Football: Silly season

[Jordan La Cabra]

13 league goals last season is a relatively poor return for a forward, too.

Do you all think that he will be used in the same position for PSG as he was for Barca - left side of a front 3?

[Consigliere]

26 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

13 league goals last season is a relatively poor return for a forward, too.

Tbf, Neymar does have a pretty good goal scoring record and provides alot of assist as well - although it certainly helps his assist stats when you have world class finishers like Messi and Suarez on the end of things. He has a great goal scoring record for Brazil as well. It's because of Messi and Suarez that I don't think Barca will miss Neymar's goals. If they get someone in who can score  around 15 goals in all comps and provide a similar amount of assists then they should be fine. What Barca really need is to sort out their midfield - someone who can play the Xavi role and a future replacement for Iniesta.

 

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Do you all think that he will be used in the same position for PSG as he was for Barca - left side of a front 3?

Emery has mostly used a 4-3-3 but on occasion employed a 4-2-3-1 last season. Neymar definitely plays as a left forward in a 4-3-3. In a 4-2-3-1, I think he would be used as a #10 rather than LM.

[Jordan La Cabra]

16 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Tbf, Neymar does have a pretty good goal scoring record and provides alot of assist as well - although it certainly helps his assist stats when you have world class finishers like Messi and Suarez on the end of things. He has a great goal scoring record for Brazil as well. It's because of Messi and Suarez that I don't think Barca will miss Neymar's goals. If they get someone in who can score  around 15 goals in all comps and provide a similar amount of assists then they should be fine. What Barca really need is to sort out their midfield - someone who can play the Xavi role and a future replacement for Iniesta.

 

Emery has mostly used a 4-3-3 but on occasion employed a 4-2-3-1 last season. Neymar definitely plays as a left forward in a 4-3-3. In a 4-2-3-1, I think he would be used as a #10 rather than LM.

What I found quite amazing when I realised it was despite how brilliant a trio MSN were, and definitely a better trio than BBC in terms of team play, in the four years Neymar was at Barca, Real won 3 champions league titles. In the theee Suarez has been there, Real has won 2.

I know Barca won 2 leagues to Real's 1. But at the level of those two clubs, they judge true successful periods upon how many CL titles they win.

Makes you wonder how successful the MSN era was.

[Mark Antony]

3 hours ago, Mmerek Hamšzulíe said:

Didn't see it. I'm quite ill-informed on all things not Liverpool, so I could very well be talking out of my arse. Just speaking anecdotally based on however many games I've seen him in (not that many).

It will be interesting to see how we look versus Bilbao today.. 

Man you missed the best European game since Liverpool/Dortmunds 2nd leg  that Barca comeback was insane. 

One half down vs Bilbao and we don't look good at all. Lovren and Mignolet look shaky as usual. Bobby has been our best player by far. 

Inaki Williams looks like a stud

[Jordan La Cabra]

10 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

 

One half down vs Bilbao and we don't look good at all. Lovren and Mignolet look shaky as usual. Bobby has been our best player by far. 

Inaki Williams looks like a stud

What will become of Milner this season? Will he go back to being a midfielder? If so, would you have him ahead of Gini or Can?

[Mark Antony]

I think he will start off as starting LB again but will be on a much thinner line than last  year with the signing of Robertson and also with how good Moreno has looked in preseason. 

If he were to be moved into the midfield then no I don't think he'd be ahead of Wijnaldum or Can. He'd be alongside Grujic in the pecking order. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

3 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

I think he will start off as starting LB again but will be on a much thinner line than last  year with the signing of Robertson and also with how good Moreno has looked in preseason. 

If he were to be moved into the midfield then no I don't think he'd be ahead of Wijnaldum or Can. He'd be alongside Grujic in the pecking order. 

Think Moreno will have a second chance under Klopp?

Liverpool have had a surprisingly good preseason but I think the same old problems will come to the fore if they don't fix the centre back situation. 

The type of goals they conceded and second ball set pieces aren't going to come up in preseason against foreign sides.

[Mark Antony]

15 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Think Moreno will have a second chance under Klopp?.

Maybe? Not sure but I wasn't very impressed with Milner at LB during the second half of last season.

I think it will be more interesting to see if Sakho gets another chance if we don't buy a CB and he doesn't get sold. 

Been pretty good 2nd half for the youngsters. Solanke has been much better than Origi this preseason. 

[Mexal]

I watched Spurs/Juventus this morning. Have to say, Spurs look good, especially on the break. Think they'll be really tough this season if they avoid injuries. Their squad does feel a little light to compete in all competitions.

[Jordan La Cabra]

7 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I watched Spurs/Juventus this morning. Have to say, Spurs look good, especially on the break. Think they'll be really tough this season if they avoid injuries. Their squad does feel a little light to compete in all competitions.

That's their problem, the strength and depth in their squad.

Probably part of the reason they have struggled to sign players. They have such a strong 11, it would be difficult to entice people to come to knowing they will likely end up on the bench.

But they lacked real options to bring off the bench last season, especially in the FA cup semi against Chelsea. Chelsea were able to start without Hazard and Costa and bring them on later in the game, but Spurs had no one on the bench to change the game.

[Mme Erzulie]

2 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Man you missed the best European game since Liverpool/Dortmunds 2nd leg  that Barca comeback was insane. 

One half down vs Bilbao and we don't look good at all. Lovren and Mignolet look shaky as usual. Bobby has been our best player by far. 

Inaki Williams looks like a stud

Heh, I remember seeing the highlights. Just struck me more as a PSG collapse (but I didn't see the whole game).

Yeah, I much preferred the players who were playing in the 2nd half (Matip, Salah and Firmino excepted). That Woodburn goal was wonderful and Solanke looks so impressive (much more so than Origi, who continues to underwhelm (he also looks to me like he doesn't really care - might be a case of appearances deceiving)). 

 

2 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

What will become of Milner this season? Will he go back to being a midfielder? If so, would you have him ahead of Gini or Can?

My preferred solution for Milner would be as captain of the 2nd stringers, for cup games and whatnot. I think he does a capable job both as LB or CM, but I don't think he should be first choice for either (although I get that that depends on Moreno improving defensively for LB). ETA: I forgot about Robertson. He looks like a slightly worse Moreno so far. Not passing a verdict until Klopp's had a chance to work with him, but have not been particularly impressed with what I've seen thus far. Also, his penalty prowess is quite an asset. But as a pure midfielder, he ranks behind Gini and Can for me.

 

1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Think Moreno will have a second chance under Klopp?

Liverpool have had a surprisingly good preseason but I think the same old problems will come to the fore if they don't fix the centre back situation. 

The type of goals they conceded and second ball set pieces aren't going to come up in preseason against foreign sides.

I hope so. I like Moreno, but he needs to sort out his defensive positioning, and if it hasn't happened yet, will it ever? 

Agree that we need VVD. Gomez looks promising, but has also made numerous errors while playing at CB (particularly giveaways). Lovren, while improved, keeps making crucial mistakes. Matip's passing has been slightly off in pre-season as well, hope that's just a bit of rust. 

ETA: Also, Flanagan is the worst player getting regular first team action by quite a distance. His passing is awful, he over-commits to challenges and must be in the squad solely on the merit of being a Scouser.

[Iskaral Pust]

Liverpool's pre-season hasn't revealed anything particularly new, except the youth players might be closer now to being capable back-ups, but it seems like that happens every summer without being fulfilled. 

Flanagan is not a PL-level player.  It's a pity for him but he needs to drop a league to find his level. 

Solanke looks better than Origi, who still fluffs good chances and concedes possession in dangerous ways.   Ings has yet to make any impact at all.  Solanke looks a good all-round striker to lead the line, press high, run channels and score from crosses.

Ejaria, Kent, Woodburn, Alexander-Arnold (TAA hereafter) and Solanke all look promising and should have a positive impact on the squad, but I've said that before and saw Ibe, Smith and Ojo (loan) leave without ever looking sustainably  comfortable in the first team despite having great games at times. 

All of our CBs are making sloppy errors: sloppy passing, going to ground unnecessarily, getting caught out of position.  This needs big improvements by the individuals.  Sakho still seems firmly on the outs despite playing so well for Palace on loan.

Coutinho, Lallana, Henderson and Sturridge are relatively fragile players who will miss games from knocks and strains, unlike Firmino, Milner, Can, Clyne and Gini who seem less likely to miss games in general.  (I know Clyne is out at the moment with a strain but it's rare for him).

Mignolet carried over his good form from late last year but still doesn't have the distribution of Karius.  Ward looks decent too as GK but I think Mignolet retains the gloves for now. 

Our midfield looks choppy.  First-choice midfield now is probably Henderson, Coutinho and Lallana, even though that seems very lightweight and over-attacking.  But Can, Gini and perhaps Milner add more physicality and will probably see a lot of game time.  I like Grujic's skill and shooting but he needs lessons from Lallana on pressing and workrate. 

A few positives: Firmino looks really sharp and confident, Salah and Sane provide excellent movement ahead of Coutinho, Moreno has been surprisingly improved (can it last?).  

Buggest problem: squad looks thin and prone to absences from key players.  We haven't added an upgrade in CB or DM, or added depth to CM (the CM/DM is either-or but we've done neither). 

[The Winged Shadow]

13 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

I think he will start off as starting LB again but will be on a much thinner line than last  year with the signing of Robertson and also with how good Moreno has looked in preseason. 

If he were to be moved into the midfield then no I don't think he'd be ahead of Wijnaldum or Can. He'd be alongside Grujic in the pecking order. 

Man, that's a really harsh view of Milner ! Grujic has been decent this preseason, but he has also been pretty awful at times. He is fairly average at team pressing (poor anticipation), always a step behind clever/fast players (gets turned and loses track of players) which result in him making some awful challenges.There was two red cards for him were these normal matches. I expect Milner to be a much better option in the midfield once he starts training there again (which i expect will start happening now with Lallana out for a couple of months and a resurgent Moreno at LB and no Keita). Milner also has better passing range, which will be helpful in the midfield.

Considering there will likely be a game every 3-4 days, Can and Henderson will likely be rotated in the CDM role and Milner will likely be one of the LM/RM, rotating with Lallana, Coutinho, Gini (and maybe the kids). Klopp will probably try not to play both his main CDM candidates at the same time if he can help it (unless as 70min sub or whatever) considering the lack of backup in that position (no good youngins there either!)

11 hours ago, Mmerek Hamšzulíe said:

Agree that we need VVD. Gomez looks promising, but has also made numerous errors while playing at CB (particularly giveaways). Lovren, while improved, keeps making crucial mistakes. Matip's passing has been slightly off in pre-season as well, hope that's just a bit of rust. 

ETA: Also, Flanagan is the worst player getting regular first team action by quite a distance. His passing is awful, he over-commits to challenges and must be in the squad solely on the merit of being a Scouser.

Agree about Flanno and Gomez. Gomez looks really solid in defensive duties with pace and strength and reading the game. But made some horror passes. Always trying to thread the midfield instead of choosing the safer option. Definitely needs to tone down the riskiness!

Flanno is definitely lower in the order, behind Clyne, TAA, Moreno, Robertson and even Gomez at fullback. He is not too bad defensively, but he is very far behind all the other fullbacks in attacking quality.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

I agree with everyone here about Origi.He has to really improve his finishing.I'd choose Solanke over Origi as he looks like one of those players who gets into the right positions , looks more composed and finishes/scores as well,which is important as a striker.

[ljkeane]

Solanke has looked half decent. I will say the one time he didn't look too good was against Athletico Madrid when they sat back and defended deep, he didn't find much space and the ball didn't stick as much as you'd like when it came to him. It's not the end of the world as they're a good defensive team but you'd think what we're looking for from him is to offer something against teams defending deep.

[Mme Erzulie]

Agreed, LJ. Although he definitely adds an aerial threat that we're missing (much more than we should be, considering Origi's size), which can come in handy against deep defences. Excited to see how he performs this season and if he can hang with the fluid one-touch interplay that Klopp clearly wants to see.

[Mark Antony]

Community shield time. Glad to have it back. 

5 hours ago, The Winged Shadow said:

Man, that's a really harsh view of Milner .

Fair enough. But he hasn't played midfield in well over a year and I couldn't see him getting into any of the other top 6 teams in that position tbh. But you're right he's ahead of Grujic not alongside him especially after hearing Klopp basically call him a new signing yesterday

[Mexal]

I've missed football.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

20 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

I think it will be more interesting to see if Sakho gets another chance if we don't buy a CB and he doesn't get sold. 

I wondered the same a few posts ago. I don't think Klopp will back down, unless Sakho delivers a few apologies. Klopp knows the value of team spirit/locker room atmosphere/whatever you want to call it. And apparently he has singled out Sakho as a disruptive influence. Add to that, that Sakho is (at least imho) more of a fan favorite than a player who puts in a solid performance week in and week out, and it all points more towards Sakho being out of the door. Besides, I did not really follow EPL pre-season matches. So did Sakho play any matches? I think that's probably the best indicator whether Sakho gets another chance, or not.

[Mark Antony]

Oh my Courtois pen had me in stitches  

1 minute ago, Notone said:

So did Sakho play any matches? I think that's probably the best indicator whether Sakho gets another chance, or not.

No he didn't so yeah you're probably right and he wont be getting a chance. But it will be frustrating when Lovrens out with a stubbed toe and we have Klavan starting games.