Football: Silly season

[Jordan La Cabra]

2 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

A few outlets - mostly Spanish - have been reporting that a deal is a "matter of hours away" for a few days now. The reliable Liverpool sources (Paul Joyce/Melissa Reddy) insist that Barca have not even made another bid other than their initial offer of £75m made about 3 weeks ago. Spanish outlets were also reporting that Barca officials are in England to conclude a deal - this turned out to be complete bullshit.

Personally, I don't see it happening. If they lost Coutinho without a replacement of equal quality lined up, Klopp would be having de-ja-vu, realising that being at Liverpool is no different to Dortmund in the sense that they will always sell their best players. The Liverpool fans would be in uproar if the owners were to let him go, especially for anything less than £100m, or at least a Premier League record fee. Even with the Neymar money, considering Barca's last bid was £75m, I really can't see them upping it £25m over the next few weeks, especially if Dembele will cost £90m.

I still think Liverpool will get another year out of him, mainly due to the fact it's coming across that Coutinho wants it to be done amicably as opposed to having to push through a move. At this stage of the summer, if he wanted to go, he'd have to start pushing for the move, just as VvD seems to be doing.

[baxus]

1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

He would gain the opportunity to avoid picking up an actual injury, which would scupper any move away from Arsenal, with less than a month of the window left. It would also be a way of putting himself in the shop window, sort of saying 'come get me' to potential suitors.

How many times have we seen stuff like players not being played until they get their move? Look at Dmitri Payet in January. He wanted Marseille, refused to play, was banished from training and Marseille still weren't put off him. If City want him, they won't be put off him for downing tools at Arsenal to make the move happen. Virgil van Djik is doing it at Southampton, right now, and that won't put Liverpool or Chelsea off him.

At the start of the 2015/16 PL season, Louis van Gaal played Sergio Romero ahead of David de Gea until his future was sorted out. It is quite common for a situation like this to arise. If I remember correctly, Cesc Fabregas and RVP were 'injured' around about this time in the 2011/12 and 2012/13 seasons.

He can pick up an injury in training, or at home, doing nothing. It's not as if those freak injuries are unheard of. Of the top of my head I can remember Canizares missing 2002 World Cup when he dropped an after shave bottle on his foot and broke some bones and Seaman messing his back up after getting off the floor while playing with his kids. Given enough time, I'd probably think of some other cases, as I'm sure would most boarders here.

Avoiding an injury through not training would mess with his shape as much as an actual injury might, so I'm not sure that would be the reason.

Payet, Van Dijk and De Gea are all very poor analogies. First two were/are actively pushing for transfers out, refused to train and/or play etc. while De Gea was benched by the manager to pressure him to commit to the club. None of them faked injuries though, and there was no smokescreen or whatever you choose to call it.

I must admit I don't remember either Fabregas or Van Persie's injuries when they left Arsenal. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't follow Arsenal that closely to remember things like that.

[Rorshach]

On a slightly meta note, I think it's nice to see that player power is somewhat diminished from its peak. A few years back, players could more or less force through moves at will. Now, clubs hold back.

Probably a result of the new money flowing through the PL, as clubs can afford to have sulking players. Now, I think that the money sooner or later will stop flowing, and clubs will have to tighten, probably leading to more player power again. But, for the moment, it's good to see that contracts are worth more than toilet paper when the player has a change of heart (read: more lucrative offer).

[Philokles]

19 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I haven't seen much of Christensen, to be fair. Would you say RCB would be his best position in a back three?

I reckon he would be most comfortable there or in the middle as a right footer, one of whose strengths is composure on the ball. He did play a decent amount as the LCB in a back four this past season as the senior centre-back and did not look out of place.

 

 

 

Apparently Man Utd turned down Isco in 2013 because "his head is too big for his body." And people wonder why data based scouting is overtaking traditional methods.

[Mark Antony]

Idk why Barca haven't thought about Alexis as a stop gap solution till Dembele gets a little older. Id be hesitant to throw 150 at Dembele right now if I was them.

[Jordan La Cabra]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

He can pick up an injury in training, or at home, doing nothing. It's not as if those freak injuries are unheard of. Of the top of my head I can remember Canizares missing 2002 World Cup when he dropped an after shave bottle on his foot and broke some bones and Seaman messing his back up after getting off the floor while playing with his kids. Given enough time, I'd probably think of some other cases, as I'm sure would most boarders here.

Avoiding an injury through not training would mess with his shape as much as an actual injury might, so I'm not sure that would be the reason.

Payet, Van Dijk and De Gea are all very poor analogies. First two were/are actively pushing for transfers out, refused to train and/or play etc. while De Gea was benched by the manager to pressure him to commit to the club. None of them faked injuries though, and there was no smokescreen or whatever you choose to call it.

I must admit I don't remember either Fabregas or Van Persie's injuries when they left Arsenal. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't follow Arsenal that closely to remember things like that.

Rio Ferdinand injured himself falling down stairs or slipping at home. Thibaut Courtois injured himself last season taking part at a basketball event. Freak injuries happen, obviously, but players see playing in a match or a training as a more likely way to get injured, which is why some refuse to train or play when forcing a move through.

I'm not certain or suggesting that I believe 100% Alexis is, but he played in all 38 league games last season and 51 overall, that's not taking into account he played in two Copa Americas and a Confederation's Cup in each of the last 3 summers. The man is notorious for not picking up injuries, or if he does, being that thran that he would rather play through them because he hates missing matches. That's why I think the timing is strange and he's showing the signs of a player that's trying to move.

As I said, I'd rather he stayed at Arsenal than left for City. If European clubs were interested in him, I wouldn't mind him going there, but none are. It seems City are the only interested party.

 

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, Mark Antony said:

Idk why Barca haven't thought about Alexis as a stop gap solution till Dembele gets a little older. Id be hesitant to throw 150 at Dembele right now if I was them.

Why would Alexis go to Barca when he already left coz he didn't get along there?


 

 

1 hour ago, Horse of Kent said:

Apparently Man Utd turned down Isco in 2013 because "his head is too big for his body." And people wonder why data based scouting is overtaking traditional methods.

Well, hey, given the Jordan Henderson situation I'm expecting Isco's head to literally fly off any day now.

Or maybe it's a 'who needs Zidane when we've got Sherwood' situation.

[Mark Antony]

17 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Why would Alexis go to Barca when he already left coz he didn't get along there?.

Is that why he left? I just figured it was cause they were getting Suarez. 

[Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

Apparently Man Utd turned down Isco in 2013 because "his head is too big for his body." And people wonder why data based scouting is overtaking traditional methods.

That certainly would explain why he kept falling over during the game.

Seriously though, this story reeks of bullshit. Must've been a slow news day at ESPN.

 

ETA. Looks like Barca have not yet given up on Coutinho. Paul Joyce reporting that Barca have tabled a second offer of £90.3m.

[Jordan La Cabra]

13 hours ago, Consigliere said:

That certainly would explain why he kept falling over during the game.

Seriously though, this story reeks of bullshit. Must've been a slow news day at ESPN.

 

ETA. Looks like Barca have not yet given up on Coutinho. Paul Joyce reporting that Barca have tabled a second offer of £90.3m.

Sky sports saying Liverpool rejected a £90.4m bid for Coutinho.

In my opinion, that money would be no use for them other than to fill their own pockets. Coutinho isn't one of the best players in the world; I wouldn't even count him in the top 3 in the Premier League. But with the inflated prices, with Liverpool's stock as a 'big' team being more questionable than ever given their infrequent appearances in the Champions League and lack of silverware - no trophies won since before Coutinho signed - even if they get £120m for Coutinho, they are not going to be able to find a replacement of the same quality.

But if Barca are ready to throw £90.4m around, it shows they are serious. They've upped their last bid by over £15m. Liverpool have a real job on their hands if they want to keep him.

[BigFatCoward]

Talk of Mbappe going to PSG, i hope it happens and he turns out to be the second coming, and Neymar ends up playing second fiddle again.

[ljkeane]

40 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

But if Barca are ready to throw £90.4m around, it shows they are serious. They've upped their last bid by over £15m. Liverpool have a real job on their hands if they want to keep him.

What Barcelona do isn't that important really. It's pretty clear Liverpool don't particularly need or want the money, the issue is whether Coutinho is going to try and force through a move.

Most reports seem to suggest probably not although depending on how Liverpool do this year he might feel differently next Summer. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

14 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

What Barcelona do isn't that important really. It's pretty clear Liverpool don't particularly need or want the money, the issue is whether Coutinho is going to try and force through a move.

Most reports seem to suggest probably not although depending on how Liverpool do this year he might feel differently next Summer. 

Most reports suggested that he wouldn't force a move through prior to Barca launching a bid that would make him the second most expensive player ever. If he wants to move, the more serious Barca make their attempts to sign him, the more he will want to go.

 

[ljkeane]

I doubt it makes too much difference. Either way Barcelona are paying a lot of money for him, what does he care how much it is? Barcelona are interested in signing him and he's either willing to spit his dummy to try and force a move or he isn't.

[Jordan La Cabra]

If you are a player that wants to join a club and that club offers a record bid for you, that would only get you thinking about joining the club even more than before, there is no denying that. He says he wants to move if it can be done amicably without him having to push for it. No matter if he wants to leave smoothly or forcefully, he still wants to leave. And the more Barca pursue him, the more eager he will be to join them, as a player's career is short and these chances may not come again, especially if Barca get someone else.

Liverpool don't need to sell him, and it would be good to see Barca refused, as they and Real Madrid think they can get anyone, but there is definitely a good chance that he will move by the end of the window.

[ljkeane]

5 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

If you are a player that wants to join a club and that club offers a record bid for you, that would only get you thinking about joining the club even more than before, there is no denying that.

I think there's some denying that. He's clearly interested in joining Barcelona, I'm dubious the fact that they've lodged a higher bid, which probably represents less of a financial hardship for them than the lower bid before they'd sold Neymar did, has moved the dial much. That's not to say it's impossible he'll try and force through a move but if he does I suspect he was going to anyway.

[Consigliere]

I see the Coutinho situation much like our situation with DDG. The player will leave if a deal can be done amicably. Otherwise he is willing to stay and remain professional. Just like DDG didn't throw his toys, I don't see Coutinho doing that either. I think Barca really need to have a plan B here because the Liverpool board have steadfastly refused to negotiate, summarily rejected both bids and continue to maintain the stance that Coutinho is not for sale at any price.

 

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Talk of Mbappe going to PSG, i hope it happens and he turns out to be the second coming, and Neymar ends up playing second fiddle again.

Don't see PSG getting Mbappe as well, at least not without major competition from RM and I think Mbappe would choose RM over PSG.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Just now, Consigliere said:

I see the Coutinho situation much like our situation with DDG. The player will leave if a deal can be done amicably. Otherwise he is willing to stay and remain professional. Just like DDG didn't throw his toys, I don't see Coutinho doing that either. I think Barca really need to have a plan B here because the Liverpool board have steadfastly refused to negotiate, summarily rejected both bids and continue to maintain the stance that Coutinho is not for sale at any price.

 

I agree that the two situations are very similar. However, DDG only missed out on his move to Real Madrid through an apparent 'fax machine error', because the deal was going through right at the final moments of the transfer deadline. There is still the guts of a month for Barca to try pursue Coutinho, which gives them a lot of time to make it happen. If they are serious about Coutinho, then their last bid isn't going to be their last bid. I still believe Coutinho owes Liverpool another year, at least, given he signed a 5 year deal in January.

[Consigliere]

4 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I agree that the two situations are very similar. However, DDG only missed out on his move to Real Madrid through an apparent 'fax machine error', because the deal was going through right at the final moments of the transfer deadline. There is still the guts of a month for Barca to try pursue Coutinho, which gives them a lot of time to make it happen. If they are serious about Coutinho, then their last bid isn't going to be their last bid. I still believe Coutinho owes Liverpool another year, at least, given he signed a 5 year deal in January.

Ed Woodward is a genius.

While we cannot say that there is zero possibility of this move happening, it does look highly unlikely this season. What Barca need to do is try and wrap up a deal for Dembele asap (reports suggesting that they are close to a €130m agreement with Dortmund) as well as look to bring in Seri (more realistic than Coutinho). If they manage that then it becomes a bit less important to bring in Coutinho this season.

[Jordan La Cabra]

17 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Ed Woodward is a genius.

While we cannot say that there is zero possibility of this move happening, it does look highly unlikely this season. What Barca need to do is try and wrap up a deal for Dembele asap (reports suggesting that they are close to a €130m agreement with Dortmund) as well as look to bring in Seri (more realistic than Coutinho). If they manage that then it becomes a bit less important to bring in Coutinho this season.

Are they definitely in for Seri? I haven't seen many reports linking them to him.