What's the Series' Best Romantic Moment?

[Macgregor of the North]

On 27/11/2016 at 11:39 PM, Sydes Farquhar said:

Hey. First time posting but I always thought that Gendrys line about Arya looking like a nice oak tree was sweet. In addition while potentially traumatic to Arya I recollect a scene in which Robert drunkenly mistakes her for lyanna and apologizes for all his sleeping around which I think is a testament for his feelings for her

I do believe this is the very nice 'oak tree' scene below, but I have no recollection of the Robert Arya scene. 

The Gendry/Arya scene:

A Storm of Swords - Arya IV 

"I look like an oak tree, with all these stupid acorns."

"Nice, though. A nice oak tree." He stepped closer, and sniffed at her. "You even smell nice for a change." 

"You don't. You stink." Arya shoved him back against the anvil and made to run, but Gendry caught her arm. She stuck a foot between his legs and tripped him, but he yanked her down with him, and they rolled across the floor of the smithy. He was very strong, but she was quicker. Every time he tried to hold her still she wriggled free and punched him. Gendry only laughed at the blows, which made her mad. He finally caught both her wrists in one hand and started to tickle her with the other, so Arya slammed her knee between his legs, and wrenched free. Both of them were covered in dirt, and one sleeve was torn on her stupid acorn dress. "I bet I don't look so nice now," she shouted.

[Tianzi]

"You want her? Go get her."

So he did.

---

"Only Cat."

---

"The things I do for love".

/

Yes, i know two of those are disturbing. No, I don't have a thing for jumping/falling from heights, it's just that those scenes are so... sharp? I like how they contain everything they need to in so few words, it adds to the impact.

Special mention goes also to:

a/ Jaime serving Red Ronnet a bit of golden fist in the face,

b/ Tyrion deciding that whatever Sansa did, she is still his wife and he needs to protect her from the royal justice,

c/ the fact (more than a single scene) that Sansa bothered to create a memory of the Hound kissing her and is wrapping her whole puberty around it.

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

"You want her? Go get her."

So he did.

 

a/ Jaime serving Red Ronnet a bit of golden fist in the face,

 

This!

[Yukle]

5 hours ago, Tianzi said:

"You want her? Go get her."

So he did.

This scene is so Jaime, too. He is rash and just acts on impulse for the women he cares about. It's interesting that he doesn't do this for his children.

I also think that it's interesting to see his relationship (platonic or romantic) develop with Brienne while his one with Cersei deteriorates.

[Meera of Tarth]

12 hours ago, Yukle said:

This scene is so Jaime, too. He is rash and just acts on impulse for the women he cares about. It's interesting that he doesn't do this for his children.

I also think that it's interesting to see his relationship (platonic or romantic) develop with Brienne while his one with Cersei deteriorates.

PYes because his love for Brienne is true love and it takes time to develop. Firstly he has some random thoughts then he uncounsciously acts to defend her but he is noy comletely aware that he actually is falling in love with her, and consequently he h Acts 

This way.

 

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

Not quite romantic but it shows how struck Sandor is by Sansa since GoT.  She has her direwolf, Lady, with her and everyone else is scared of it and he says "The Starks use them for wetnurses."  He's not really mocking her.  It comes off as if he thinks that's one of the most badass metal things he's ever seen.  Not only is she pretty, she's a dog lover, and she's got a goddamn direwolf.     

[Sigella]

On 15 november 2016 at 0:19 PM, Yukle said:

 

What's your favourite romantic scene?

I don't really know why it strikes me but I think its when Jon thinks that he'd be okay if Yggritte conceived, even though he has such strong feelings against putting another bastard to life. When Stannis offers him Winterfell and the Stark name Jon thinks that he has never even allowed himself to think of having a son, but in actuality he did with Yggritte.

[Yukle]

On 12/3/2016 at 0:03 PM, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Not quite romantic but it shows how struck Sandor is by Sansa since GoT.  She has her direwolf, Lady, with her and everyone else is scared of it and he says "The Starks use them for wetnurses."  He's not really mocking her.  It comes off as if he thinks that's one of the most badass metal things he's ever seen.  Not only is she pretty, she's a dog lover, and she's got a goddamn direwolf.     

Hmm... I hadn't thought of it in this way. It probably is meant to be complimentary. A bit like Tormund's story of the bear, saying that the Starks use direwolves as wet nurses suggests he reckons Sansa is hardened as Seven Hells.

[The Hammer of Justice]

Not a romantic moment, but I think the most touching moment in the whole series is when Dunk is going to the trial of seven and he saw all the spectators, thinking they were all there to see him die, but they were actually rooting for him.

Man, that's was a beautiful scene.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 11/15/2016 at 10:06 PM, cyberdirectorfreedom said:

It's not erotic or sensual or anything like that, but the grandest romantic gesture I can think of in this series is the whole "The things I do for love" situation. It's one hell of a display of love and commitment. 

I can't stand Arianne and Arys' relationship. She really doesn't seem to care for him, which makes the whole situation very, very sad. He broke his vows with some harlot whose only interest in him was his useful position in her scheme to essentially kill his princess, and he died for it, too. Poor guy.

I disagree respectfully. It is not romantic to kill a child for someone when they do not really want it. One, he didn't ask what Cersei wanted and assumed. Two. He is sick. I would call his love for Cersei more of an obsession then romantic love.

Also, lets not call Arianne a harlot. Just because we are reading about a middle agesish world, doesn't mean we need to start slut shaming like they do. Arianne and Aerys both made their own free choices.

On 11/16/2016 at 9:05 AM, Yukle said:

I agree! This moment was so close to being a really great story about a husband and wife, from the perspective of them being quite normal people.

Then, just before it could get really touching, BAM, politics.

 

On 11/16/2016 at 8:30 AM, Ashes Of Westeros said:

It was difficult to think about a moment I would call romantic though ASOIAF is full of romance. The thing is that no love story in the series is about love itself, there are a lot of other things mixed in and it spoils a perfect moment every time. Cat & Ned after sex dialogue would be romantic if they won't talk about Ned becoming the Hand and Sansa's bethrothal.

I agree, it had the potential for a much more realistic form of romance, but they lacked a lot of scenes together sadly. I would actually say, although it is sad, when Catelyn requests to be left alone with her husband (his bones) it makes me cry every time. I think that is beautiful and if my partner ever died I would want one last night with her too. Jamie and Brienne have potential too, but Catelyn and Ned are my vote, especially the scene with the bones.

[Yukle]

13 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I agree, it had the potential for a much more realistic form of romance, but they lacked a lot of scenes together sadly. I would actually say, although it is sad, when Catelyn requests to be left alone with her husband (his bones) it makes me cry every time. I think that is beautiful and if my partner ever died I would want one last night with her too. Jamie and Brienne have potential too, but Catelyn and Ned are my vote, especially the scene with the bones.

That bit really shows a wife and husband, doesn't it? I really like how she relives a series of moments from throughout their lives. You're right, this is a really touching scene. You've summed it up well... it's romantic, just in a really tragic way. Her heartbreak is so clear.

[cyberdirectorfreedom]

16 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I disagree respectfully. It is not romantic to kill a child for someone when they do not really want it. One, he didn't ask what Cersei wanted and assumed. Two. He is sick. I would call his love for Cersei more of an obsession then romantic love.

Jaime knew that what he was doing was pretty horrible. To do something that you think is evil, to do something you'll hate yourself for, because it's the best thing for the one you love? Sounds pretty romantic to me. It's not a nice act, I'm not saying that, but it certainly showcases his love and commitment. I would also consider the line between romantic love and obsession to be paper thin. Romantic love can consume someone just as much as an obsession can.

16 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Also, lets not call Arianne a harlot. Just because we are reading about a middle agesish world, doesn't mean we need to start slut shaming like they do. Arianne and Aerys both made their own free choices.

I know this really isn't the place for it, but I have to say I just hate that term. Accusing someone of slut shaming is shame shaming. I saw something I disapproved of, and spoke of it disapprovingly. You disapproved of my disapproval, and spoke of it disapprovingly. Seems awfully hypocritical for it to be wrong for me, but okay for you. I just hate the attitude that disapproving of something is somehow bad. Being a slut is fine, being fat is fine, having stupid hair is fine, but "shaming" someone for these choices, oh no, you can't do that, you're the devil. I'm not even advocating against anything, I'm just disapproving. You can be a slut, you can have stupid hair, you can be fat; my disapproval won't change who you are, nor would I want it to. However, I'm not going to approve of all your actions, simply because you can take said actions. People are allowed to do as they wish; that includes disapproving of things. People always have, and always will, disapprove of things. This attempt to censor disapproval by telling people it's wrong to "shame" people is absurd, and highly hypocritical. Shaming someone into not shaming, honestly.

Sure, of course they both made their free choices, but that doesn't change the fact that Arianne manipulated Arys. Arianne pushed and pushed and pushed, and eventually Arys broke. This directly led to his death. Yes, his choice. He could've continued to resist her. He shares the blame for the things that happened, not saying he doesn't. It's a sad situation, and it was Arianne's manipulations that drew him into it. He tricked him into loving her (she made him believe she loved him back) and he died for it. It's never nice to be used.

Apologies for the off topic rant.

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

@cyberdirectorfreedom I really don't want this thread locked, so I'm only going to respond to the part about Aerys... The guy has all the moral fortitude of a wet noodle.  He doesn't get points for being the guy that beat Sansa the least severely.  He still hit her hard enough so he wouldn't get in trouble.  So I don't really feel that bad for him.  I don't think he actually loves Arianne either. I think he's following his manhood around but presenting himself as a Lancelot figure who was stricken with a forbidden love he was powerless to resist so he doesnt have to take any responsibility for his own choices.  That's pretty consistant with his behavior in KL too.  

[cyberdirectorfreedom]

1 hour ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

@cyberdirectorfreedom I really don't want this thread locked, so I'm only going to respond to the part about Aerys... The guy has all the moral fortitude of a wet noodle.  He doesn't get points for being the guy that beat Sansa the least severely.  He still hit her hard enough so he wouldn't get in trouble.  So I don't really feel that bad for him.  I don't think he actually loves Arianne either. I think he's following his manhood around but presenting himself as a Lancelot figure who was stricken with a forbidden love he was powerless to resist so he doesnt have to take any responsibility for his own choices.  That's pretty consistant with his behavior in KL too.  

Why shouldn't he "get points" for beating Sansa the least severely? Joffrey wanted someone to hit her; if not him, someone else was going to do it. If it was he that was called upon, lucky for Sansa. He hurt her the least he was able to, and we know he felt bad about it, which is more than we can say for his brothers. I don't think he hit her "so he wouldn't get in trouble", rather that he didn't want to break his oath. He had to follow his orders, though. Think of how Jaime is treated for killing Aerys, a man almost universally hated. People who hated Aerys disdain Jaime for killing him. People don't like people who break vows; Arys is no different, and he doesn't want to break his oath to obey the king, not only for how he'll be perceived by others, but how he'll perceive himself. He clearly struggles with his vows, as we can see in his chapter, and in how Arianne remembers him.

'If she only had a dragon for every time he had whispered, "We should not be doing this," she would be richer than the Lannisters.'

He must obey the king, but he wants to be a good, honourable person, above all. Here, with Sansa, his vows came first. On the other hand, with Arianne, he let his vows come second. He didn't want to dishonour (at least in his mind) Arianne.

"What if someone were to go to your father and tell him how I'd dishonored you?"

"Tell me true, ser, is it my dishonor that concerns you, or your own?" "Both."

I would say that Arys has problems deciding between his vows and his desires. His desire to be a decent person, in the situation with Joff and Sansa, didn't overtake his desire to keep to his oath. His desire for Arianne, however, did. I don't think that he's just pretending to love Arianne, unless he's seriously delusional. We have a chapter in his head, we see his thoughts. He seemed to love her, or at least honestly think he did.

His desire to keep to his vows is how Arianne was able to manipulate him. He supported Arianne with the belief that once Myrcella was Queen, she'd allow them to marry, so Arianne and Arys could be together, without breaking any vows.

"She will give us leave to marry if we ask." ... "You can have me and your white cloak both, if that is what you want."

She is tearing me apart. "You know I do, but . . ."

I just think he's deeply conflicted about whether to keep his vows, or follow his desires. I could certainly be wrong, but that's my impression of the man.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

11 hours ago, cyberdirectorfreedom said:

Jaime knew that what he was doing was pretty horrible. To do something that you think is evil, to do something you'll hate yourself for, because it's the best thing for the one you love? Sounds pretty romantic to me. It's not a nice act, I'm not saying that, but it certainly showcases his love and commitment. I would also consider the line between romantic love and obsession to be paper thin. Romantic love can consume someone just as much as an obsession can.

That is not romantic love. Obsessive love or lust perhaps, but not romantic love. Doing something evil for someone is obsession not romance. Romantic love is a partnership where neither party would ever expect the other to do something against their own morals. You are confusing romantic love with erotic love or something. The difference between obsession and romantic love is as wide as the gulf between the act of doing what u want (that does not effect others) and judging others. 

As far as your other rant goes, I will simply ask a question. So are you saying that it is the same, or in fact worse, to call somewhat out for saying something racist or sexist (I was even at least trying to do it as friendly as possible) as it is to say racist/sexist things? For example, let us say I see someone yell at someone and call them racist words for a black person. Are you saying I am just as bad as them if I call them a racist for doing so?

[cyberdirectorfreedom]

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

That is not romantic love. Obsessive love or lust perhaps, but not romantic love.

Romantic love is obsessive. By it's nature. It's a single minded devotion to another, to the exclusion of others. The thoughts and desires of one person being your only cares. Their wellbeing, their happiness, etc. Caring about one person beyond anything else, even the self. To love deeply is to obsess. 

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Romantic love is a partnership where neither party would ever expect the other to do something against their own morals.

It was hardly expected of him. He did it because he felt he had to. His commitment to Cersei went beyond his commitment to himself. To ensure Cersei's safety, he took an act on himself that he'd hate himself for. It's certainly a horrible act, but it's a clear indication of his love. What is a romantic gesture, but an indication of love? You can call it obsession, though I would call it love; but I would say that love implies obsession. You can have obsession without love, but you cannot have love without obsession.

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

You are confusing romantic love with erotic love or something.

I don't even know what that is. Love based purely around sex? Cersei and Jamie have something deeper than that. I don't really know what you're trying to say.

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

The difference between obsession and romantic love is as wide as the gulf between the act of doing what u want (that does not effect others) and judging others. 

Smooth. You do realise that you're judging me for judging others, right? Everybody is judgmental. You can't form opinions without making judgments. We judge ourselves, and we judge others. You've made the judgment that I'm wrong to be judgmental. You've judged Jaime's actions as evil, I've judged Arianne's actions as improper (before anyone goes there, no, I don't consider being a slut the same as pushing someone out of a tower window with the intention of killing them. Just talking about how often we make judgments).

Judgments are an integral part of human life. You're welcome to judge me for whatever you please, but unless I've got my definition of hypocrite wrong, judging someone for judging others makes you a hypocrite.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

49 minutes ago, cyberdirectorfreedom said:

Romantic love is obsessive. By it's nature. It's a single minded devotion to another, to the exclusion of others. The thoughts and desires of one person being your only cares. Their wellbeing, their happiness, etc. Caring about one person beyond anything else, even the self. To love deeply is to obsess. 

It was hardly expected of him. He did it because he felt he had to. His commitment to Cersei went beyond his commitment to himself. To ensure Cersei's safety, he took an act on himself that he'd hate himself for. It's certainly a horrible act, but it's a clear indication of his love. What is a romantic gesture, but an indication of love? You can call it obsession, though I would call it love; but I would say that love implies obsession. You can have obsession without love, but you cannot have love without obsession.

I don't even know what that is. Love based purely around sex? Cersei and Jamie have something deeper than that. I don't really know what you're trying to say.

Smooth. You do realise that you're judging me for judging others, right? Everybody is judgmental. You can't form opinions without making judgments. We judge ourselves, and we judge others. You've made the judgment that I'm wrong to be judgmental. You've judged Jaime's actions as evil, I've judged Arianne's actions as improper (before anyone goes there, no, I don't consider being a slut the same as pushing someone out of a tower window with the intention of killing them. Just talking about how often we make judgments).

Judgments are an integral part of human life. You're welcome to judge me for whatever you please, but unless I've got my definition of hypocrite wrong, judging someone for judging others makes you a hypocrite.

You seem to have ignored my final questions. No reason to even reapond to people who ignore the more important questions I asked.

As far as what romantic love is, you clearly have a very incorrect view of what true romantic love is. Please go talk to someone who has been married for 30 years or longer about love. They will let you know about what true love is, and obsession...is not part of it. No one can be obsessed forever, and that is why lust (or early stage love that can feel quite obsessive) disappears after a year or so. People who remain obsessed after that time frame can lose sight of what is actually important or why they even loved the person in the first place, which can be clearly seen in Jamie's character arc. He doesn't truly love Cersei, he was obsessed with her; and one he had a chance to step back and look at it, he saw whatever his reasons had been, they were long gone. I have had relationships like what you describe. They do not last, or if they, they change and adjust. My wife is my best friend, she is the person I care most about in this world, she is my family, she is not, however, an obsession. And I would never change my morals for her, because it is not true romantic love if you feel you have to.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

@cyberdirectorfreedom I can't speak for anyone else here obviously. But I will say this. The use of words such as Harlot and Slut is upsetting. These are words historically linked to the oppression and control of women. The concept behind Slut Shaming is to point out the oppressive nature of sex related slurs, especially the word Slut. Other words which seek to shame and control women's sexuality are just as harmful and when we use these words we enact all the history associated with that control and oppression.  The word Slut has been used to shame, coerce control and blame women for decades and is extremely evocative of those things.  Hence the offence using words like it casually; and yes, Harlot falls under that category, causes. 

Coincidentally I agree regarding the nature of Judgement. We do all do it. But I think we can all agree that the degree of and nature of judgement varies. And interwoven through the notion of Judgement is also the evasive definition of morality.  Women's sexuality is a good example. You used the word Slut; I think, and please correct me if I am wrong, without fully understanding the words connotations, it's history or the effect bandying it about has on women.  And for that I'm likely going to judge that you are quite young and not particularly intellectual. Am I wrong? quite possibly.  But as you yourself pointed out, we all make judgements. A person may judge a woman who engages in sexual intercourse with a non sanctioned male; as a slut. And that word is powerful, it has powerful consequences for the woman it is used against. In some cases being labelled as a slut can get a woman killed. And don't think I am just talking about those "backwards" middle eastern countries either. I think I only have to point you towards a newspapers to see how many women are murdered all over the world daily as a direct consequence of a man seeking to control, pass judgement on, and otherwise own a woman's sexuality.

 So yeah these are not light words to be thrown around without thought.  Isn't it wonderful how GRRM directly echo's all of this in the novels. 

Up thread we have a quote from Arys speaking about the consequences of discovery of their illicit sexual contact. 

Quote

"What if someone were to go to your father and tell him how I'd dishonored you?"

"Tell me true, ser, is it my dishonor that concerns you, or your own?" "Both."

The use of words like honour and dishonour with regards to a woman's sexuality highlight the issue. Here she questions if it is her dishonour(sex outside of marriage, in which it is her father who he fears upsetting) he is concerned with or his own dishonour in breaking his vows?  the answer to this is both. As both parties risk social shame if they are discovered.  He as an oath breaker, and she as a soiled woman. We see and hear various accounts in the novels about women suffering for their sexual behaviour too, as when a woman behaves outside of the strict confines society has set out for her, society comes down hard on her for it. Here the difference culturally between Dorne & the rest of the seven kingdoms is highlighted, as Arrianne isn't as in danger from the discovery as say, a high born maid in the Vale or the Reach would be. 

This is true in our own world too and whilst things have indeed improved for some women in this world, we too are a long way off equality.  So your casual use of the word Slut and your defence of the word Harlot will indeed garner judgement on you from others. And by your own standards, they have every right to do so.  Just as you can within your rights to judge me as a pearl clutching liberal yogurt weaving feminist. And that's ok. So long as you are happy to own the fact that I'll be judging you right back.    

Would you use any other harmful slurs when typing on this or any other forum, and not expect a backlash? I mean out of context such as in this case.  Would you casually call Jon Connington a fag? 

[rotting sea cow]

A little pearl from aDwD regarding demeaning vocabulary

Quote

Her last foe was a northman with an axe, a big man bald and bearded, clad in a byrnie of patched and rusted mail that could only mean he was a chief or champion. He was not pleased to find himself fighting a woman. “Cunt!” he roared each time he struck at her, his spittle dampening her cheeks. “Cunt! Cunt!”

- The Wayward Bride

Quote

It was Morgan who had almost slain Asha in the fight by Deepwood Motte. He had come to her later, on the march, to beg her pardon ... for calling her cunt in his battle lust, not for trying to split her head open with an axe.

- The King's Prize

Quote

“That prancing fool? What do you want with him, cunt? If it’s a fuck you need, I’m more a man than Massey.”

Cunt again? It was odd how men like Suggs used that word to demean women when it was the only part of a woman they valued. And Suggs was worse than Middle Liddle. When he says the word, he means it.

- The Sacrifice

So Morgan Liddle insulted Asha during battle.  In the end they were meaning to kill each other, but had honor enough to apologize for for the insult, but not for trying to kill her, which was of course fair game. Suggs has no justification.

[rotting sea cow]

On 11/28/2016 at 1:48 PM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

See, I love their sex scene. I know it is from Sam's POV. But if you read the scene and tryto get inside Gilly's head it's pretty special. Gilly has never so much as experienced a consensual kiss before. 

Now, Just cut out Sams self doubt and guilt. And focus on Gilly. She kisses him, And he kisses her back, she's never done this before, only ever known the kisses of her father, and never before taken her sexuality in her own hands and instigated an encounter with a man of her own choosing. And I think if we put Sam's thoughts aside for a moment we can hear her exaltation at this. She knows what she wants, and she's pro active in getting it. Sam is recounting the sensations as he experiences them, and we get a sense of fervour and desire from him, intermingled with his concern at breaking his vows.  the Rum, the Milk, his sense of surprise at his own erection. 

Then Gilly pushes him down onto the pallet, this is her taking control once again, and agian think back she's never been able to do this before, every encounter she has ever experienced has been rape. she has only ever been passive and abused. Now she makes a whimpery sound as she lowers herself onto him. That's a sound Sam describes as even better than her nipples, so I'm guessing it's a sound made from satisfaction not pain. She's expressing the triumpn of her moment here. And she crowns that triumph with the asertion that she is his wife now. I feel this is almost a cleansing experience for her. It's powerful and sexy and certainly romantic when you think about it from her point of view, rather than Sam's conflicted thoughts and bumbling virginity. 

clap clap clap! Excellent post. That's why ASOIAF is much more than a fantasy book, with a complex plot