James Arryn Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 30 minutes ago, aceluby said: So it looks like Trump wants to break a long standing treaty with Russia to build a new nuclear weapon. This fucking guy. He is completely unstable and should be nowhere near these decisions. I’ve been mentioning this for what seems like years, going back to well before the election: in that old Playboy interview he openly criticized US government for ‘wasting’ it’s nuclear arsenal and spoke nostalgically about the Cold War/brinkmanship era. Just think about that. I’ve been terrified of him taking office since he read that a couple years ago; the real world, real people, real consequences aren’t important to him. He lives a life removed from any of that, one extended ego-nap. He’s exactly the kind of guy who can kill millions of people and think everyone else is to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 hours ago, Maithanet said: I think this is giving Dubya far too much credit. The political climate was such that Bush was about as conservative as you could possibly be in 2000-2008. He passed a regressive tax cut, invaded Iraq for no reason and let an American city drown. And in order to bash down Democratic opposition to those things, the GOP laid the groundwork for Trump 8 years later. Bush isn't the only father of Trumpism, but he's on the list. Both Dubya and Trump went through their lives being morons, that, in my view, is the biggest thing they have in common. And the other thing they have in common is that they both came into this world, where being a life long moron was an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 27 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I said Romney is "a step in the right direction for the country" because he is an improvement over Hatch. The Senate would be better if there were more Mitt Romney's and fewer Orrin Hatches. Yes, this is grading on a curve, all Republican Senators support loathsome policies and Romney will be no exception. As for whether Romney will be "a reliable anti-Trump Republican", I guess we'll wait and see, but to me, Romney is the most prominent anti-Trump Republican. Most Americans have never heard of Jeff Flake or BIll Kristol, and the Bush family criticisms have always been rather understated. In contrast, here's some anti-Trump statements that Romney has made: - "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud" - "His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He's playing members of the American public for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House, and all we get is a lousy hat" - “But you say, ‘Wait, wait, wait, isn’t he a huge business success? Doesn’t he know what he’s talking about?’ No, he isn’t. And no, he doesn’t.” Words are wind. Lots of Republicans attack Trump in terms like this. And they say a picture speaks a thousand words: http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161129212927-trump-romney-super-169.jpg Let me know when Romney actually does something to stand up to Trump. I won't be holding my breath. Romney's no moderate Republican, if such a thing even exists. Stop looking around in hope for the Republican politician who is really going to stand up to Trump, this time, no kidding, we mean it. We can praise such a phenomenon if and when it ever shows up for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 hours ago, mormont said: Words are wind. Lots of Republicans attack Trump in terms like this. And they say a picture speaks a thousand words: http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161129212927-trump-romney-super-169.jpg Let me know when Romney actually does something to stand up to Trump. I won't be holding my breath. Romney's no moderate Republican, if such a thing even exists. Stop looking around in hope for the Republican politician who is really going to stand up to Trump, this time, no kidding, we mean it. We can praise such a phenomenon if and when it ever shows up for real. Yes, when this flamin' disaster of a mess ends, the number of Republicans that will have any credibility left, will be fewer than the fingers on your hands, and that is probably wildly optimistic. More on this: http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/many-gop-skeptics-discover-they-donald-trump-after-all Quote Nevada Sen. Dean Heller (R) is in a rather unique position: he’s the only Republican senator up for re-election this year in a state Donald Trump lost. He also has a track record of deep skepticism towards his party’s president, declaring in mid-2016, “Today, I’m opposed to his campaign…. I’ll give him a chance, but at this point, I have no intentions of voting for him.” That was then; this is now. The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported the other day that Heller has had a change of heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mexal said: Just for completion sake. Bannon probably knows nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Trump / Bannon feud is interesting. A couple of delusional men going at it, can't wait. I actually think Bannon may be more delusional than Donald. There's no doubt he has influence over a certain segment of the population via Brietbart and helped to get Trump where he is, but if the goal was to elevate Trump in order to elevate his alt-right platform I don't think he's been all that successful. Trump's rhetoric and tweeting are obviously bonkers, but policy-wise I don't think he's really done a single thing that a standard Republican wouldn't do. Looks more and more to me like Trump used Bannon just like he uses all media - free publicity. Bannon was obviously not successful at pulling the strings behind the curtain in the White House, but if he thinks he can squash Trump where the rest of the media has failed, I think he's wrong. He may have helped create the monster, but if it comes down to a loyalty test between Trump and Bannon for the Trumpkins, no reason to believe the orange one won't be able to shrug off Bannon like anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 hours ago, S John said: Trump / Bannon feud is interesting. A couple of delusional men going at it, can't wait. I actually think Bannon may be more delusional than Donald. There's no doubt he has influence over a certain segment of the population via Brietbart and helped to get Trump where he is, but if the goal was to elevate Trump in order to elevate his alt-right platform I don't think he's been all that successful. Trump's rhetoric and tweeting are obviously bonkers, but policy-wise I don't think he's really done a single thing that a standard Republican wouldn't do. Looks more and more to me like Trump used Bannon just like he uses all media - free publicity. Bannon was obviously not successful at pulling the strings behind the curtain in the White House, but if he thinks he can squash Trump where the rest of the media has failed, I think he's wrong. He may have helped create the monster, but if it comes down to a loyalty test between Trump and Bannon for the Trumpkins, no reason to believe the orange one won't be able to shrug off Bannon like anyone else. Like many of the people that voted for Trump expecting him to do stuff, Bannon should have realized that Trump is extremely intellectually lazy, because he’s been able to skate through life basically by being a privileged bullshit artist, and doesn’t grasp or care really about the details of policy making, and the main result would be that Trump would end up relying on the usual Republican policy making establishment. Or maybe Bannon did realize that and overestimated his own ability to manipulate the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Gertrude said: Yeah. We do some things very well and there are things to be proud of, but there are so many ways we could do much better, and yes, some ways we are outright horrible. I want us to do better, but first that means admitting mistakes and bad practices. I hate the term ‘ American Exceptionalism’. In my experience it is used to excuse our faults and indicates an unwillingness to look toward other countries to see if they might have better ways of doing things because ‘Murika, fuck yeah!’ Your mileage may vary on that. Obama tried to do this and was absolutely blasted for it in the right-wing media. Even to this day I see people claiming that Obama literally "hated" America and sincerely believe it, and its because he tried to reconcile things in our recent and distant past with his vision of the future and the potential of the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: I never thought I’d say this, but I really miss Dubya. I feel like I’ve said that 20 times in the last year. We’re so f****d… Nah. Between Iraq and the Great Recession Trump still has a lot to prove to live up to the true disasters Dubya presided over - although I suppose he's already checked Katrina off the list in Puerto Rico. Don't get me wrong though, he's certainly up to the challenge. We're just not there...yet. 21 minutes ago, mormont said: Let me know when Romney actually does something to stand up to Trump. I won't be holding my breath. Romney's no moderate Republican, if such a thing even exists. Stop looking around in hope for the Republican politician who is really going to stand up to Trump, this time, no kidding, we mean it. We can praise such a phenomenon if and when it ever shows up for real. If such a thing exists as a moderate Republican, Romney is such. Ideologically I think it's hard to argue he wouldn't be in the Murkowski/Corker/McCain area that hovers in the 80s along with the crazy Paul and Mike Lee wing (I'll give ya that Collins is more - and the only legitimate - moderate than Romney or the MCM crew above). Now, doesn't really mean much in terms of "standing up" to Trump on major legislation. Romney certainly would've voted for the tax bill. And he'd certainly be for any entitlement cuts if the GOP leadership manages to get that to floor. I guess I could see him joining the Murkowski/Collins contingent if they try to kill Obamacare again. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: Like many of the people that voted for Trump expecting him to do stuff, Bannon should have realized that Trump is extremely intellectually lazy, because he’s been able to skate through life basically by being a privileged bullshit artist, and doesn’t grasp or care really about the details of policy making, and the main result would be that Trump would end up relying on the usual Republican policy making establishment. Or maybe Bannon did realize that and overestimated his own ability to manipulate the situation. This is what I think happened. I think Bannon saw in Trump an opportunity to remake the Republican establishment into an actual alt-right party instead of a party that simply tolerates them. Trump was (is) a novice and Bannon was close to him, he tried to seize the moment and push a right-wing revolution of sorts. While Trump did win in a stunner, I think Bannon misread the overall mood of the country. Being upset with the status quo and wanting to 'shake things up' does not necessarily mean that this country is ready to embrace the right wing fringe on a truly national scale. It's not, and demographics are not in favor of that happening either. The pendulum will swing back and I think Bannon missed his moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 hours ago, S John said: Obama tried to do this and was absolutely blasted for it in the right-wing media. Even to this day I see people claiming that Obama literally "hated" America and sincerely believe it, and its because he tried to reconcile things in our recent and distant past with his vision of the future and the potential of the US. This is the part when you remind conservatives and Republicans that the last refuge of a scoundrel is patriotism, to paraphrase Samuel Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 @OldGimletEye, @Maithanet, @dmc515, Can’t one recognize that Dubya was truly awful while simultaneously recognizing that Trump is significantly worse? I mean, in the last two days he has inflamed three of the most complicated situations in the world, one of which he did so while also bragging about the size of his “button.” He hasn’t started a pair of major wars yet, but he’s well on his way to outdoing Dubya in the category of “Worst President In My Lifetime.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, S John said: This is what I think happened. I think Bannon saw in Trump an opportunity to remake the Republican establishment into an actual alt-right party instead of a party that simply tolerates them. Trump was (is) a novice and Bannon was close to him, he tried to seize the moment and push a right-wing revolution of sorts. While Trump did win in a stunner, I think Bannon misread the overall mood of the country. Being upset with the status quo and wanting to 'shake things up' does not necessarily mean that this country is ready to embrace the right wing fringe on a truly national scale. It's not, and demographics are not in favor of that happening either. The pendulum will swing back and I think Bannon missed his moment. I think this is spot on. Bannon, IMO, thought he could manipulate Trump and start a major media company after his loss to expand his own digital footprint. I don’t think he actually expected or wanted Trump to win. It’s important to remember that people around Trump have always said that the last person to speak to him is the person who has the greatest influence over him. Bannon was always the last person to speak to Trump until Kelly fazed him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: @OldGimletEye, @Maithanet, @dmc515, Can’t one recognize that Dubya was truly awful while simultaneously recognizing that Trump is significantly worse? I mean, in the last two days he has inflamed three of the most complicated situations in the world, one of which he did so while also bragging about the size of his “button.” He hasn’t started a pair of major wars yet, but he’s well on his way to outdoing Dubya in the category of “Worst President In My Lifetime.” I think it's fine to say that Trump is worse than Dubya, so long as no impression is left that Dubya wasn't that bad, or we get into this thing where we look sentimentally at the sky, with misty eyes and whisper "Dubya", because his presidency was a train wreck. I mean I can say the sinking of the Titanic was worse than the Hindenburg, and maybe that's true, but let's not leave any impression that the Hindenburg was not an utter disaster. And I think we should be rather amazed that we've managed to elect the Hindenburg and the Titanic to the presidency in less than a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Nasty LongRider said: Yawn. My living memory includes the anti-war efforts of the '60's, the Civil Rights efforts, I remember when Dr. King was shot. The Women's Liberation movement. Important? Yes all of them were. Anti-war protesters were the bane of LBJ's presidency "Hey! Hey! LBJ how many kids did you kill today?" Engagement of young people, I'm all for it. The back lash against all of these movements have proved longer lived and is still active today. Now they are better financed and have much more control over who votes in this country. Certainly good things happen, Doug Jones would not have won his senate seat w/o the suppressed voters coming out and doing what needed to be done to vote. Your force better get to fucking work because right now it seems to be mostly in your head. Hey, if the offense I'm offering is being too optimistic I'll accept whatever sentence you deem fit for such a transgression. I'll just point out that the Women's march was composed of literally millions of Americans who recognize that there are powers attempting to steal their inheritance and want to do something about it. I'm offering my best contributions as well, one of which I hope is boosting a little confidence in this thread. We've already won, you were born into victory. All that's left is to never let demagogues and thieves threaten our Republic again. I don't know about you, but that's a fight I'm happy to bleed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 And the President responds to Bannon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 49 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: I think it's fine to say that Trump is worse than Dubya, so long as no impression is left that Dubya wasn't that bad, or we get into this thing where we look sentimentally at the sky, with misty eyes and whisper "Dubya", because his presidency was a train wreck. I mean I can say the sinking of the Titanic was worse than the Hindenburg, and maybe that's true, but let's not leave any impression that the Hindenburg was not an utter disaster. And I think we should be rather amazed that we've managed to elect the Hindenburg and the Titanic to the presidency in less than a generation. Let's get you metaphor straight. Shrub Jr. has got to be the Titanic. Trump is the Hindenburg. The Titanic going down did not doom trans Atlantic ships, but the Hindenburg doomed airships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 hours ago, maarsen said: Let's get you metaphor straight. Shrub Jr. has got to be the Titanic. Trump is the Hindenburg. The Titanic going down did not doom trans Atlantic ships, but the Hindenburg doomed airships. LOL. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mexal said: And the President responds to Bannon... "The most talented field ever assembled by the Republican Party" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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