TheLightning Lord

Winds update (not a blog)

472 posts in this topic

I'd really like to know how do you picture those two seasons, no sarcasm, because when I try all I can imagine is this:

sleeping-craig-o.gif

Oh, I'm sorry, I meant that what I picture was this:

- Two seasons of Tyrion walking and not meeting Dany

- Two seasons of Brienne walking and not finding Sansa

- Two seasons of Jaime walking and only briefly meeting Brienne at the very end of season six

- Two seasons of Sam not reaching Oldtown

- Two (three!) seasons of Dany being in Meereen

- Two seasons of Jon doing nothing at the Wall

- Two seasons of Stannis not reaching Winterfell

- Two seasons of an Arya training montage

- 3 Bran, Sansa and Davos chapters spread out into two seasons

Etc

How anyone could honestly believe this would make good television is just baffling to me. You just can't work around the simple fact that there's not enough material to adapt. 

I don't agree with all of the changes D & D made, but you made some really good points. There's no way most of Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Sam or Brienne's arcs would have worked on tv. They don't really work very well in the books either, IMO.

 

It's just a shame they couldn't fit the Iron Born into more of the show. I have a really hard time even remembering they exist.

Edited by sifth

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I don't agree with all of the changes D & D made, but you made some really good points. There's no way most of Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Sam or Brienne's arcs would have worked on tv. They don't really work very well in the books either, IMO.

 

It's just a shame they couldn't fit the Iron Born into more of the show. I have a really hard time even remembering they exist.

why don't you throw pacing in there for good measure? ;) 

visually tyrions journey and dialogue would have been good on a show during the boat trip. People like things done well tho and I doubt d&d are capable. 

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why don't you throw pacing in there for good measure? ;) 

visually tyrions journey and dialogue would have been good on a show during the boat trip. People like things done well tho and I doubt d&d are capable. 

The pacing was a mess though. There were dozens of chapters of Tyrion doing nothing and the plot not advancing.

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I 'think' I'll watch season 6 before TWoW publishes mainly for the reason that I don't want to stumble upon a spoiler Im attempting to not see or read. But I'm curious if anyone has a opinion of the cover for TWoW that he posted! It's very intriguing to me!! 

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I remember reading a blog post when ADwD came out, with the writer saying that the books and plots have grown too big for GRRM to ever finish them and that seems to be coming true now. I guess that's the problem with being a gardener and adding in new characters and sub plots. Its going to increasingly complicate the setting and make it harder to finish. if GRRM had stuck to his original main characters and stories he would have finished. The show wisely (And due to time and money limits) decided to stick to the few characters that actually matter to the ending. Look at his blog post

Just consider. Mago, Irri, Rakharo, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, Pyp, Grenn, Ser Barristan Selmy, Queen Selyse, Princess Shireen, Princess Myrcella, Mance Rayder, and King Stannis are all dead in the show, alive in the books. Some of them will die in the books as well, yes... but not all of them, and some may die at different times in different ways. Balon Greyjoy, on the flip side, is dead in the books, alive on the show. His brothers Euron Crow's Eye and Victarion have not yet been introduced (will they appear? I ain't saying). Meanwhile Jhiqui, Aggo, Jhogo, Jeyne Poole, Dalla (and her child) and her sister Val, Princess Arianne Martell, Prince Quentyn Martell, Willas Tyrell, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Lord Wyman Manderly, the Shavepate, the Green Grace, Brown Ben Plumm, the Tattered Prince, Pretty Meris, Bloodbeard, Griff and Young Griff, and many more have never been part of the show, yet remain characters in the books.

Like does anyone really care about what happens to Mago, Irri, Rakharo etc in the books? I don't even remember who the hell Bloodbeard is! I don't care about Jhiqui and Aggo or pretty Meris. I don't think it was necessary to introduce FAegon this late in the books, but maybe that was needed to have some kind of Dance of Dragons when Dany finally gets to Westeros. The books are just frustrating at this point. AFfC was a total waste of paper. I thought ADwD was much better with the important Northern plotting and Jon preparing the wall for an attack from the Others, things that we got on the show and will probably get next season.

Martin needs to start killing off characters and POVs and start streamlining his stories. Fast. And stop worrying about what to do with Irri and Jhiqui.

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I remember reading a blog post when ADwD came out, with the writer saying that the books and plots have grown too big for GRRM to ever finish them and that seems to be coming true now. I guess that's the problem with being a gardener and adding in new characters and sub plots. Its going to increasingly complicate the setting and make it harder to finish. if GRRM had stuck to his original main characters and stories he would have finished. The show wisely (And due to time and money limits) decided to stick to the few characters that actually matter to the ending. Look at his blog post

Like does anyone really care about what happens to Mago, Irri, Rakharo etc in the books? I don't even remember who the hell Bloodbeard is! I don't care about Jhiqui and Aggo or pretty Meris. I don't think it was necessary to introduce FAegon this late in the books, but maybe that was needed to have some kind of Dance of Dragons when Dany finally gets to Westeros. The books are just frustrating at this point. AFfC was a total waste of paper. I thought ADwD was much better with the important Northern plotting and Jon preparing the wall for an attack from the Others, things that we got on the show and will probably get next season.

Martin needs to start killing off characters and POVs and start streamlining his stories. Fast. And stop worrying about what to do with Irri and Jhiqui.

it's unfortunate that this thread has turned into a affc/adwd bash fest. They aren't  perfect but still enjoyable and much better than any other fantasy books out there.

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It's ludicrous to interpret "two months of good writing for Winds to be completed (and then the editing process can begin)" to mean "the story will never be finished".

Edited by Ser Biscuit

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I think Martin has really let the story get away from him and that us the main reason everything is taking so long. Consider that everything involving Quentyn Martell POVs could have been summed up with a guard telling Selmy "a Dornish suitor tried to free the dragons and was burned to death" while he was going to Drinkwater's and Yronwood's cells and we would have lost nothing from the story, nothing involving Aegon was necessary to reveal now as it could have been (abd actually was) summed up in a counsel report about the Golden Company invasion and if his plot is later important it could have been summed up with a single conversation in one of the already established POVs, and same with the Dornish plot - lots and lots and lots of words that could have been summarized in a single POV conversation. But Martin introduced them now and consequently has to resolve their arcs as part of the ongoing story or trash it up by leaving them hanging threads or kill them off in an obviously accelerated timetable. As he doesn't seem the type to trash his story we're stuck with having to resolve far too many unnecessary plot lines simultaneously. He really could have used a trusted editor when writing aFfC and aDwD to point all this out. Just my opinion.

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It's ludicrous to interpret "two months of good writing for Winds to be completed" to mean "the story will never be finished".

If he's struggling to complete TWoW at this late stage (After 5 years), do you really think that he will finish ADoS? From his LJ post he comes off as uninspired and unmotivated to write ASOIAF. I doubt he can finish the story in just two books in the first place considering the no. of plots he's got going on. I am sorry, but I doubt that we will get an ending from the books.

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You know, considering what Disney did with Lucas's baby, maybe it would be such a bad idea to turn it over...

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To everyone 'aghast' at the folks getting frustrated with this delay, most of us have been waiting for an end to this series for well over 10 years now. Hell I first read it 13 years ago while I was in high school....and now I'm still waiting.

So yes. Frustration ensues, and sometimes boils over at the repeated broken promises and excuses.

He isn't our bitch, but I'm beginning to feel like a silly one for hoping to see an end to this story.

There is no way he can finish this in two books in my opinion, and that puts us near 2025 before any resolution is written down.

With such sadness, ( I actually wept reading those familiar words...) I'm putting the books down. I'll have to end this story on the tv screen, which feels like being promised Eye Fillet Steak, and getting a cold maccas cheeseburger instead.

But food is food. If the series ever finishes, I'll pick up the tomes again and revel in the carefully thought out words and descriptions, but I'm just too tired to hold out until then.

This isn't excusing the rudeness and petulance either. It's a simple rule in life - don't be a dick, but I can understand why the lifers sometimes lose their minds over delays.

Anyway, look at me rambling on.

Point being, I'll have to watch the show for the conclusion, and that makes me pretty sad.

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If he's struggling to complete TWoW at this late stage (After 5 years), do you really think that he will finish ADoS? From his LJ post he comes off as uninspired and unmotivated to write ASOIAF. I doubt he can finish the story in just two books in the first place considering the no. of plots he's got going on. I am sorry, but I doubt that we will get an ending from the books.

Hurt and disappointed about his blog post and the pace of his writing I get and understand, but believing that he no longer cares enough about the story to finish it is crossing into despair - it's far beyond disappointment. Maybe it's a case of the wound being fresh and that some people will come back down from this after some time has passed, and if that's the case then I'd understand better.

But I'm just saying, you don't start something and keep doing it for two decades without being invested in finishing it. He could have quit writing asoiaf at any point during that time period, or he could have submitted inferior work asap over the years just to collect a paycheck, or he could have hired a ghost writer to finish it for him and taken credit. Yet he refuses to do any of that, and insists on writing everything himself. I don't see how one can have that type of dedication to something for so long and not want to finish it. He did not sound happy at all in the blog post, and doesn't sound like someone who is content to about putting off something that everybody is looking forward to. The man cares a great deal about his work. He's going to see this through to the end and won't phone it in along the way.

Edited by Ser Biscuit

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Read the blog post last night at 3 in the morning, ironically after finishing a reread of AGOT and my first reaction was being angry that I will have to wait longer for the book in this series. The I just got sad with the realization that the book series I love is going to be completed by a tv show. I mean these books helped me get through the deaths of both my grandparents and I love reading them and it's a huge downer to finally have that confirmation that the show will complete the story. I had clash of kings on my night stand ready to be picked up and this news brought the realization that it's time to put the books aside for now. Too many other books to put my attention toward. It's a bummer, but I also understand that it's something you can't rush. It is what it is and when twow comes out I'll be picking my kindle up at 12am the day of its release to continue the journey. As I said its a downer though. 

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Wow this thread is moving so fast, adding 10 pages in 1 day.
Anyway i think the realistic date might be 2017, he has a lot of projects in between, twoiaf, hedge knights, tv series etc. 

D&D said there will only 8 seasons so we'll see the ending in tv show

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it's unfortunate that this thread has turned into a affc/adwd bash fest. They aren't  perfect but still enjoyable and much better than any other fantasy books out there.

They're great books that are better when re-read as one book with the chapters ordered like the boiled leather site suggests.  They're the act 2 of a 3-act play that deal with the aftermath of the war of the five kings and put the pieces in position for the final act.  

I think when the whole series is done, AFfC and ADwD will be much better appreciated in retrospect.  They're not as action-packed as the 1st act books, but they don't have to be. They're building worlds and getting new players in the game.  The wham-bam action should return in the final act books TWoW and ADoS.  

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IYou know, considering what Disney did with Lucas's baby, maybe it would be such a bad idea to turn it over...

To J.J. Abrams? No, thank you. Imagine all the lens flares radiating from Arianne's nipples or something. 

Note: I haven't actually seen the Force Awakens yet so I don't know how many lens flares he included

They're great books that are better when re-read as one book with the chapters ordered like the boiled leather site suggests.  They're the act 2 of a 3-act play that deal with the aftermath of the war of the five kings and put the pieces in position for the final act.  

I think when the whole series is done, AFfC and ADwD will be much better appreciated in retrospect.  They're not as action-packed as the 1st act books, but they don't have to be. They're building worlds and getting new players in the game.  The wham-bam action should return in the final act books TWoW and ADoS.  

When you need two huge tomes to show the aftermath of the war and put the pieces in position for the final act, you may have structural and pacing issues in your series. 

I feel like Feast and Dance are the equivalent of me hosting a dinner party and spending hours and hours setting the table while the guests wait desperately hungry, and then telling them, "Get the fuck out! Dinner isn't ready! Come back in 5 years!"

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It's ludicrous to interpret "two months of good writing for Winds to be completed (and then the editing process can begin)" to mean "the story will never be finished".

Nobody is actually doing that.  Finishing the book and finishing the story are not the same thing.  

Anyhow, he did  not predict completion in 2 months.

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You know, considering what Disney did with Lucas's baby, maybe it would be such a bad idea to turn it over...

Why would I want to read a mediocre rehash of Book 1?

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To J.J. Abrams? No, thank you. Imagine all the lens flares radiating from Arianne's nipples or something. 

Note: I haven't actually seen the Force Awakens yet so I don't know how many lens flares he included

When you need two huge tomes to show the aftermath of the war and put the pieces in position for the final act, you may have structural and pacing issues in your series. 

I feel like Feast and Dance are the equivalent of me hosting a dinner party and spending hours and hours setting the table while the guests wait desperately hungry, and then telling them, "Get the fuck out! Dinner isn't ready! Come back in 5 years!"

That is one of the best analogies I have seen regarding those books.  Very well done :)

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I'll get a chance to start The Wheel of Time, at least (see, there's a silver lining to this). 

Seriously, though, there's a lot of other books that I've wanted to get into lately while waiting. That series being one of them. 

I'm going to listen to A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms on audiobook and listen to the newest Saxon Tales story as soon as it's released later this month. I'm also kinda pumped to read and watch The Revenant. 

I'll deal with the show I guess. It may have become a train wreck but I would have never heard of ASoIaF without it. 

I keep coming back to this thread to read all the whining, crying, pissing, and moaning. You'd think some of these posts were written by 16 year old girls that were given the wrong color Corvette for her birthday or something. The attitudes on some of these posts are astounding. 

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