Can Robert Baratheon still fight?

[Jon Fossoway]

I think he could fight decently, but lose all the same. He goes hunting with a certain frequency, and that means moving the fat ass and at least conserving strenght in arms. 

[Light a wight tonight]

He managed to kill the boar that ripped his guts open, using just his dagger. He's a tough mofo, no doubt about it. To those who say that weapons are equalizers, the warriors in the story fought armored, and Robert's strength and use of the war hammer would defeat said armor. The only tactic for someone of a modest skill level would be what Bronn used against Vardys Egan, to avoid being pulped until Robert exhausted himself. And the, swords are marginally effective against armor, so the opponent would either need something else or get close to Robert, at which point he'd be placing himself in danger (think Oberyn vs Gergor).

Can George Foreman still box? Climb into the ring with him and find out.

[Clegane'sPup]

 

43 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Can George Foreman still box? Climb into the ring with him and find out.

Yeah I agree King Robert was a tough sob. It's just that the rules of Westeros proclaim that his highness can not be struck without due penalty.

If we wanna talk heavy weight, no way could Foreman today take on either of the Klitschko brothers. I'm outta the loop now. Who is the big bad.

[Yukle]

1 hour ago, Light a wight tonight said:

He managed to kill the boar that ripped his guts open, using just his dagger. He's a tough mofo, no doubt about it. To those who say that weapons are equalizers, the warriors in the story fought armored, and Robert's strength and use of the war hammer would defeat said armor

Agreed. The issue is not his lack of technique. There's no doubt that he still has excellent precision when he needs to thrust a weapon. Similarly, he is still monstrously strong.

The real issue is that he wouldn't be able to fight for much longer than a very short period. Strong Belwas was overweight but also still in reasonably good physical shape. Robert, on the other hand, is not. A sustained duel, even fully armoured, would wear him out very quickly. A Bear Island style wrestling match or a bare-fisted fight would be his best bet.

The strange thing about him becoming fat is that his muscular mass probably got bigger. He was strong to begin with but he has to carry much more bulk. It's kind of like doing permanent weights, and in fact, this is a true phenomenon: obese people do have increased strength. The risk is on their hearts and extremities (from things like diabetes), not their muscles.

Ned was wise to encourage him not to enter the melee. He'd almost certainly have monstered a few opponents early in the fight, but even ten minutes would be too much for his stamina.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

18 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Can George Foreman still box?

Against me? Sure, he'd kick my motherfuckin' ass.

Against a boxer? Nope, he'd get his motherfuckin' ass kicked.

18 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

To those who say that weapons are equalizers, the warriors in the story fought armored, and Robert's strength and use of the war hammer would defeat said armor.

Only if he managed to land a blow, and that's far from guaranteed if he's facing someone who's quicker than him, or who's skilled enough with whatever weapon they're using that they can deflect his attacks.

18 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

...swords are marginally effective against armor, so the opponent would either need something else or get close to Robert, at which point he'd be placing himself in danger (think Oberyn vs Gergor).

Well, the Oberyn vs. Gregor was ridiculous. Realistically, you can't find a man who's that big and that strong, especially after he's been impaled upon a spear. It was a great scene, but it could never happen. (Then again, none of this could happen, so I suppose I shouldn't worry.)

And swords are more effective than you might think.against someone in armour. I'm no expert - I've just watched a few Schola Gladitoria videos on YouTube - but there's a technique called "half-swording" where they grab the sword by the blade and use the pommel like a warhammer. And realistically, it doesn't much matter where a sword cuts you, as long as it severs enough blood vessels. A skilled swordsman can exploit those chinks in your armour and kill you pretty good, even if he can't get at your vital organs. And finally, they often used to carry a thin dagger or a "rondel" with them, so that, if they succeeded in knocking their opponent to the ground - surprisingly common, apparently knights were extensively trained in wrestling for this very reason - they could stick a blade through their opponent's visor and stab them in the face.

Point being, there's lots of ways an armoured knight, armed with a sword, could defeat Robert; whereas they'd be considerably more at the mercy of his strength if they fought unarmoured and unarmed.

16 hours ago, Yukle said:

The strange thing about him becoming fat is that his muscular mass probably got bigger. He was strong to begin with but he has to carry much more bulk. It's kind of like doing permanent weights, and in fact, this is a true phenomenon: obese people do have increased strength. The risk is on their hearts and extremities (from things like diabetes), not their muscles.

Speaking as a big fat weakling, this is a myth. Lack of exercise makes you more susceptible to heart problems; poor diet gives you diabetes and stomach cancer; both together will make you fat, but it's not the fat that's actually causing you your health problems. And it certainly won't make you stronger.

[John Doe]

He won't be stronger than back when he was fit, but he would still be stronger than the average guy, probably even the average fighter, just because he is a giant with a lot of fat to carry. Of course he wouldn't be as durable or agile, which would put him at a disadvantage. 

 

But I'd say he could still fight, he's still strong and he's still got his spirit- like you can see when he wrestles that boar to the ground and stabs it to death with his insides hanging out. On the other hand, he would tire quickly and not be very agile, so in single-combat against experienced opponents, he would be at severe disadvantage, against average fighters, especially in a buhurt, I think he would stand a chance.

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 11/22/2016 at 4:24 AM, Alexander Targaryen said:

So my question is; if Robert Baratheon at the time of A Game of Thrones put on a suit of armor and took up his warhammer, how capable would he be as a combatant? How much strength and skill do you think he still has after fifteen years of feasting and drinking?

As of the first book he still fights in Tourney Melees so he can't be too out of shape. Not sure how many he wins though  

[Clegane'sPup]

There was a rumor that someone participating in the melee that Robert supposedly was going to participate in was not going to follow the protocol of not striking the King.

I'm kinda thinking that if Robert had participated in the melee he would have not have to had confront the boar to meet his death..

 

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

11 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

As of the first book he still fights in Tourney Melees so he can't be too out of shape. Not sure how many he wins though  

Actually, in that book, he wants to participate in a tourney melee, and he's complaining to Ned that it's been far too long since he fought.
Check the summary of GoT Chapter 30.

[Dorian Martell's son]

10 hours ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Actually, in that book, he wants to participate in a tourney melee, and he's complaining to Ned that it's been far too long since he fought.
Check the summary of GoT Chapter 30.

Yes, but he still fought after he became king, it had just been a while 

[PCK]

He'd have to spend at least 6 months training, in order to work off the alcohol weight. At 34, he's nearly out of his prime. His last fight was about 10 years ago during the Greyjoy Rebellion. He'd be slower, completely dependent on his power. Virtually any speed he ever had would be gone. 

[Lord Varys]

If Ned hadn't been all that exaggerating when he mentioned that he could scarcely lift Robert's war hammer we can be reasonably sure that the man must have been very strong indeed. And the force of that hammer should have crushed Rhaegar pretty quickly considering that it is rather unlikely that you can survive the impact of such a hammer crushing down on your armor for long. Once Rhaegar had lost his shield the battle would have been over.

Robert would have retained some of that strength fifteen years later but he would have tired much earlier and he most likely replaced a lot of muscles with fat. Still, he would have been still as tall as he was in his youth.

The more important thing is that the fat drunkard most definitely no longer inspired the same amount of awe and loyalty in Robert's subjects, explaining why he himself admits he has no true friends left but Ned.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

20 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If Ned hadn't been all that exaggerating when he mentioned that he could scarcely lift Robert's war hammer we can be reasonably sure that the man must have been very strong indeed.

I think the more likely explanation is that GRRM didn't know much about warhammers.

[Lord Varys]

11 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I think the more likely explanation is that GRRM didn't know much about warhammers.

Certainly a possibility. Still, in Westeros Robert's warhammer is now established as this huge heavy thing. No easy way around that. I mean, what kind of weight could Ned scarcely lift. 60 kilograms? 40 kilograms? Something around that I guess. If somebody crushes such a weight against your skull full force no armor on the world should be able to protect you.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

23 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Certainly a possibility. Still, in Westeros Robert's warhammer is now established as this huge heavy thing. No easy way around that. I mean, what kind of weight could Ned scarcely lift. 60 kilograms? 40 kilograms? Something around that I guess. If somebody crushes such a weight against your skull full force no armor on the world should be able to protect you.

I would say more like 60kg. Maybe more, I dunno, I don't lift weights. I just remember the old 40kg bags of cement were doable. That was at the outside limits of my strength, so an actual fit person with weapons training etc ought to be able to lift more.

 

But here's the thing, Robert needs not only to be strong enough to lift the thing, he's got to swing it fast enough to hit somebody who's trying to dodge it. How's he gonna manage that with a 60kg sledgehammer? It doesn't matter how strong he is.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 11/22/2016 at 7:01 AM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Serious answer: he would get creamed by pretty much anyone

Weapons are equalisers, meaning that while a strong man has an advantage over a weak man in a fistfight, that advantage is significantly decreased if they both have swords; strength matters less than skill where a weapon is concerned. You only need to be strong enough to lift your weapon. Put it another way: a sword is dangerous because it's 3 or 4 kg of mass, multiplied by however much acceleration your arm can give it, which gives you however much force: this force is concentrated into a very small area, the sharp edge of the blade, and thus it cuts thru flesh and severs blood vessels, causing death. If we're both armed with swords and I'm relatively weak, and I can kill you by severing an artery, what benefit does your strength give you? You can apply more force than me, but if I'm already applying enough force to cut your arm off, then there's nowhere left to go, is there?

So Robert's strength is no advantage. But even in fisticuffs, I say he'd be in danger against anybody with some training, because he's a big fat pig. If the fight lasts longer than 30 seconds then Robert's going to be out of breath and painfully slow. If he's fighting with weapons, that slowness will cost him his life within a minute, two at the outside.

Fightin's about physical fitness. Watch a boxing match. In fact, watch this boxing match, wherein a tubby bare knuckle boxing champion squares off against a professional boxer that I've never heard of (not that I'm an expert on boxing). Fight starts at 2 mins in. It does not last long.

What sword is 4 kg? Even claymores didn't break 3

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

42 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

What sword is 4 kg? Even claymores didn't break 3

Dunno. I think I read somewhere that's how much they weighed. I'm open to correction.

But note, that just makes my point even stronger.

[Jasta11]

His lack of fitness (seriously, he's taken out of breath by descending a staircase, I wasn't anywhere near that even when I weighted 270 pounds) is a pretty severe black mark against him. Fighting isn't just about raw power; fitness is also pretty important. He probably still has the strength and determination to be pretty dangerous, but pit him against a competent fighter that's not afraid of him and he loses, no questions asked.

EDIT: also, Ned not being able to even lift Robert's hammer is pure artistic license (and/or exageration) on Martin's part. Ned is never said to be a weak man by any anyone, and he's a well fed and young noble trained in combat so he is by all means reasonably fit and strong. A warhammer that he cannot even lift couldn't possibly have weighted less than 40 KGs, probably more; if Robert can fight with something that heavy, he's not just very strong, he's a comic book superhuman at that point. Nobody can fight with something so heavy for any significant amount of time without dislocating their shoulder or tiring out after a minute, and such a mass is close to impossible to control in the first place so you're not hitting anyone other than Bran with it.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

Yes, it is a big hammer. A very big hammer. Going to be heavy as well. I insisted on that. After all, it says right in the book that Robert's warhammer was so huge and heavy that only someone with his own freakish strength could wield it. So I kept telling them, "bigger, bigger."

Valyrian Steel has done some lovely versions of Longclaw, Needle, and Ice (all of which remain available from their store), but I think the hammer is my favorite to date. (GRRM)

There be dragons in this story, there be super-powered numenorian style guys aswell, Robert being part of a handful of them

[Yukle]

6 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I think the more likely explanation is that GRRM didn't know much about warhammers.

I suspect that's the case, too. To be anything like what it's described it'd have to be too unwieldy to actually use in combat. If his duel with Rhaegar was as long as is described, I find it hard that such a heavy hammer was able to parry Rhaegar's sword. Similarly, it seems strange that Rhaegar could block what is essentially hundreds of kilograms of force (once the momentum of the swing is factored in) being applied into a small, fist-sized space.

Then again, it does make the story compelling.