Onion Knight

The ASOIAF wiki thread

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12 minutes ago, direpupy said:

However that does create the problem that Viserys the beggar king and Dany should then be unbolded to. What are your thoughts on that?

It's difficult. Viserys had a coronation, according to the app. Daenerys was his official heir (holding the title "Princess of Dragonstone"), and derived her claim from Viserys. But neither actually sat the Iron Throne. In their infoboxes, it was agreed to list them as claimants, so I guess they should no longer be bolded either. I am even doubting whether they should be listed as "Viserys III" and "Daenerys I", respectively. Without having them rule the IT officially, and being only claimants, it might be best to list them as "Viserys" and "Daenerys", although a note indicating Viserys styled himself as "Viserys, the Third of His Name", and another stating that Daenerys rules as Queen of Meereen, might be a good addition :)

What do you think?

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Just now, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

It's difficult. Viserys had a coronation, according to the app. Daenerys was his official heir (holding the title "Princess of Dragonstone"), and derived her claim from Viserys. But neither actually sat the Iron Throne. In their infoboxes, it was agreed to list them as claimants, so I guess they should no longer be bolded either. I am even doubting whether they should be listed as "Viserys III" and "Daenerys I", respectively. Without having them rule the IT officially, and being only claimants, it might be best to list them as "Viserys" and "Daenerys", although a note indicating Viserys styled himself as "Viserys, the Third of His Name", and another stating that Daenerys rules as Queen of Meereen, might be a good addition :)

What do you think?

Thats a great idea, i have already un-bolded them but i suck at making notes, somehow they always go wrong, not going to the bottom of the page that sort of thing. Could you make the notes?

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28 minutes ago, direpupy said:

Thats a great idea, i have already un-bolded them but i suck at making notes, somehow they always go wrong, not going to the bottom of the page that sort of thing. Could you make the notes?

No problem! Will do some time today!

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43 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I am even doubting whether they should be listed as "Viserys III" and "Daenerys I", respectively. Without having them rule the IT officially, and being only claimants, it might be best to list them as "Viserys" and "Daenerys", although a note indicating Viserys styled himself as "Viserys, the Third of His Name", and another stating that Daenerys rules as Queen of Meereen, might be a good addition :)

Sounds good to me as well.

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The Hound?" said Brienne.
"Another, just as brutal. He cut poor Clement's tongue out when he would not speak. Since he had taken a vow of silence, the raider said he had no need of it. 

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A new entry for the Errata, from https://redd.it/7v6exn

Quote

Arya VII of ASoS. Harwin goes to check on the sentries after Sandor comes in asking for his money and leaves after not getting it. Anguy then tells of the hand's tourney and how he spent the money he won. Harwin makes a comment on how Anguy spent his money. Anguy finishes talking. Harwin then returns from checking on the sentries.

 

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I've been fixing up the Organizations navbox I was working on:  https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Template:Organizations_navbox

Down to Magic, Commerce, Assassins' Guilds, and Outlaws.

Turns out there was already a nascent template for "Sellsword categories" so I posted that around every page that needed it.

- Should "Assassins' Guilds" be merged with "Sellsword Companies" as a sub-category on the same template?  There are only two named assassins' guilds.  Both sellswords and assassins are "people who kill for money".  Otherwise with only two, not much sense in making a standalone Assassins template.

As for Magic/Commerce/Outlaw organizations...would those make sense split up into other templates or not?  "Maesters" and "Night's Watch" are big enough to merit their own standalone templates.  But I don't know if these three are big enough to support their own.  Unsure.

 

 

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4 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I've been fixing up the Organizations navbox I was working on:  https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Template:Organizations_navbox

Down to Magic, Commerce, Assassins' Guilds, and Outlaws.

Turns out there was already a nascent template for "Sellsword categories" so I posted that around every page that needed it.

- Should "Assassins' Guilds" be merged with "Sellsword Companies" as a sub-category on the same template?  There are only two named assassins' guilds.  Both sellswords and assassins are "people who kill for money".  Otherwise with only two, not much sense in making a standalone Assassins template.

I've voiced my opinion on this on the talk page, but I'll state it here again so as to be as complete as possible. I find the differences between sellswords and assasins guilds rather big, and thus believe that they should not be merged. Either create a template for the assassin's guilds specifically, or do not create one at all, but I would vote for not adding them to the sellsword-template.

 

4 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

As for Magic/Commerce/Outlaw organizations...would those make sense split up into other templates or not?  "Maesters" and "Night's Watch" are big enough to merit their own standalone templates.  But I don't know if these three are big enough to support their own.  Unsure.

Personally, I think that these three are too different to put together. So, the same as above. Either create three separate templates, or none at all.

The template on the Faith Militant uprising battles started out with three entries (and has since grown to four, not that much bigger but still), so why would the limited size of the three categories you describe (magic, commerce, outlaw organizations) be any different?

Additionally, I would remove the entry "Saan family" from the template. While the family has produced several outlaws that we know of, to say that the entire family should be seen as an "outlaw organization" is overstating it. 

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Okay.

Yeah there's only two assassin's guilds so it's not worth making a template for - Faceless Men would go into a "Braavos" template or something.

Leaving Magic, Commerce, and Outlaws.

...yeah they're not really similar.  I mean, a merchant guild versus a pirate faction.  I was going by everything under "Organizations".

....the Alchemists' Guild does have some "commerce" aspects to it, in that it is a specialized trade guild of sorts dealing IN magic.  They sell wildfire.  Though they're also an order like the maesters in a way.  Warlocks are much more of an order than into commerce.

Quite separately, Outlaws....on land and sea.  Big issue is that many pirate factions are lead by an individual and then break up on their death.  The "Lord of the Tides" has his own fleet, that's a faction.  Dunno.

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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I was looking over the "Currency" article today and a thought occurs:

Tyrion's big description of Littlefinger, how 9 out of 10 tax collectors and customs officials are his agents, states that he appointed the men who run "all three mints".  

And we have the "Old Mint" in White Harbor.

Are there only three royal mints in all of Westeros, and the Old Mint of White Harbor is one of them?

Or does "all three mints" refer to "all three in King's Landing?"

For that matter, the Old Mint is..."old".  Might it be a holdover last used during the days of Torrhen Stark, to make the independent North's old currency? (it might not have been active for three centuries).  

Any World of Ice and Fire notes on this?

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14 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I was looking over the "Currency" article today and a thought occurs:

Tyrion's big description of Littlefinger, how 9 out of 10 tax collectors and customs officials are his agents, states that he appointed the men who run "all three mints".  

And we have the "Old Mint" in White Harbor.

Are there only three royal mints in all of Westeros, and the Old Mint of White Harbor is one of them?

Or does "all three mints" refer to "all three in King's Landing?"

For that matter, the Old Mint is..."old".  Might it be a holdover last used during the days of Torrhen Stark, to make the independent North's old currency? (it might not have been active for three centuries).  

Any World of Ice and Fire notes on this?

From ADWD, it seems clear that the Old Mint has been closed for a long time.

The huge oak-and-iron doors of the Old Mint had always been closed when Davos had been in Fishfoot Yard before, but today they stood open. 

 

The only reason the doors of the Old Mint are open when Davos arrives at White Harbor is the following:

Davos stopped beneath the colonnade and traded a halfpenny for an apple. "Are people living in the Old Mint?" he asked the apple seller.

"Them as have no other place to live. Smallfolk from up the White Knife, most o' them. Hornwood's people too. With that Bastard o' Bolton running loose, they all want to be inside the walls. I don't know what his lordship means to do with all o' them. Most turned up with no more'n the rags on their backs."

 

No entries in the app for the Old Mint, nor any mention of such in the White Harbor entry, and no mention of mints in Petyr's entry either. But with the Old Mint's doors having been closed during all of Davos's previous visits to WH, I'd say that is has been closed for a while at least.

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On 22-1-2018 at 9:26 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Regarding the customs page, my personal preference for the title of the section currently titled "entertainment"  would be "pastimes", a term used both in the RPG guides and on the Citadel, as it creates more consistency. Are there any opinions on the title of the subsection?

No further opinions on the use of "entertainment" or "pastimes" for the Customs subsection?

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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I'm inclined to pastimes, but I would be.

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On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:31 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

No entries in the app for the Old Mint, nor any mention of such in the White Harbor entry, and no mention of mints in Petyr's entry either. But with the Old Mint's doors having been closed during all of Davos's previous visits to WH, I'd say that is has been closed for a while at least.

....yeah, I thought it was closed due to the war, but Davos had been there in times of peace, even before Robert's Rebellion so...

....yes, your citation makes me lean more towards that it's some old Stark-king era mint or something.  Not used in centuries.  Probably.

I remember an old GRRM interview video talking about the then-upcoming World of Ice and Fire, in which he said that he want into a lot of mundane detail on world-building topics like "what was this king's tax policy on foreign trade" etc.  Mundane tasks High Fantasy literature often avoids, but which are interesting.  

So I was a bit let down when little of that got into the print version of World of Ice and Fire -- I hope a lot of it was actually written and was simply cut for time, to later appear in Fire and Blood.  
 

The only detailed info we got on things like domestic/economic policy was the brief description of Viserys I (increasing trade with the Free Cities, reforming the royal household, reforming the royal mints, etc.).  I hope we get more of that by Fire and Blood.....Christmas 2018!  

 

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Text

You mean Viserys II. Viserys I didn't do jack shit. Also, if the extended Westerlands writeup GRRM posted a while back is any indication, little of the cut material deals with trade, law, diplomacy, etc. Personally, I'm more interested in the 5K words cut from the Dothraki and Yi Ti sections of TWOIAF.

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