Kitten of the Canals

What will happen to Stannis in TWOW?

192 posts in this topic

On 11/26/2017 at 4:52 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

 

 

He'll survive the battle with the Snow, but unless he sees a vision from the past... We all know Dany for the pyromaniac she is and she also wants to slay lies such as shadowless blue eyed kings wielding colorful swords.

Absolutely. She has a dragon and she's not afraid to use it. Just as Krazy me Dragonchow in Astapor. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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I have come to the conclusion that Stannis will indeed take Winterfell. And this will have a dramatic impact on the storyline, as it means Jon won't be the one to take back his ancestral castle from the Boltons. It will be a southron jackanape that does so.

Furthermore, it means Stannis, and not Jon, becomes the rallying point for the North in the immediate future, given that he holds Winterfell. And it probably means that Jon's period as a Ghost and his journey back to being a human might take a bit longer, perhaps even most of the next book.

On the one hand I cannot help but have some appreciation for this, given that Stannis is such a strong character that like Tywin, the series will inevitably feel poorer once he is gone. But on the other hand, it makes the waters a bit more murky in terms of how the return of the Starks can be portrayed in triumphant fashion. If they simply join with Stannis, they are relegated to supporting players in their own Kingdom, and I simply don't think this is the route Martin will take, after all the effort expended on the Stark family.

The fun part now is to try and figure out how the story unfolds given a Stannis victory and successful conquest of Winterfell. I need to think on it a bit more.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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On ‎29‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 9:54 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

I have come to the conclusion that Stannis will indeed take Winterfell. And this will have a dramatic impact on the storyline, as it means Jon won't be the one to take back his ancestral castle from the Boltons. It will be a southron jackanape that does so.

Furthermore, it means Stannis, and not Jon, becomes the rallying point for the North in the immediate future, given that he holds Winterfell. And it probably means that Jon's period as a Ghost and his journey back to being a human might take a bit longer, perhaps even most of the next book.

On the one hand I cannot help but have some appreciation for this, given that Stannis is such a strong character that like Tywin, the series will inevitably feel poorer once he is gone. But on the other hand, it makes the waters a bit more murky in terms of how the return of the Starks can be portrayed in triumphant fashion. If they simply join with Stannis, they are relegated to supporting players in their own Kingdom, and I simply don't think this is the route Martin will take, after all the effort expended on the Stark family.

The fun part now is to try and figure out how the story unfolds given a Stannis victory and successful conquest of Winterfell. I need to think on it a bit more.

I can't see Stannis heading South anytime soon, with him being intent on defending the realm. To me, this means he'll either live for the most of the next book, perhaps even survivng as far as the last book or Dany will go North.

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I think that Stannis will unite the North and the Riverlands. Boltons made a huge mistake sending peoples outside walls of Winterfall. Fellow Lord Manderly will help Stannis. Then he will head north to the Wall. Or maybe he will go further south to free Storm's End if the castle will falls to Griffs.

Shereen will not be burned. 

Edited by Sergey Dukman

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On 4-12-2017 at 10:49 PM, Sergey Dukman said:

I think that Stannis will unite the North and the Riverlands. Boltons made a huge mistake sending peoples outside walls of Winterfall. Fellow Lord Manderly will help Stannis. Then he will head north to the Wall. Or maybe he will go further south to free Storm's End if the castle will falls to Griffs.

Shereen will not be burned. 

Stannis won't go so far south, even if he does he will not have enough men to march all the way south to free Storm's end(wich hasn't much value anymore) There will be Lannisters and Tyrell's waiting for him if he does.

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On 2.9.2017 at 2:49 AM, Dragonsbone said:

Exactly. This is why a "rightful" King is kind of an oxymoron. There can not be a "rightful" King, since every dynasty becomes a dynasty by breaking a Law.

Well, I would say:

As long as a dynasty exists, there IS a succession rule and there ARE reightfull heirs.
As long as anyone kills the "rightful King" and ursurps the throne for himself...

 

It's a kind of "the winner makes the rules"...

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I think Stannis may end up victorious in the upcoming battle, but some weird twist of fate will happen to take him out. Martin loves to play things out like that where a plan falls apart because of unforseen circumstances that complicate things. Either way, I don't see Stannis making it out of the north, or TWOW alive. But I don't expect his downfall to be anything like it played out in the show.

Shireen being burned alive will likely happen, but without Stannis beimg present. I don't think he will make it back to the wall.

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I was certain Shireen was going to end up on a bonfire when they burned the idols of the seven back before they left Dragonstone. The idea that Stannis was going to end up a hero was always ridiculous as far as I am concerned.

Shireen's death must be both significant and futile. Stannis must be forced but to play his last card before he is written out. It will be his third use of witchcraft and it must therefore be the end of him. It will allow him to get to Winterfell but not take it. Having his army desert him seems like the likely score.

Winterfell must fall to Jon but not soon since Jon is dead. The north remembers subplot is giving a strong indication that the Boltons won't lose it in a set piece battle. 

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My hope/prediction (I've read a lot of this in other posts so most of it is not my ideas, just stuff I agree with):

The Manderlys somehow alert Stannis that they are going to turn on the Freys, and together they destroy the Frey army marching on Stannis' position. The Manderlys return to Winterfell "victorious" and state that Stannis' army was smashed and present the Boltons with Lightbringer. The pink letter is legit, but the information is incorrect. The Manderlys inside Winterfell open the doors to Stannis, who sacks the city. Ramsay and Roose are either killed or executed, although I could see them possibly escaping only to be killed later by Northerners they thought were friends but were secretly loyal to the Starks.

Meanwhile, back at the Wall Mel sees the contents of the pink letter and, believing them to true, sacrifices Shireen to bring back Stannis. But Jon Snow is resurrected instead, so Mel then believes he is AA Reborn instead of Stannis. Stannis sends for Mel, Shireen and the wife to come to Winterfell, or perhaps he returns to Castle Black. Upon learning of Shireen's burning, he kills Mel (I'm thinking he strangles her with his bare hands) but is killed in turn by Selyse in the heat of the moment. The "Queen's Men" rally to Jon Snow becuase they learn of his resurrection, while the North unites behind the newly returned Rickon Stark (who would just be a figurehead for Wyman Manderly provided he survives the battle at Winterfell). 

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OR: Melisandre realizes, he is not Azor Ahai reborn - and burns Stannis in order to ressurect Jon!

:eek:

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On 11/29/2017 at 5:54 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

I have come to the conclusion that Stannis will indeed take Winterfell. And this will have a dramatic impact on the storyline, as it means Jon won't be the one to take back his ancestral castle from the Boltons. It will be a southron jackanape that does so.

Furthermore, it means Stannis, and not Jon, becomes the rallying point for the North in the immediate future, given that he holds Winterfell. And it probably means that Jon's period as a Ghost and his journey back to being a human might take a bit longer, perhaps even most of the next book.

Depending on how it's written, that could be a fantastic story.

It would also put Stannis in a bind that cracks two of his fundamental character traits: he sees himself as king, and is trying to save the people of his kingdom. He'd see Jon as an oath-breaker to the Night's Watch and would therefore want him executed.

However, Stannis is also committed to winning the battle against the Others, and Jon is crucial to holding the support of the Free Folk, who significantly outnumber the Night's Watch and are needed to man the Wall.

I think, therefore, that Stannis will win the battle and then, as he sees it as his duty, grimly and furiously head north in response to the Others' march. I'm convinced that Stannis will die trying to hold the Wall, all the while grinding his teeth in bitterness that the North isn't really loyal to him, the Seven Kingdoms won't accept him and that he is the only one of the five kings to have done his duty.

If there's one tragically consistent element of Stannis' narrative it's that his pride compels him to be the greatest by following the "correct" path. And I think that, sadly, it'll see him killed doing his duty.

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12 minutes ago, Yukle said:

Depending on how it's written, that could be a fantastic story.

It would also put Stannis in a bind that cracks two of his fundamental character traits: he sees himself as king, and is trying to save the people of his kingdom. He'd see Jon as an oath-breaker to the Night's Watch and would therefore want him executed.

However, Stannis is also committed to winning the battle against the Others, and Jon is crucial to holding the support of the Free Folk, who significantly outnumber the Night's Watch and are needed to man the Wall.

I think, therefore, that Stannis will win the battle and then, as he sees it as his duty, grimly and furiously head north in response to the Others' march. I'm convinced that Stannis will die trying to hold the Wall, all the while grinding his teeth in bitterness that the North isn't really loyal to him, the Seven Kingdoms won't accept him and that he is the only one of the five kings to have done his duty.

If there's one tragically consistent element of Stannis' narrative it's that his pride compels him to be the greatest by following the "correct" path. And I think that, sadly, it'll see him killed doing his duty.

At this moment I kind of agree with you.

I did a reread recently and remembered how interesting the Wall is at the moment. We have super old books (that jon is slowly reading), the wildlings that know things nobody else knows, the weeper is creeping nearby, benjen will have to appear either before the others or as a other, the corpses jon put in the cells that might get wightified so that we can have a person talk with them, Giants and their culture and tong, interesting people from the riverlands might be coming  and jon's training as a warg. 

I think I would like for jon to stay at the Wall for a lot of the next book and that stannis goes to the Wall (after the battle at winterfell) when jon goes south. Then we could have na epilogue from stannis dieing because he doesn t have lightbringer but being able to stop the first attack from the others...

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