Why has the show made Brienne so arrogant?

[TheKnightOfJests]

As a book reader and show watcher, I used to always love Brienne, and still do.... in the books.

Brienne in the show seems to have taken a way different character path, not just with what she does in ratio of Show vs Book, but in her overall attitude. In the books she was humble, and she acted more true as a knight than some men did. She never seemed eager to shed blood, even when it came to Stannis. She still hated Stannis I'm sure, but her hatred in the show seems to have become an obsession. In the books it seemed like she was finally learning to forget about  it. 

And even if the opportunity did arise for her to kill Stannis in the books, I doubt she would also feel the need to swagger up to Davos and Mel to say "lol I totally killed your friend and king, deal with it" and then proceed to swagger off with her sword in her hands.

That's just my opinion. She seems to... prideful I guess. What do you guys think?

[Northernmonkey]

Agreed, that whole scene seemed a bit strange to me. Book Brienne seems like a more nuanced character, and if she appears arrogant it's purely in a defensive way. 

[Mat92]

To me it seemed to be more directed at Mel specifically. I took it as her wanting to let them know that she knows what she is capable of, considering she's just delivered Sansa - the only thing she has to live for at the moment - to the place where they just happen to be. More of a warning than her being arrogant. But I can see how a lot of people would take it that way. 

[TheLastLibrarian]

6 minutes ago, Mat92 said:

To me it seemed to be more directed at Mel specifically. I took it as her wanting to let them know that she knows what she is capable of, considering she's just delivered Sansa - the only thing she has to live for at the moment - to the place where they just happen to be. More of a warning than her being arrogant. But I can see how a lot of people would take it that way. 

^This

it's not arrogance, she told them the truth and told Melisandre that her vengeance is still on

[Tianzi]

Too bad she interrupted Davos his Shireen talk.

I agree she lately gives the vibe of this arrognat kung-fu guy who thinks he can take down just anyone and you just wait for some underdog to show him his place.

[RoamingRonin]

Her anger is justified. However, the scene was strange. Davos was confronting Mel and then Brienne joins in to confront them both? I like that there's tension between all three of them for various reasons but that was an odd way of showing that to the audience.

[LifeRuiner]

51 minutes ago, Mat92 said:

To me it seemed to be more directed at Mel specifically. I took it as her wanting to let them know that she knows what she is capable of, considering she's just delivered Sansa - the only thing she has to live for at the moment - to the place where they just happen to be. More of a warning than her being arrogant. But I can see how a lot of people would take it that way. 

I see it the same way. Also, the last time Brienne met Davos and Melisandre, they were on the opposite sides of a conflict. It would have lacked character continuity not to address the issue of Renly's death by Mel's magic and by Davos's lord. And so Brienne did. 

For once, I actually prefer Brienne's characterization and her story on the show, by a lot. 

[Aedam Targaryen]

I think she seems more arrogant in the show because we don't hear her inner dialog. She was always a little unsure of herself in the books, but I think she was always careful to give the impression that she was completely confidant. But I do agree that her announcement about killing Stannis seemed unusual. 

[Good Guy Garlan]

47 minutes ago, RoamingRonin said:

Her anger is justified. However, the scene was strange. Davos was confronting Mel and then Brienne joins in to confront them both? I like that there's tension between all three of them for various reasons but that was an odd way of showing that to the audience.

Yeah, that scene was just odd. 

Not gonna lie, I would've cheered if Davos had lost his shit and stabbed her gloating ass. 

[Ser Gareth]

I am not a fan of show Brienne.  She is very angry and bitter.

But I don't think book Brienne would translate very well to the show either.  She's way too goodie two shoes.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Because they don't seem to know how to characterize "Strong Female" without relying on "raging bitch."

Unfortunate, but D&D are hardly the only writers/producers/directors/etc. with this problem.

Brienne's good heart is out there in the ether, hanging out with Asha's snark (and her real name), ne'er to be seen showside.

 

 

 

[Victarian Revolution]

10 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I am not a fan of show Brienne.  She is very angry and bitter.

But I don't think book Brienne would translate very well to the show either.  She's way too goodie two shoes.

What are you talking about? of course having a skulking lonesome brute traipse around the Riverlands repeatedly asking... "I'm looking for a flame haired Maiden blah blah blah" for 10 episodes would be a great bit of TV.

joking aside, i didn't like her execution of Stannis.  Brienne's whole deal is that she is honorable.  what is honorable about executing a defenseless, injured man exactly?

I think book Brienne would have marched him off for some sort of trial.  but that would be mega terrible boring on TV.

[Dizzy Walker]

You have to give her credit for going up to Stannis's strongest supporters and tell them that she killed them. Especially seeing from first hand what dark magic can do. Maybe she wanted to gloat when she told Mel she killed Stannis. Or maybe she wanted to determine if they would be a future threat by how they reacted to that information.  Or maybe that scene was a threat to Mel. She was talking fairly polite to Davos but gave the evil eye to Mel..

I am trying to figure out that look she gave at the table with Tormund looking at her...is it yuck!  or is it  He is looking at me and men don't look at me like that kind of surprise? Given it would be the first time someone looked at her like that......... She might be volunteering to go to the Riverlands just to get away from him! Loved it!

[dbunting]

1 minute ago, Victarian Revolution said:

joking aside, i didn't like her execution of Stannis.  Brienne's whole deal is that she is honorable.  what is honorable about executing a defenseless, injured man exactly?

I think book Brienne would have marched him off for some sort of trial.  but that would be mega terrible boring on TV.

Why would that happen? It's war, people die, hell he was dying anyway. She was a sworn member of Renlys kings guard and she swore a vow to kill Stannis, during a war, which in his and her minds is still going on.

The scene was a little strange especially since she interrupted the Shireen talk but it was totally fitting with her character to say, I killed him and this is why, deal with it and red woman, I know what you have done and I haven't forgotten.

Would people like her better if she wandered the wilderness the whole time thinking of Jaime?

 

2 minutes ago, Dizzy Walker said:

I am trying to figure out that look she gave at the table with Tormund looking at her...is it yuck!  or is it  He is looking at me and men don't look at me like that kind of surprise? Given it would be the first time someone looked at her like that......... She might be volunteering to go to the Riverlands just to get away from him! Loved it!

I think she was recognizing that he likes her and she isn't used to that. She is used to being leered at and being the object men want to bed for a conquest, but not truly being "wanted". Tormund clearly wants some of her and not as a joke.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Just now, Victarian Revolution said:

joking aside, i didn't like her execution of Stannis.  Brienne's whole deal is that she is honorable.  what is honorable about executing a defenseless, injured man exactly?

He was a kinslayer and had it coming.

Stannis was beaten and knew it and resigned to it/wanted it.

Plus, being pledged to Catelyn and/or Sansa I suppose ultimately puts her on the side of what folks on Bear Island like to call The King In The North Whose Name Is Stark.  Stannis is a rival.  Gotta "cut down" the competition.

Also said killed kin was her unrequited boyfriend crush, so, you know, getting a little heated is understandable.

You gotta stretch for it, but there's some wiggle room.

[dooog]

Why did she go up talking to Mel and Davos with her sword in hand, that's what I wanna know.

 

Anyway yes OP. Show Brienne and book Brienne's character are rooted in the fact that she's more noble and knightly than 99% of the knights in Westeros. The Brienne we've had for the last few seasons is anything but - a bitter angry she-Huk who solves everything with a sword to the face. But that's the only way a female character can be strong in this show, apparently.

[Balerion the one eared cat]

1 hour ago, RoamingRonin said:

Her anger is justified. However, the scene was strange. Davos was confronting Mel and then Brienne joins in to confront them both? I like that there's tension between all three of them for various reasons but that was an odd way of showing that to the audience.

I agree - probably just a way of shoe-horning her part in somehow so they use every character. Subtlety is something that's been completely lost this last season.

 

In answer to original post - because the showrunners think they're showing female empowerment, except to them that means portraying every woman as am arrogant brute who can stand up to the big scary men and can wave a sword about. And also by making her motivated by love, since apparently that's enough reason to execute a king.

[Good Guy Garlan]

4 minutes ago, dooog said:

Why did she go up talking to Mel and Davos with her sword in hand, that's what I wanna know.

Don't know about you, but if I'm going up to Stannis' most devoted supporters - one of whom is a witch proficient in dark magic - and tell them that I personally murdered their king, I sure as hell would like to do it with a sword in hand. 

[Nami]

34 minutes ago, Salad Days Saan said:

Because they don't seem to know how to characterize "Strong Female" without relying on "raging bitch."

Unfortunate, but D&D are hardly the only writers/producers/directors/etc. with this problem.

Brienne's good heart is out there in the ether, hanging out with Asha's snark (and her real name), ne'er to be seen showside.

 

 

 

This.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

9 minutes ago, dooog said:

Why did she go up talking to Mel and Davos with her sword in hand, that's what I wanna know.

 

She's a woman and the Night's Watch is full of rapists and thieves.  And they've assassinated their last two COs.

If I were walking around Castle Black I'd come Strapped 24/7 too.