coolsaladgirl93

Lady Stoneheart motives?

15 posts in this topic

So we all know Lady Stoneheart hates Freys (understandably so) but I'm curious as to if she has any motivation for killing Freys beyond that of Vengeance 

We know that the reason Walder Frey gave Roslin to Edmure even though she was attractive  and not some hideous daughter is because the Tullys were about to be dispossessed of Riverrun and Roslin is very far back in the line of succession for the Twins and she's a girl so it's very unlikely for her to even inherit the Twins. I'm wondering if that is why Cat is killing Freys that are further up the line of succession. To get Edmure in possession of the Twins. But of course we don't know what Lady Stoneheart's ambitions are beyond murdering Freys because we aren't in her head. I am of the opinion that she isn't Cat anymore not truly, but I think there is more to her than just murder. I am curious if you guys think I'm onto something here or just some crackpot bs? Also if this is explicitly stated somewhere in Feast or Dance and I missed it sorry lole I am currently going through my first reread in a year and I only just got to ASOS when this idea hit me.

Anyways general discussion of Lady Stoneheart and her motives within the Brotherhood Without Banners is welcome!! 

 

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Well I would say the only good Frey is a dead Frey but I like the old guy and a couple of the females. I do believe she is mainly just about revenge though what happens with Jamie will say a lot about her motives.

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I'm not sure what her true motives are or whether she has one beyond taking revenge on the Freys for their part in the Red Wedding. She has also captured Brienne and tried to kill her for what she viewed as a betrayal of her mission to return Sansa and Arya to her. Then, she used her to presumably lure Jaime in. As far as she knows, he was a co-conspirator of the Red Wedding, thanks to the name drop.

One thing I wonder, though, is what would make Lady Stoneheart stop? While she is not really "Cat" anymore, she apparently "remembers", so what would quell her? Finding Sansa and Arya again? Learning Bran and Rickon are alive? Killing all the Freys?

Edited by Faera

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22 minutes ago, Faera said:

One thing I wonder, though, is what would make Lady Stoneheart stop? While she is not really "Cat" anymore, she apparently "remembers", so what would quell her? Finding Sansa and Arya again? Learning Bran and Rickon are alive? Killing all the Freys?

I wonder this as well and I gotta admit the curiosity for where this arc will go is killing me. I am completely intrigued by this character and wonder especially why the Brotherhood all decided to  follow her  

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The only thing I am sure of: she knows Rob's will and will act according to it. She has Rob's crown and may be the one to crown his successor.

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26 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

The only thing I am sure of: she knows Rob's will and will act according to it. She has Rob's crown and may be the one to crown his successor.

However, Rob's successor as far as his will is concerned and as far as the world knows, is Jon. He is, unbeknownst to him, "Jon Stark" now having been legitimised by Robb. 

But Cat hated Jon. She was banging on about Robb naming some random boys in the Vale his heirs, adamant that Jon not be named heir.

Now, granted, Davos could turn up with Rickon or Bran and his companions could even return from beyond the Wall... but as of right now, the heir is Jon.

So, will Lady Stoneheart honour that choice by Robb? or will she need some convincing from someone like Howland Reed, who not only by now knows the contents of the will but also (for the sake of argument) could potentially reveal that Jon was Lyanna's son with Rhaegar, and Ned never betrayed her etc?

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12 minutes ago, Faera said:

However, Rob's successor as far as his will is concerned and as far as the world knows, is Jon.

? Our world ? Maybe. Westeros ? Nah.

12 minutes ago, Faera said:

So, will Lady Stoneheart honour that choice by Robb?

Nobody knows what the will says. As far as speculation goes even Cat may be somewhere in the line of succession.And if it will resolve in this way ... I bet Uncat will meet Jonny boy. And we will see how this goes.

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5 hours ago, coolsaladgirl93 said:

So we all know Lady Stoneheart hates Freys (understandably so) but I'm curious as to if she has any motivation for killing Freys beyond that of Vengeance 

We know that the reason Walder Frey gave Roslin to Edmure even though she was attractive  and not some hideous daughter is because the Tullys were about to be dispossessed of Riverrun and Roslin is very far back in the line of succession for the Twins and she's a girl so it's very unlikely for her to even inherit the Twins. I'm wondering if that is why Cat is killing Freys that are further up the line of succession. To get Edmure in possession of the Twins. But of course we don't know what Lady Stoneheart's ambitions are beyond murdering Freys because we aren't in her head. I am of the opinion that she isn't Cat anymore not truly, but I think there is more to her than just murder. I am curious if you guys think I'm onto something here or just some crackpot bs? Also if this is explicitly stated somewhere in Feast or Dance and I missed it sorry lole I am currently going through my first reread in a year and I only just got to ASOS when this idea hit me.

Anyways general discussion of Lady Stoneheart and her motives within the Brotherhood Without Banners is welcome!! 

 

Given that the BWB have infiltrated Riverrun, I think she is motivated by a desire to reinstate her brother, as well as revenge on the Freys.

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No way the remaining Freys let Edmure be lord through Roslin. If he is ever in the position of military strength to take the Twins he will do so as the Lord of Riverrun punishing rebellious bannermen.

LS is actively searching for her daughters as well as killing off Freys. Whether to crown Arya or Sansa Queen of the North is uncertain,  but it is a strong possibility. Especially as Arya is not mentioned by Robb as unsuitable in the summing up of his final decision over who is his heir, and the reason Sansa was included is no longer the case. 

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5 hours ago, SirArthur said:

Our world ? Maybe. Westeros ? Nah.

5 hours ago, Faera said:

I phrased that wrong. What I meant was that the last thing Robb did was have his lords sign off his will. Needless to say, if Rickon has since died and they can't find Bran, they might well try and retrieve Jon from the Wall, as Robb wanted.

 

5 hours ago, SirArthur said:

Nobody knows what the will says. As far as speculation goes even Cat may be somewhere in the line of succession.And if it will resolve in this way ... I bet Uncat will meet Jonny boy. And we will see how this goes.

Well, she and Jon will have something in common by the time they meet again - if they meet again - seeing as they are both essentially reanimated corpses.

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5 hours ago, SirArthur said:

Nobody knows what the will says. As far as speculation goes even Cat may be somewhere in the line of succession.And if it will resolve in this way ... I bet Uncat will meet Jonny boy. And we will see how this goes.

7 hours ago, Faera said:

I'm not sure what her true motives are or whether she has one beyond taking revenge on the Freys for their part in the Red Wedding. She has also captured Brienne and tried to kill her for what she viewed as a betrayal of her mission to return Sansa and Arya to her. Then, she used her to presumably lure Jaime in. As far as she knows, he was a co-conspirator of the Red Wedding, thanks to the name drop.

One thing I wonder, though, is what would make Lady Stoneheart stop? While she is not really "Cat" anymore, she apparently "remembers", so what would quell her? Finding Sansa and Arya again? Learning Bran and Rickon are alive? Killing all the Freys?

I'm very much looking forward to a meeting of Stoneheart and Jon if that's in the cards- I don't think that would end well, but it's possible that if Jon has Sansa/Arya/Bran/Rickon with him Stoneheart would not immediately try to kill him.

I think as far as Stoneheart's true motives go, she is essentially a vengeance monster so that's her #1 motive- to kill Freys and Lannisters who she views as responsible for the Red Wedding.  I don't think that's her only motive though.  As mentioned above, she has clearly infiltrated Riverrun and probably has designs on re-installing Starks and Tullys wherever she can.  

I'm not sure there is any stopping Stoneheart until all the Freys are dead, at which time maybe she kills herself for good?  

21 minutes ago, Faera said:

I phrased that wrong. What I meant was that the last thing Robb did was have his lords sign off his will. Needless to say, if Rickon has since died and they can't find Bran, they might well try and retrieve Jon from the Wall, as Robb wanted.

IIRC, the Tully man-at-arms and maybe a few other Tully soldiers from Riverrun elected to go to the Wall when Riverrun was taken by Jaime.  You also have Blackfish maybe overacting and putting on a show for Jaime when Jon's name is mentioned about how he doesn't like Jon because Cat hated him.  Perhaps that's just Blackfish being truthful, but perhaps also it's a show to deflect any attention from Jon.

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9 hours ago, Faera said:

However, Rob's successor as far as his will is concerned and as far as the world knows, is Jon. He is, unbeknownst to him, "Jon Stark" now having been legitimised by Robb. 

But Cat hated Jon. She was banging on about Robb naming some random boys in the Vale his heirs, adamant that Jon not be named heir.

Now, granted, Davos could turn up with Rickon or Bran and his companions could even return from beyond the Wall... but as of right now, the heir is Jon.

So, will Lady Stoneheart honour that choice by Robb? or will she need some convincing from someone like Howland Reed, who not only by now knows the contents of the will but also (for the sake of argument) could potentially reveal that Jon was Lyanna's son with Rhaegar, and Ned never betrayed her etc?

To me Jon is what her arc is most likely about. The conflict within her between following Robb's last wish and her hatred of Jon Snow. GRRM is all about conflict of the human heart

Quote

"I've always agreed with William Faulkner—he said that the human heart in conflict with itself is the only thing worth writing about. I've always taken that as my guiding principle, and the rest is just set dressing." - George RR Martin.

It also comes in handy that she can resurrect the dead and Jon happens to dead. Knowing Arya is still possibly alive just makes it harder and more interesting for her. She will pass her test give up her own "life" to bring Jon back leaving him Robb's crown.

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I think Lady Stoneheart is all about vengeance, hence her name.  I don't think much of Catelyn is left.  Hence why she's livid with Brienne and unwilling to even listen to her; she knows the oath Brienne swore, when Cat herself sent her out, why not listen now.  And it fits thematically - she's the literal representation of the anger and desire for vengeance that Lannister brutality has inspired in Westeros - it's so strong that it transcends the grave.

It also sort of fits from what little we know about the process of raising the dead.  Beric Dondarrion was slowly losing memories of his life; it might be that only strong emotions or moments are passed through (and remember, Cat was dead much longer than Beric).  So she comes back, a vengeful and scarred revenant, who's  death was so traumatic and visceral that literally the only memory she has is that betrayal, and the only emotion vengeance.

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If LSH has any memories of Cat, she knows that Jaime was the one who tossed Bran since Jaime confessed it. She would also know that Roose skewered Robb. Depending on what Brienne may or may not have said while in captivity LSH may know that Bolton's Arya is not Arya.

 

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