Sansa and Arya

[The Godswoods ghost]

Hi ! This is my first post here,so i hope this topic hasn't been covered already.

I was wondering about what the future might hold for Sansa and Arya ( Assuming the survive the series! )

Do you guys think its possible that they will mirror each others arcs in reverse? Arya, who was never interested in princes, castles and children has been living in isolation and loneliness with " A hole where her heart was". The only thing left in her life to drive her is vengeance and revenge. 

Sansa has grown up with dreams and fantasies about her future. After all the horror that has happened to her, these dreams are now shattered. However, her warmth and kindness towards others still remains. 

What if in the future, Arya realises that revenge isn't the only way to move forward, and lets go of it in order to settle down to a simple life filled with love, while Sansa realises that in order to move forward she has to become ruthless and apathetic to get what she wants without having to depend on anyone else ( Littlefinger or a future King etc)

I'm new here so go easy on me guys

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I don't think they are going in reverse. But I do think people often read their relationship entirely wrong. 

 

Sansa still yearns for love and a stable family home. But she recognises that in order to have that she has to learn to secure it. And that she can't just rely on people to do the right thing, be honourable and what not. She has to become a player in order to secure her desires.

Arya wants to escape the horrors she has seen and she wants revenge on those who've hurt her family. I think both want love and family though. And that they will eventually work together to achieve it. They are both learning the skills required to do so after all. 

essentially they both want to be capable of ensuring no one can harm them or their loved ones ever again. 

[chrisdaw]

Arya is lost, directionless, revenge and justice is what she craves in the absence of anything greater. Her arc is about realising that revenge isn't justice and it's not her place, as representative of nothing, to play judge, jury and executioner. That lesson she will learn from Stoneheart, and she will ultimately bring Stoneheart down. She will reunite with Sansa and find direction from her, only to puzzle out direction from Sansa is self serving without the bigger picture and good of the realm in mind. She'll end up turning to Jon and helping Sansa to do the same, for the good of the North and whole realm, she'll take the personal hit and get give up the sword and marry where Jon says for the good of the realm. She's the one to be given away in the new pact of Ice and Fire.

Sansa knows only what she wants what she can't have, Winterfell as it was before the Giant smashed it, when her family were alive and she lived in naivety. She wants to go back to another time. As that's not a possibility she doesn't know what she wants, so what she'll do immediately is what she has always done, that is what she has been taught, what she has learned. What she has been taught over the course of the series is how the game is played. She'll start in the Vale, and be moved on to KL. There she will reunite with Arya. With Arya's help and many a pawn behind the scenes she will bring down kings and queens and eventually position herself as queen and Tyrion king. Through manipulating Tyrion she will effectively rule the realm.

As she begins amassing power the underlying question will begin to surface as to why she is doing this. It will at first seem like vengeance, taking from those who hurt the Starks and righting the wrongs of the WOT5Ks. Only as she acts the master player, the method of the Lannister woman, and she amasses power the reason why will begin to obscure. It will become a question if this is about Northern values, or Queen Sansa. Is She Sansa Stark or Sansa Lannister. It will all come to a head when Jon marches South and she must decide to oppose him with Tyrion or not. She will ultimately choose Stark and sell Tyrion out to Jon, which will be what is best for the realm, only when she does she's not going to stick around.

In her first real act of self determination Sansa will do a runner. She will leave behind the Stark identity she was born into having done her part for the cause, the North and family that taught her to be a proper lady and to find happiness in making a king/lord her husband. And leave behind the Lannister identity of power by manipulation, the player she never asked to be. Disappear, as Jaime said, maybe find herself a blacksmith.

[Mladen]

15 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

It will become a question if this is about Northern values, or Queen Sansa. Is She Sansa Stark or Sansa Lannister.

First, the entire dichotomy is wrong since being a Lannister doesn't equalize her as being the Queen. Second, the thing is that she never thinks of her Lannister, nor does anyone in the series (Stannis being exception given that he wanted to push his agenda) The thing is that Sansa is, was and will never be a Lannister. She simply doesn't have a Lannister identity to lose. Even married, she is Sansa Stark. 

On the other hand, the question assumes that Northerns are ambitonless moral-giants. They are not. Just as Southerners, they can play dirty and do questionable things. And amassing power would be something North would benefit for. Not to mention that it is something they never run from. 

The rest is just a pile of speculations, and there is no point discussing what we don't know. I am of different opinion and TBH, I don't think the things will resolve anywhere close to what you have written. But, we'll see.

 

[chrisdaw]

Heh, you're wrong, this is what I think but don't answer!

Sansa barely has a Lannister identity to lose, because it hasn't yet formed. It forms when she plays the game, avarice and ambition is the Westerwoman way, this identity begins when she succeeds in the game and begins to amass power from it. And she will obviously play the game as her arc has basically been dedicated to exposing her and teaching it to her. The game has so far only made her a victim, it's when she has gained from it, has something to lose by turning to the Northern ways that the question begins forming. But there is foreshadowing and the beginnings. She lost her wolf, and you're just flatly wrong as to her never thinking of herself as a Lannister, she thinks to herself they have made me a Lannister.

The Northerners in the time of the series and Sansa's life are overwhelmingly characterised by honour and duty. In that environment she was raised, that's what she knows of the North. Playing the game of thrones is not the way of the North as she and the reader know it.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Well for Arya anyway:

Jon watched them leave, and Arya watched Jon. His face had grown as still as the pool at the heart of the godswood. Finally he climbed down off the window. "The show is done," he said. He bent to scratch Ghost behind the ears. The white wolf rose and rubbed against him. "You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

[Winter's Cold]

I thought the main purpose of Dareon kill was to show that even after all that has happened, Arya is at her core a Stark. Also I don't think she has lost her compassion. She just reserves it for people who she feels deserves it like Sam. She's not directionless either. She's currently with the faceless men mainly to obtain power. The faceless men are using her while she's using them. She keeps needle in defiance of the kindly man's orders, she kills Dareon against the principles of the faceless men and she also keeps secret of her ability to skinchange animals. When she returns to Westeros it appears she will exact a bloody vengeance against the people in the list and those who have wronged her family or just those who have committed evil in Arya's eyes (murdering innocents and raping). Her faceless man skills combined with Nymeria's wolf army means Arya has the potential to kill a lot of people. 

 

I feel the outcome of Sansa's arc will depend on whether she's complicit in the death of sweetrobin. If she helps Littlefinger kill him, then her arc will definitely not have a good end. She may kill Littlefinger but if she does then she loses his protection and may become a target of his enemies. Since she doesn't have Littlefinger's competence or his allies, his death may well lead to her death.

[Not a kneeler]

Sadly, I think Sansa's arc has an unhappy ending. Right now Sansa believes all her family is dead and, believing that, she chooses the one alliance she can form which is with Littlefinger. When, (and if) she finds that they still live it will be too late. Her choice will already have been made.  And Littlefinger has been tap dancing on the edge of a precipice for quite a while. When things go down, so will he. I don't know if he will die or be forced to flee, but where he goes, Sansa will follow.

As one poster has already said, Arya is using the Faceless men while they believe they are using her. She is a warrior in training and when she returns to Westeros she will be very dangerous indeed. But wars end. Enemies are found and eliminated and warriors go home again. I believe at the core Arya is still capable of leading a normal life. She will be able to chose a

[ravenous reader]

7 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Disappear, as Jaime said, maybe find herself a blacksmith.

I have always found that construction you're referencing to be ambiguous, regarding whether 'the other' Jaime was referring to was Arya and/or Sansa.  On the surface of it, the following passage could merely be taken as Jaime spinning an elaborate falsehood to his listener; however, if one allows the words to speak for themselves (as they so often do in GRRM's prose) other possible interpretations and 'prophecies' present:

Quote

Quote

"Is that why you killed all the Starks?"

"Not all," said Jaime. "Lord Eddard's daughters live. One has just been wed. The other …" Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? "… if the gods are good, she'll forget she was a Stark. She'll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall."

"The gods are good," his hostage said, uncertainly.

 

Jaime knows that it is not Arya, but 'fake Arya,' Jeyne Poole, that has been wed to the Boltons.  The only one of the sisters he can say with confidence is truly wed is Sansa.  Why would he advise that Sansa marry 'some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep,' when he knows full well that Sansa is already married to his brother Tyrion?  Further, Jaime's injunction to 'forget she was a Stark' does not really apply to Sansa.  Not only is Sansa actually 'Sansa Lannister,' technically not a Stark anymore, she has never had a problem with forgetting her identity-- that's the psychological flaw that got her into this mess in the first place! 

Her 'forgetfulness,' that heady idealism constituting a disavowal of her Stark identity, caused her to betray her family in favor of the Lannisters, and led to the death of her wolf, which is emblematic of losing her identity, since replaced instead with a flock of bird metaphors ('caged bird,' 'little dove,' 'mockingbird,' 'arryn,' 'sweetrobyn,' etc.) with which Sansa has become associated.  So, no, Sansa does not need to 'forget' that she is a Stark; her task is to remember! 

However, the person we, the readers, know is truly struggling with 'forget[ting] she was a Stark' is Arya.  Arya struggles to 'become no-one,' struggles to let go-- of love, of vengeance, of memory, of the names on her list...  Most of all, she struggles to dispose of 'needle,' which symbolizes not only Jon, Winterell, and her family, but her warrior persona.  The text is cautioning that should she not soften her warrior persona with some of the mother's mercy, it does not bode well for Arya.  A quintessential flaw in all the Starks is a certain mental rigidity, doggedness if you will, which, if not tempered by a greater flexibility, leads to their downfall:

Quote

Jon watched them leave, and Arya watched Jon. His face had grown as still as the pool at the heart of the godswood. Finally he climbed down off the window. "The show is done," he said. He bent to scratch Ghost behind the ears. The white wolf rose and rubbed against him. "You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

'The longer you hide, the sterner the penance'...The latter is usually interpreted as meaning, the longer Arya hides out in Braavos, delaying her return to Westeros, putting off exacting the 'proper' retribution for her family, the worse it'll be for her.  Another interpretation might be that the longer Arya plays at being a warrior, refusing to acknowledge 'the show is done' (they're watching children play at being fighters in the Winterfell courtyard, during this conversation), essentially avoiding her domestic responsibilities and a return to normalcy (represented by 'the room,' and Septa Mordane's efforts to turn her into a lady), the more she invites a harsh fate upon herself. 

'You'll be sewing all through winter'...i.e. the fighting will never end...vengeance without resolution, hate without forgiveness...Without softening her stance, which would entail putting away her sword, and putting away her childhood (perhaps by marrying, as her wolf's namesake the warrior 'Nymeria' did) she will become locked in and by herself, rigid, frozen, brittle, lifeless.  Jon is warning Arya that if she persists in being obdurate and giving in to the lure of the' wolfsblood,' forsaking all temperance, she may end up tragically out of step with the rest of Westeros, for whom the 'spring thaw' may indeed come at last, after all the bloodshed is done.  'Spring thaw' perhaps signifies post-war rapprochement, reparation, diplomacy, peace treaties (which may involve marriage of former enemies) -- but not for Arya.  This would imply that while others were engaged in making peace and facing towards the future, Arya might have become stuck in the past, too stuck in her ways to emerge, determined to continue waging war.

[Joan Jett]

30 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I have always found that construction you're referencing to be ambiguous, regarding whether 'the other' Jaime was referring to was Arya and/or Sansa.  On the surface of it, the following passage could merely be taken as Jaime spinning an elaborate falsehood to his listener; however, if one allows the words to speak for themselves (as they so often do in GRRM's prose) other possible interpretations and 'prophecies' present:

Jaime knows that it is not Arya, but 'fake Arya,' Jeyne Poole, that has been wed to the Boltons.  The only one of the sisters he can say with confidence is truly wed is Sansa.  Why would he advise that Sansa marry 'some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep,' when he knows full well that Sansa is already married to his brother Tyrion?  Further, Jaime's injunction to 'forget she was a Stark' does not really apply to Sansa.  Not only is Sansa actually 'Sansa Lannister,' technically not a Stark anymore, she has never had a problem with forgetting her identity-- that's the psychological flaw that got her into this mess in the first place! 

Her 'forgetfulness,' that heady idealism constituting a disavowal of her Stark identity, caused her to betray her family in favor of the Lannisters, and led to the death of her wolf, which is emblematic of losing her identity, since replaced instead with a flock of bird metaphors ('caged bird,' 'little dove,' 'mockingbird,' 'arryn,' 'sweetrobyn,' etc.) with which Sansa has become associated.  So, no, Sansa does not need to 'forget' that she is a Stark; her task is to remember! 

However, the person we, the readers, know is truly struggling with 'forget[ting] she was a Stark' is Arya.  Arya struggles to 'become no-one,' struggles to let go-- of love, of vengeance, of memory, of the names on her list...  Most of all, she struggles to dispose of 'needle,' which symbolizes not only Jon, Winterell, and her family, but her warrior persona.  The text is cautioning that should she not soften her warrior persona with some of the mother's mercy, it does not bode well for Arya.  A quintessential flaw in all the Starks is a certain mental rigidity, doggedness if you will, which, if not tempered by a greater flexibility, leads to their downfall:

I have no idea why you would say this. Does Alayne Stone ring a bell? Both Sansa and Arya are pretending to be other identities. Neither of them have been able to completely forgot themselves. So the quote could apply to both. Not that the quote matters, though. It says "blacksmith" or "fat-faced inkeep". If it was just one of those two, then it would be foreshadowing. To me it's just a reference to Hotpie and Gendry. 

[Scorpion92]

I think Arya and Sansa's storylines will converge by the end of the books, and they will end up in a place where it all started for them: King's Landing. Sansa is destined to become Cersei's "younger, more beautiful" queen. And Cersei's "valongar" prophecy refers to Jaime, in my opinion, whose own vows of protecting Stark girls will come in conflict with his twin. And Bran foresaw some kind of confrontation between Sandor and Jaime against UnGregor protecting Stark sisters. I think all these story themes are cooking up nicely for the last book.

In my opinion, it will all culminate with Red Keep and Iron Throne besieged by King Jon Stark, who will bring "the Hour of the Wolf" to the capital second time in history, and Cersei will keep Sansa hostage as leverage for Jon not to sack the castle. And she will hold Sansa responsible for Joffrey's death, but Sansa is not the meek weak girl last time she was in King's Landing. She will stand up to Cersei and demand Trialy by Seven. Arya, having previously infiltrated the capital and slain Varys, will witness UnGregor and decide that in order to save her sister she needs a small team to assist her.

I think the result and participants of this Trial by Seven are heavily foreshadowed in two other Trials of Seven we know from the history: one Maegor's Trial by Seven, where thirteen other warriors lay dead and Maegor the sole survivor, I think it foreshadows that only one participant of this trial will survive; and another is Dunk's Trial by Seven. I have analyzed the participants of Ashford's Trial, and came to this conclusion.

Cersei's champions will include UnGregor, Ilyn Payne (Steffon Fossoway parallel, and the man who both scared the crap out of Sansa in the first book when she met him as well as part of Arya's list), Boros Blount and Meryn Trant (both are described as Cersei's creatures in the very first book we meet them, and there are parallels on how they were appointed to Kingsguard even though there were far superior choices to them), and three Kettleblack brothers (three Targaryen brothers and three Kingsguards were part of Dunk's Trial - I think this time around three Kingsguard brothers will partake on Cersei's behalf; plus Kettleblack sigil has parallel to Targaryen sigil in color scheme - black and red).

Sansa's champions will include Sandor and Jaime (there are many reasons, for one Baelor fighting his brother Maekar, and Lyonel Baratheon, Laughing Knight, having some similarities to Jaime, but the most important evidence is Bran's vision of Jaime and Sandor protecting Stark sisters from UnGregor in AGOT), Brienne and Podrick (clear Dunk and "good" Fossoway parallels, and I think Podrick will be knighted by Jaime prior this trial), Bronn (I think he is parallel to Robyn Rhysling, who was brought to the Trial by Egg, I think in similar fashion, Tyrion will bring Bronn to Arya's team who will prove to Tyrion that he is a friend after all having agreed to save his wife Sansa; and there ), Loras Tyrell (parallel to Humfrey Hardying in my opinion), and Arya (there is mention that two Humfreys were brothers-in-law, I think since Jaime is Arya's brother-in-law as well thanks to Sansa and Tyrion marriage and Arya's improving sword skills in the story, she will participate in this trial; the fact that Cersei, Gregor, Meryn Trant and Ilyn Payne are all there to cross of her list will give her perfect opportunity to give them the "gift").

I give one very bold prediction: Jaime will take on three Kettleblack brothers, Meryn Trant and Boros Blount all by himself, which was foreshadowed in his conversation with his brothers-in-arms about Arthur Dayne and how he could take on FIVE of them with ONE HAND, while taking a piss with another. I think Jaime's sword skills with his left hand will be much improved and sufficient to take on these weaklings. Arya and Podrick will take on Ilyn Payne, and he will be the only person which Arya will cross off her list herself, but at heavy cost of losing Podrick.

Which in turn will free up Bronn, Loras, Brienne and Sandor to fight unstoppable UnGregor, and if you look at it, all these four characters have a reason to cross swords with Mountain (Loras already did in Hand's tourney; Sandor and Gregor - Cleganebowl, so no comments; Bronn was supposed to fight Mountain on Tyrion's behalf; and Brienne is in possession of Oathkeeper which I believe will be the ultimate weapon to destroy the monster by setting him on fire). Eventually, Jaime will join the last standing Sandor (the others will be killed) to protect Stark girls from the monster as seen by Bran in AGOT.

Anyways, everyone except Arya and Jaime dies in the triel, then Jaime confronts and tries to stop Cersei from carrying out wildfire plot, and they will kill each other in the end (there are too much textual evidence for that), wildfire plot will go through, and King's Landing will burn. Arya as the last survivor of the Trial will escape with Sansa and reunite with Jon outside the city, and I think they will escape on Stranger - Sandor's horse. There is just too much story emphasis on this horse, it has a specific role, and I think the horse will save Stark girls from the burning city.

A fanfic you might call it, but I have done my research on Trials by Seven and I am very sure that Trial by Seven will occur again between Cersei and Sansa, and the participants of both teams.

[chrisdaw]

2 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Her 'forgetfulness,' that heady idealism constituting a disavowal of her Stark identity, caused her to betray her family in favor of the Lannisters, and led to the death of her wolf, which is emblematic of losing her identity, since replaced instead with a flock of bird metaphors ('caged bird,' 'little dove,' 'mockingbird,' 'arryn,' 'sweetrobyn,' etc.) with which Sansa has become associated.  So, no, Sansa does not need to 'forget' that she is a Stark; her task is to remember! 

'You'll be sewing all through winter'...i.e. the fighting will never end...vengeance without resolution, hate without forgiveness...Without softening her stance, which would entail putting away her sword, and putting away her childhood (perhaps by marrying, as her wolf's namesake the warrior 'Nymeria' did) she will become locked in and by herself, rigid, frozen, brittle, lifeless.  Jon is warning Arya that if she persists in being obdurate and giving in to the lure of the' wolfsblood,' forsaking all temperance, she may end up tragically out of step with the rest of Westeros, for whom the 'spring thaw' may indeed come at last, after all the bloodshed is done.  'Spring thaw' perhaps signifies post-war rapprochement, reparation, diplomacy, peace treaties (which may involve marriage of former enemies) -- but not for Arya.  This would imply that while others were engaged in making peace and facing towards the future, Arya might have become stuck in the past, too stuck in her ways to emerge, determined to continue waging war.

I do somewhat agree remembering is Sansa's task. In addition to the wolf episode there is her betraying her father to Cersei, making no mention of Arya in her letter and lines such as she hadn't thought about Jon for a while, contrast to Arya always remembering her family, Sansa included. And I think she will 'remember' Stark over Lannister in epic fashion swaying the course of war.

Two reasons (discounting foreshadowing) I say she will then run, that is disappear. The North for her was a time, state of mind, naivety, she can't go back to the way she was, that Sansa would have ended with the head of her children dashed against a wall.

You identified the parrot line, which I think are easily the most insightful comments in the text regarding Sansa, Sandor's words cut straight to Sansa's soul. She too easily takes the identity thrust upon her. Quickly turning into the princess, sadly allowing she had been made a Lannister and then Alayne. She takes the identity given her, becomes what they want, tries to become what they teach her. And the North was no different, she was to play the Lady role, and so she did. She has never formed an identity of her own, it's most apparent in contrast with Arya.

And when she plays the game of thrones, it's somewhat of an awakening, but very limited, she's still far from self identifying. She doesn't want to play the game, it's too dangerous, she was never asked. But we know she will, and when she does she's still doing little more than being the parrot. The game is what she has been taught, what has been thrust upon her, she will just be going through her standard mode of operation, watch, listen, learn and then recite.

She has to break from it, all of it including the Northern expectations of what she is to be, she must do this to establish a Sansa identity, to break the parrot cycle.

Arya is going to emerge, you have Black Aly agreeing (though it seems she didn't really want to) to marriage for the sake of the realm in the first hour of the wolf and a Stark princess promised to the crown in the first pact of Ice and Fire. The foreshadowing pushes the same way in line with her arc, put down the sword, forget vengeance, the Starks, the North and the realm does not need your sword no more, it needs you to put back on the face of Arya Stark.

33 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said:

A fanfic you might call it, but I have done my research on Trials by Seven and I am very sure that Trial by Seven will occur again between Cersei and Sansa, and the participants of both teams.

I'm happy you put forth the argument of the inevitable trial but it is somewhat grating seeing post about having researched it and what not when the great majority of what you write I have being posting since about 2013 and pulled into a single topic last year.

http://forum.westeros.org/index.php/topic/128966-cleganebowl-why-and-how/

[Scorpion92]

17 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

I'm happy you put forth the argument of the inevitable trial but it is somewhat grating seeing post about having researched it and what not when the great majority of what you write I have being posting since about 2013 and pulled into a single topic last year.

http://forum.westeros.org/index.php/topic/128966-cleganebowl-why-and-how/

Wow! Just wow! My main ideas about Trial by Seven came after reading Mithras' thread long time ago, but I never realized someone put forth something identical and so close to my own ideas. Your research even seems to have more textual backing.

I will visit your thread and add my 2 cents later. Cheers and respect!

[chrisdaw]

That's because people pulled what fit their theories from that post or more the scattered preceding ones with much the same content and it got bounced around here and the greater web.

[ravenous reader]

10 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

You identified the parrot line, which I think are easily the most insightful comments in the text regarding Sansa, Sandor's words cut straight to Sansa's soul. She too easily takes the identity thrust upon her. Quickly turning into the princess, sadly allowing she had been made a Lannister and then Alayne. She takes the identity given her, becomes what they want, tries to become what they teach her. And the North was no different, she was to play the Lady role, and so she did. She has never formed an identity of her own, it's most apparent in contrast with Arya.

 

2 hours ago, Joan Jett said:

I have no idea why you would say this. Does Alayne Stone ring a bell? Both Sansa and Arya are pretending to be other identities

While both sisters have lost their way, having been separated from the support of their families, and having been forced to assume other identities, for the sake of survival, I would argue that Sansa rather than Arya has also voluntarily given up her own identity, even when her survival was not threatened. Moreover, by choosing to hide behind a lie on several occasions, the choice to disavow her family directly endangered it, rather than saving it.  For example, consider the 'honorable lie' told by Arya to and about Nymeria versus Sansa's dishonorable lies.  When Arya rejected Nymeria, something which was very painful and difficult for her to do, she did this so that Nymeria would not get killed.  When Sansa, however, covered up the truth of what she'd witnessed on the Trident, she did this for selfish reasons, and thereby failed to safeguard her family as well as the victims.

Regarding 'Alayne Stone,' it's significant that this was an identity chosen for her by Littlefinger, whom it likely benefited more than her.  To chrisdaw's point, 'she too easily takes the identities thrust upon her,' compared to Arya who is the master of each of the disguises she consciously assumes.  What's more, Sansa fails to see how she is being manipulated; no sooner had the world rid her of one psychopath, she fell under the sway of another... Not coincidentally, the dilemma Sansa was faced with at the Eyrie, after LF had murdered her aunt, mirrors her dilemma at the Trident.  In both cases, Sansa made the ill-advised, though voluntary choice, to go along with the criminal/s versions of events instead of defending the integrity of the innocent parties, after she had witnessed a crime.  Interestingly, yet again Sansa betrays her blood, this time her Tully family!  Just as she failed to do justice by Arya, Nymeria, and Mycah, she failed to do justice by Lysa (and Marillion for that matter, although no-one seems to care about those singers..!).  Once again, she let a murderer off the hook, thereby making herself complicit in the crime.

The movement of psychic growth for the two sisters goes in opposite directions, for the reason that they have diametrically opposed personalities:

Sansa: beta-wolf, introverted, avoidant, timid, amenable, accommodating, compliant, passive, insecure, bows to convention/protocol/decorum/external authority; therefore her psychic task is to consolidate her original identity, and shake off the masks of others, and finally exit this mummer's farce, once and for all, which constitutes a 'remembering' of sorts...

Arya: alpha-wolf, extroverted, impulsive, bold, defiant, uncompromising, wilful, aggressive, self-assured, flouts convention/protocol/decorum/external authority; therefore her psychic task is to let go of some of her willfulness, or 'wolfsblood,' and learn to 'meet people halfway,' a 'softening of her identity, which constitutes a kind of 'forgiving and forgetting'...

[Nevets]

7 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

 

While both sisters have lost their way, having been separated from the support of their families, and having been forced to assume other identities, for the sake of survival, I would argue that Sansa rather than Arya has also voluntarily given up her own identity, even when her survival was not threatened. Moreover, by choosing to hide behind a lie on several occasions, the choice to disavow her family directly endangered it, rather than saving it.  For example, consider the 'honorable lie' told by Arya to and about Nymeria versus Sansa's dishonorable lies.  When Arya rejected Nymeria, something which was very painful and difficult for her to do, she did this so that Nymeria would not get killed.  When Sansa, however, covered up the truth of what she'd witnessed on the Trident, she did this for selfish reasons, and thereby failed to safeguard her family as well as the victims.

Regarding 'Alayne Stone,' it's significant that this was an identity chosen for her by Littlefinger, whom it likely benefited more than her.  To chrisdaw's point, 'she too easily takes the identities thrust upon her,' compared to Arya who is the master of each of the disguises she consciously assumes.  What's more, Sansa fails to see how she is being manipulated; no sooner had the world rid her of one psychopath, she fell under the sway of another... Not coincidentally, the dilemma Sansa was faced with at the Eyrie, after LF had murdered her aunt, mirrors her dilemma at the Trident.  In both cases, Sansa made the ill-advised, though voluntary choice, to go along with the criminal/s versions of events instead of defending the integrity of the innocent parties, after she had witnessed a crime.  Interestingly, yet again Sansa betrays her blood, this time her Tully family!  Just as she failed to do justice by Arya, Nymeria, and Mycah, she failed to do justice by Lysa (and Marillion for that matter, although no-one seems to care about those singers..!).  Once again, she let a murderer off the hook, thereby making herself complicit in the crime.

The movement of psychic growth for the two sisters goes in opposite directions, for the reason that they have diametrically opposed personalities:

Sansa: beta-wolf, introverted, avoidant, timid, amenable, accommodating, compliant, passive, insecure, bows to convention/protocol/decorum/external authority; therefore her psychic task is to consolidate her original identity, and shake off the masks of others, and finally exit this mummer's farce, once and for all, which constitutes a 'remembering' of sorts...

Arya: alpha-wolf, extroverted, impulsive, bold, defiant, uncompromising, wilful, aggressive, self-assured, flouts convention/protocol/decorum/external authority; therefore her psychic task is to let go of some of her willfulness, or 'wolfsblood,' and learn to 'meet people halfway,' a 'softening of her identity, which constitutes a kind of 'forgiving and forgetting'...

I like your comment about the psychic growth of the sisters.  I think that Sansa's story is that she will have to learn how to take control, to be more assertive, and to make herself a player instead of a piece to be moved about at the whims of others.  Her story up to now is that of allowing others to control her life.  I  think that her assertiveness will begin with taking down Littlefinger once she discovers what he has done to those she cares about.  As for Marillion, I don't have much sympathy for him or for Lysa.  Lysa was trying to kill her, and Marillion was covering up her cries.  Plus, he had tried to rape her, and would likely have tried again.

I agree with your assessment of Arya.  She has to learn that she doesn't need to be in control of everything, and that she needs to let go of her anger and desire for vengeance, before she loses herself to it.  I see no chance that she will stay with the FM or will become an assassin.  With the lack of the 5 year gap, if George were going to make her an assassin, she would already be on the fast track, instead of the desultory training she is currently getting.  I think she lands in Westeros, probably to join Nymeria, before long.

Given that both girls' stories are essentially standard "coming of age" stories, I think they will both succeed, at least as far as their psyches go.  After that, who knows, but I think they will both play a part in the fight against the Others, and will be major players by the end.

[lidsa]

There's a lot of fanfiction in this thread, it seems. I don't think Sansa will survive to the end, mainly because GRRM said so in his original outline. If she hasn't started to become a player by now, and she hasn't, then she won't magically turn into one anytime soon.  

That being said, I don't think it's fair that so many people blame Sansa for complying with Littlefinger's lies. If I were in her situation (that is basically being held captive by LF, and, as far as she knows, no living immediate family left), you bet your ass I would be going along with what LF tells me. That's just as much survival as Arya's adventures, it's just a different kind of survival.

[Isobel Harper]

There is a "beauty and the beast" theme in various character arcs, namely in Sansa's concerning her relationship with The Hound and Sweetrobin, in Daenerys' (or rather its inverse) concerning Drogo and Jorah's influence on her, and Jaime and Brienne in regards to Brienne's influence on Jaime's redemption arch.

Their father describes Sansa and Arya in AGoT as such:

You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts.  (AGoT, Arya II)

Brienne swore to protect Sansa and Arya, and interestingly enough, the Tarth sigil is the sun and the moon, quartered.  Both Sansa and Arya are likely to go down a darker path under their current tutors.  Without going into too much speculation, I will say that I see these three characters arcs evolving into another "Beauty and the Beast(s)" story, Brienne playing "The Beauty," playing a huge role in the girls' own redemption arc, rescuing them, but from themselves in a way.

[ravenous reader]

8 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

Their father describes Sansa and Arya in AGoT as such:

You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts.  (AGoT, Arya II)

Brienne swore to protect Sansa and Arya, and interestingly enough, the Tarth sigil is the sun and the moon, quartered.  Both Sansa and Arya are likely to go down a darker path under their current tutors.  Without going into too much speculation, I will say that I see these three characters arcs evolving into another "Beauty and the Beast(s)" story, Brienne playing "The Beauty," playing a huge role in the girls' own redemption arc, rescuing them, but from themselves in a way.

I like this; we always need rescuing from ourselves most of all!  In addition to Brienne, the 'Hound'- vs-'Sandor' always struck me as a main Beast-vs.-Beauty character.  As a 'dog,' he has a special kinship with the wolves, and guards and guides each of the girls in turn.  From him, Sansa needs to learn how to look reality square in the face without flinching, and to see the deeper truth which lies behind the mask; similarly, Arya needs to learn her own lesson of forgiveness. Sandor's essential lesson is to teach each girl 'where the heart is'...  When Arya is finally ready, consciously, to take 'the Hound' off her list, after having developed some compassion for Sandor, in the face of recognizing her own 'monstrous' qualities, she will be on the right track. 

GRRM seems to like challenging his characters' prejudices.  For example, after having been quick to judge Jaime for oathbreaking, it's likely that Brienne will be placed in a similar position to him of having to choose between conflicting oaths, shaking her rosy-hued ideals of 'true knighthood' to the core.  Likewise, I can imagine Arya being put in a similar situation to Sandor, if for example she were to be ordered to kill an innocent child in the name of some higher principle (as a 'soldier' for the faceless men, for example), analogous to Sandor being ordered to kill Mycah.

[Bran the Shipper]

It's hard for me to say exactly how I'd predict Sansa and Arya's arcs to go when there are so many variables that could change it.  All I can comment on is how their past behavior can influence future behavior, so if they have a personality change then my predictions would be wrong (they might be wrong anyway just because I might misinterpret their characters). 

Something I've noticed with both girls is that they wear masks a lot.  Arya with her changing faces/roles and Sansa with her courtesy armor.  I think moving forward they will both sink further into the personas they have created, which will lead to negative repercussions.  This could potentially be fatal for either of them, especially since they are right now "lone wolves", and we all know what happens to lone wolves when winter comes. 

One thing I'm worried about with Arya is that I'm concerned that GRRM doesn't even know what to do with her.  It just seems like her arc was so dependent on her being older by the end that he might have written himself into a corner with this one.  I hope I'm wrong on this but to me her Braavos arc is stagnating which seems to imply a lack of direction.  She is not going to make a believable spy/assassin with only a year of training (and that might be generous), so if that is the only thing happening she should leave and head to where she could make more of an impact.