U.S. Politics. Next?

[Sivin]

1 minute ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Well, there is the possibility of Nuclear Winter, which wouldn't be like any winter ever experienced.  A severe lack of sunlight and a severe overabundance of smoke would be terribly devastating.  This does not sound like basic life would go on normally.

http://www.nucleardarkness.org/warconsequences/hundredfiftytonessmoke/

Well sure, you can take a bunch of sad scientists' word for it or you could believe me! 

A worst-case scenario does not bear consideration, as either its results will be cataclysmic to the point of rendering all preparations moot or life will go on in some recognizable fashion. 

Since the version of life in The Road is useless to worry about, it is far more productive to consider how a realistic nuclear event would occur and how the world would manage the fallout. 

Call me optimistic, but the cold truth is that hundreds of millions of fatalities (or even billions) would not threaten the long term existence of life on this planet. 

It is not realistic to assume that a last insult nuclear option of a dying regime will end the world. Even if NK delivered a payload on Washington, Seoul, and Bejing at the same time, the worst result would be the rendering of the penninsula uninhabitable and massive civil engineering efforts from the Chinese and Japanese that would ultimately be in the best interest of humanity. 

Even when considered to extremes like the one above, there's only so much damage that can be done by human hands before someone stops or is fucking dead. 

If Russia and America are driving one nuke to every populated town on earth (they don't have enough) and detonating them all at the same time, I'll worry about the viability of life on this planet after a nuclear engagement. 

Just now, Mexal said:

 

Yeah, I noticed that on CNN they mentioned the Kim quote about the button and after everyone spent a minute laughing at Trump taking credit for no airline fatalities Kate Bouldan immediately brought the show to a halt to address the tweet. 

I thought it curious to say the least.

[Mexal]

Fusion GPS fights back.

 

[kuenjato]

What's with all the gloom n doom? Unless Trump was saber-rattlin' with China or Russia, it's *just* North Korea. No one is going to initiate nuclear warfare to protect NK, or retribution.

Of course, the millions and millions of lives at stake in Japan/S. Korea are something to consider. My blood pressure spikes every time Trump wags his dick about this, as I have family in SK. To say nothing about how the economic repercussions would be massive and immediate.

[Sivin]

4 minutes ago, kuenjato said:

What's with all the gloom n doom? Unless Trump was saber-rattlin' with China or Russia, it's *just* North Korea. No one is going to initiate nuclear warfare to protect NK, or retribution.

Of course, the millions and millions of lives at stake in Japan/S. Korea are something to consider. My blood pressure spikes every time Trump wags his dick about this, as I have family in SK. To say nothing about how the economic repercussions would be massive and immediate.

This is what I'm saying. 

[TrueMetis]

I don't know, I imagine China might retaliate if their front lawn gets nuked.

[Dr. Pepper]

Even if no one defends NK, we're still talking about nuclear devastation to millions of people. Tens of millions of lives lost immediately, many more lost over the next few months, millions more living with the after effects of a nuclear blast.  Not to mention their descendants in turn experiencing a wealth of health problems. Nuclear warheads are one of the worst things humans have invented and their power ends up in the hands of people like Trump and Kim.  I trust that Kim has more self control in this matter than Trump, but if the nukes start flying, both of them would probably rather commit national suicide than let the other one win.  

[LongRider]

2 hours ago, WinterFox said:

Well sure, you can take a bunch of sad scientists' word for it or you could believe me! 

I could believe you, but I don't.

[Paladin of Ice]

2 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

We'll meet again
Don't know where
Don't know when
But I know we'll meet again some sunny day
Keep smiling through
Just like you always do
'Till the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away.........

The song I'm hearing these days sounds a little different. To wit:

 

[SpaceChampion]

I wonder how many evangelicals are praying for nuclear rapture right now and get an orgasm every time 45 tweets about pressing the button?

[OldGimletEye]

23 hours ago, Paladin of Ice said:

The song I'm hearing these days sounds a little different. To wit:

 

LOL. 

Just in case somebody doesn't know where I got that verse:

 

[Kalbear]

While nuclear explosions wouldn't likely signal the end of the world, it would almost assuredly cause a massive global economic collapse that would make the Great Recession look very tame by comparison, which would in turn trigger a whole lot of other wars. 

So we have the scenario where somewhere in the US gets nuked, somewhere big. This disrupts everything. Snowstorms already can delay Christmas by a day, and that's just slightly bad temporal weather events. A city essentially dropping off the map is a supply chain nightmare. But even that is recoverable reasonably quickly depending on the city; if Seattle got nuked, for instance, about 1/3rd of the internet dies, but mostly things move on. 

If South Korea or Japan gets nuked, however, things get far worse. Both Korea and Japan are massive hubs of trade and goods and services that we take for granted as 'things that just work'. They're more centralized, more concentrated, and far more vulnerable to attack. Whole industries basically disappear depending on what gets destroyed. Massive dependencies on things like specialized computer parts, manufacturing systems - all go away just like that, with nothing that can replace them. We know this because we've already seen it happen when places in Korea have gone on strike or have had a shortage. And that was before we became so much more dependent.

[OldGimletEye]

23 hours ago, Kalbear said:

snip.

The Republican Party disagrees with this. It says it would lead to an economic boom.

Opinions differ.................

[Sivin]

10 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

While nuclear explosions wouldn't likely signal the end of the world, it would almost assuredly cause a massive global economic collapse that would make the Great Recession look very tame by comparison, which would in turn trigger a whole lot of other wars. 

So we have the scenario where somewhere in the US gets nuked, somewhere big. This disrupts everything. Snowstorms already can delay Christmas by a day, and that's just slightly bad temporal weather events. A city essentially dropping off the map is a supply chain nightmare. But even that is recoverable reasonably quickly depending on the city; if Seattle got nuked, for instance, about 1/3rd of the internet dies, but mostly things move on. 

If South Korea or Japan gets nuked, however, things get far worse. Both Korea and Japan are massive hubs of trade and goods and services that we take for granted as 'things that just work'. They're more centralized, more concentrated, and far more vulnerable to attack. Whole industries basically disappear depending on what gets destroyed. Massive dependencies on things like specialized computer parts, manufacturing systems - all go away just like that, with nothing that can replace them. We know this because we've already seen it happen when places in Korea have gone on strike or have had a shortage. And that was before we became so much more dependent.

Jesus man, sensationalize much? 

Flights would be cancelled, the markets would tank, and the political landscape would be in extreme upheaval. For a few weeks or months. 

The United States has the capacity to provide basic functions to every person in this country in perpetuity, including in the event that its infrastructure, or a large portion of it, were targeted by nuclear attacks. 

We have the capability to produce food at a rate unheard of in the rest of the world, we produce so much that the government gives massive subsidies to food producers because there isn't nearly enough of a demand to meet the supply. 

There isn't a resource on the world that could be denied to the United States should her eye fall upon it, and the greater the damage inflicted upon the continent the more aggressively its occupants will pursue mammoth tasks of civil engineering to combat new challenges. 

 

The unsexy truth is that life will pretty much just go on. A lot of people will die, and the world will look different afterwards, but the foundations of democracy and freedom will endure. 

The challenge is to make sure that as few people are hurt in the coming years as possible. I.E. do something about the Korean crisis. 

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, WinterFox said:

Jesus man, sensationalize much? 

Flights would be cancelled, the markets would tank, and the political landscape would be in extreme upheaval. For a few weeks or months. 

The United States has the capacity to provide basic functions to every person in this country in perpetuity, including in the event that its infrastructure, or a large portion of it, were targeted by nuclear attacks. 

Sure, it has the capacity to. Is it going to? Fuck no. We have the capacity to do so already, and we don't do it in times of smaller crisis. Look at what is happening to Puerto Rico, or even Houston. Ask them if they can cash their FEMA checks. 

1 minute ago, WinterFox said:

We have the capability to produce food at a rate unheard of in the rest of the world, we produce so much that the government gives massive subsidies to food producers because there isn't nearly enough of a demand to meet the supply. 

Awesome. We also have about 20 million people that regularly are in starvation situations in the US, right now. Think that gets better or worse if we get nuked?

1 minute ago, WinterFox said:

There isn't a resource on the world that could be denied to the United States should her eye fall upon it, and the greater the damage inflicted upon the continent the more aggressively its occupants will pursue mammoth tasks of civil engineering to combat new challenges. 

Sorry, were you aware that it isn't the 40s? That's not what the US does any more. We blow shit up and then deny healthcare coverage to first responders.

1 minute ago, WinterFox said:

The unsexy truth is that life will pretty much just go on. A lot of people will die, and the world will look different afterwards, but the foundations of democracy and freedom will endure. 

The foundations of democracy were basically eroded past reasonable repair after 9-11, and they would be utterly gone in the US if something worse happened. 

And again, that's not to say what would happen if somewhere of a supply chain chokepoint like Japan or Korea was nuked. 

[Kalbear]

I mean, seriously - when 9/11 happened we did the following:

• Created authorization for war to happen anywhere, at any time, and requires no actual authorization from congress. The AUMF that was in use to prosecute wars in Afghanistan is still being used 16 years later to justify war operations in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia. 
• Created a secret prison where prisoners are still being kept without any representation allowed.
• Heavily modified privacy laws.
• Heavily increased police powers and jurisdiction via the Patriot Act, which has not been repealed. 
• Allowed for torture. 
• Caused multiple countries to undergo regime change - Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Egypt. 
• Conducted thousands of special operations in countries with zero actual rights to do so, and no oversight.
• Killed thousands of people via drone strikes in countries we are not at war with in any way.

And that was a terrorist attack that destroyed two important buildings. Can you imagine what Democrats and Republicans will do, together, as one, if an actual nuclear attack occurred on US soil?

[Sivin]

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Sure, it has the capacity to. Is it going to? Fuck no. We have the capacity to do so already, and we don't do it in times of smaller crisis. Look at what is happening to Puerto Rico, or even Houston. Ask them if they can cash their FEMA checks. 

Awesome. We also have about 20 million people that regularly are in starvation situations in the US, right now. Think that gets better or worse if we get nuked?

Sorry, were you aware that it isn't the 40s? That's not what the US does any more. We blow shit up and then deny healthcare coverage to first responders.

The foundations of democracy were basically eroded past reasonable repair after 9-11, and they would be utterly gone in the US if something worse happened. 

And again, that's not to say what would happen if somewhere of a supply chain chokepoint like Japan or Korea was nuked. 

I'm going to tell you something that's really uncomfortable, but maybe it'll help. 

There's been an awakening in the force. America is passing into the possession of those worthy of her power. For the first time in the better part of a century there is engagement from millions of young people who bear something resembling pride and vision, something that this country has desperately wanted for most of living memory.

The unimaginable power of this country will be directed again by people who can see beyond the baser instincts and seek greater rewards than what the few and powerful see fit to allow from their table. 

The human spirit is something to be treasured and respected. When it is left too long to wallow in shallow pride, it is far too easy to abuse. As one has seen from one Donald Trump. 

[Kalbear]

7 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

I'm going to tell you something that's really uncomfortable, but maybe it'll help. 

There's been an awakening in the force. America is passing into the possession of those worthy of her power. For the first time in the better part of a century there is engagement from millions of young people who bear something resembling pride and vision, something that this country has desperately wanted for most of living memory.

The unimaginable power of this country will be directed again by people who can see beyond the baser instincts and seek greater rewards than what the few and powerful see fit to allow from their table. 

The human spirit is something to be treasured and respected. When it is left too long to wallow in shallow pride, it is far too easy to abuse. As one has seen from one Donald Trump. 

I envy your optimism, especially that when faced with some horrible crisis America will actually do the right thing. Good luck with that.

[Sivin]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

I envy your optimism, especially that when faced with some horrible crisis America will actually do the right thing. Good luck with that.

Hey man, I'll share it with you. We're gonna make it man, I promise. No matter what, even if it comes down to two former Klan members and a black transsexual holding it down in a field. You were born into the greatest gift our race has ever known in its brief existence. It's flawed, riddled with lies, and too often used against it's own interest but we have an actual functioning democracy. And the right to fight, to the last breath especially, to keep it pure in the face of corruption and strife is a precious thing that can never be underestimated. 

I've gathered contextually that you're already doing more than your share, and I know you don't need me to tell you which way to hold the faith, but if you need a preacher I'll give you a fucking sermon brother. Whatever you need man, I got you. 

 

We're the sons and daughters of democracy, and this world is whatever we want it to be. 

[mormont]

13 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Orrin Hatch announces his retirement. This probably means we're looking at Senator Romney in 2018.  Which is, sadly, a step in the right direction for the country.  At least we'll have a reliable anti-Trump Republican in the Senate after Flake is gone. 

Hah. No.

Romney will be all mouth and no trousers, tutting about Trump's personal conduct before faithfully voting for his bills.

4 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

I don't know, I imagine China might retaliate if their front lawn gets nuked.

In addition to what Kal notes about the damage to the world economy from Japan and S Korea, don't forget that even if China doesn't retaliate, it will have to deal with the collapse of N and S Korea plus Japan right on its doorstep. And then we have to hope that Russia doesn't decide to take advantage of China being weakened. Luckily Putin is a reasonable chap.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, WinterFox said:

America is passing into the possession of those worthy of her power. For the first time in the better part of a century there is engagement from millions of young people who bear something resembling pride and vision, something that this country has desperately wanted for most of living memory.

The unimaginable power of this country will be directed again by people who can see beyond the baser instincts and seek greater rewards than what the few and powerful see fit to allow from their table. 

The human spirit is something to be treasured and respected. When it is left too long to wallow in shallow pride, it is far too easy to abuse. As one has seen from one Donald Trump. 

If you're running for office, I'll be happy to work on your staff if the price is right.