generosity. I never really had the impression that Robert was generous. Though perhaps the keyword is "reckless". He didn;t see the value in the castles, so it was no big deal for him to give them away?

I always thought it was Jon Arryn's doing to distribute the two other castles to avoid having to much feudal power concentrated in Robert and thus angering the other Great Houses (a mistake Cersei has been guilty of since day one) 

Following this logic it would even have been necessary to make Renly LP of the Stormlands instead of Stannis. Until Joffrey's birth Stannis was needed as heir and was, in that aspect, part of Robert's branch instead of head of a potential cadet-branch like Renly. And after Joffrey's birth...well Robert didn't exactly like the idea of changing anything if it wasn't absolutely necessary and/or amused him.

[purple-eyes]

I can understand stannis.

If renly got nothing, then Stannis will be happy to have DS. 

But Renly got the whole stormland, then Stannis was bitter because he is the elder bother, he thought he is before renly to get the strom land. 

robert is indeed generous, he probably means good, he could have kept both for Joff and tommen. but he gave them to two brothers. 

but the problem is he is unfair. This is why Stannis is unhappy.