Role in WoW: Jon Snow (Spoilers):

[Chocolate_dream]

Jon has the secret royal heritage, and a plethora of parallels to King Arthur. He is also as hinted at being AA/PtwP, and through his heritage being ice and fire. GRRM doesn't purely deconstruct tropes, but critiques them. The books do seem to be following the trope of medieval courtly love with Sansa and Sandor.

Oh you sweet summer child. :)

[Fire Eater]

Oh you sweet summer child. :)

You have resorted to name calling (in a playful way I know), meaning you have no counterargument. I win the internet. :D

[Formerly Tetrarch42]

You have resorted to name calling (in a playful way I know), meaning you have no counterargument. I win the internet. :D

Yeah, that's what they said about the Hamburglar.

[SkaggCannibal]

...loving the ideas popping up in this thread. Lady Stoneheart sacrificing herself to revive Jon.... Being reborn amongst "Salt" pork and "Smoked" Ham in the ice cellar....

Jon Being the Stone Dragon..... There's so much foreshadowing I missed! Time to reread the series for a third time methinks.

Winds of Winter is gonna friggin rule!!

Is it sarcasm? Those are the three most ridiculous ideas in this threat. LS 2 kingdoms away will sacrifice herself for the boy she hates... AA needs ham to justify himself... Jon a stone dragon, can't even say where they got that, probably from some strange impression Mel would sacrifice Shireen to revive Jon, the next Queen of Westeros for a bastard is not gonna happen. I would certainly do a reread as that's always fun, but I wouldn't bother to look for clues for these theories.

[Amris1]

Actually it means Night's King 2.0.

I don't see any clues pointing to that fate for Jon, and it would make R+L=J around negligible. The Night's King 2.0 is more likely Stannis who has made his residence at the Nightfort with Mel as the Night's Queen.

Well - there is the fantastic theory by Dorian the Historian about The Song of Ice and Fire being based on the Ragnarök mythology. If Dorian is right then there are quite a lot of clues pointing to Jon joining the other side.

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.de/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html

[Ghost's Shadow]

Are the Others the misunderstood fluffy bunnies again?

[zeppelincheetah]

Jon gets stuck inside Ghost until FAegon arrives. Everyone calls FAegon on his bullshit then Jon wargs FAegon and struggles convincing everyone that he is in fact the rightful king.

[Fire Eater]

Well - there is the fantastic theory by Dorian the Historian about The Song of Ice and Fire being based on the Ragnarök mythology. If Dorian is right then there are quite a lot of clues pointing to Jon joining the other side.

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.de/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html

I think his theory stretches in areas. I don't see Jon being Mel's husband, and Jon being resurrected by the way of Beric and UnCat would be trite, and overusing of that device. Also, Jon is foreshadowed to be AA< the one leading the fight against the Others not for them. I think the clues point more strongly to Jon being resurrected by BranRaven.

Did a bit of a search, couldn't see that anything has been posted and don't know if Martin has ever made reference to it, forgive me if it's old news.

Follow the link to the Russian Garlan... d, a collection of Russian chap-book folk stories. I've read about half of them, honestly they're a bit of a struggle. A few passing mentions raise an eyebrow like Bulat the Brave Companion, Emelyan the fool and a comically brief appearance by a three headed dragon, but the headliner is the most interesting, brave, noble and creepy sleep watcher Lyubim is betrayed and murdered by his brothers only to be resurrected by the winged wolf and justice had by all.

http://www.akirarabe...an/garland.html

Jon, a prince, is "killed" by his brothers, and Bran, the winged wolf, and BR may move to save him. They may visit like BR did Bran in his coma.

Stannis is more the Night's King parallel as he is already shacked up with Mel, and he has made human sacrifices to her faith. He also gives part of his life fire when he beds her.

[TheRealRedRonnet]

I believe Jon Snow dies... But through Rob's will, Jon Stark lives. Or Jon Targaryen depending on what theories you subscribe too

[Shireen Shireen]

I believe Jon Snow dies... But through Rob's will, Jon Stark lives. Or Jon Targaryen depending on what theories you subscribe too

Or first one and then the other :)

Stannis is more the Night's King parallel as he is already shacked up with Mel, and he has made human sacrifices to her faith. He also gives part of his life fire when he beds her.

This.

[Arkash]

Just had a thought.

There are two beautiful women at the Wall for the moment. One is Fire, one is Ice. Melisandre and Val.

Jon is, in many ways, very close to both and a sexual tension in Jon is undeniable. What if Jon end up being the Night King reborn (I dont really adhere to this theory but what if), could his Ice Queen be Val ?

I could get in line with that. I admit I have a huge crush on Val and wish she'd had a bigger role in events to come, and that would be poetic.

[espresso]

Just had a thought.

There are two beautiful women at the Wall for the moment. One is Fire, one is Ice. Melisandre and Val.

Jon is, in many ways, very close to both and a sexual tension in Jon is undeniable. What if Jon end up being the Night King reborn (I dont really adhere to this theory but what if), could his Ice Queen be Val ?

I could get in line with that. I admit I have a huge crush on Val and wish she'd had a bigger role in events to come, and that would be poetic.

I have considered the possibility of Jon being the Night King, too. At any rate, I'd rather have him having a relationship with Val rather than Mel.

Meanwhile, I want Ser Denyse Mallister to be the 999th LC of the Nights Watch. I had felt pity for the poor guy when he told Jon of the several times he thought 'my time will come'. And guess what, if Jon returns as LC, he will be 1000th LC! (But maybe the wall won't survive till a 1000th Lord Commander). Other possibility is Jorah at the Wall.

[pandagod]

I do wonder if the last two books will be a slap in the face for all of us who think this will have a happy ending, I will be severely disappointed if all the Jon arc was in vane and Ramsey and Roose win this battle, they are cruel but wise in terms of war , and Jon and the starks are honorable and good but lack wisdom in playing the game , that's why most of them are dead or eventually will be...I hope Jon survives though , and that his role in the series is greater than just finding who his mother was and being Lord Commander .

[Stux]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, I had a scan through the thread and couldn't see it but there is a lot here and maybe I missed it!

What I am assuming has happened to Jon is that it wasn't really Jon that died. Melisandre glammered someone else to appear as Jon and cover his escape. The whole point in having Mance Rayder glammered to appear as Rattleshirt from a narrative perspective is to foreshadow this in my opinion. I'm not sure who it was that was really killed, presumably one of Jon's loyalist watchmen, but I believe Jon is safe and well and is already well on his way to Winterfell.

[T0mBombadil]

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt."

I've been trying to fit this quote into the Jon Snow being AA theory, assuming prophesies have to be fulfilled. Now maybe someone has already explained all this pertaining to Jon's death but here goes my idea that I literally just came up with lol.

"When the red star bleeds" - Now I think this must have something to do with Mel, her god being fire and her color being red 'something' would need to bleed to bring him back I assume.

"And the darkness gathers" - This could have to do with the others or maybe in this case the 'Nights' Watch gathering for Jon's funeral.

"Reborn amidst Smoke and Salt" - With the knowledge of the wights rising from the bodies of the dead, Jon wouldn't just be buried now would he? He would be burned with fire. 'Smoke and Salt' the smoke from the pyre and the salt from the Tears of his brothers.

I really do think the Ice Cages will play some part in keeping Jon preserved until they figure out what to do but it seems unlikely that Jon would just be reborn from a body that was just a pin cushion, and being in the North and under influence of Old Magic and the Others they would have to Burn the body. So to recap Jon does die, Wargs into Ghost to preserve his mind while his body is put into the Ice Cells until the Watch decides WTF just happened. While in Ghost Jon is schooled in Skinchanging 101 by Bran while learning his true past by seeing an old memory of Howland and Ned talking or something of the sort. Then Mel works her Voo-Doo realizing Stannis is a poser and hops on the bandwagon and brings back Jon, who wakes up with a killer headache and they all go out and fight the good fight.

Or.......Jon is really supposed to lead The Others against the Lord of Light who is truly the "Bad" Guy, while Bran and the Old Gods give him a hand.

[Makk]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, I had a scan through the thread and couldn't see it but there is a lot here and maybe I missed it!

What I am assuming has happened to Jon is that it wasn't really Jon that died. Melisandre glammered someone else to appear as Jon and cover his escape. The whole point in having Mance Rayder glammered to appear as Rattleshirt from a narrative perspective is to foreshadow this in my opinion. I'm not sure who it was that was really killed, presumably one of Jon's loyalist watchmen, but I believe Jon is safe and well and is already well on his way to Winterfell.

It was a point of view so I would feel a little deceived if this was a case.

[jet199]

I have had a random thought recently that if Jon heals quick he may have to flee and could end up either in the far north, south of the Neck or even on a boat to meet up with Arya in Braavos or Tyrion and Dany in somewhere like Volantis. It would be unexpected for him to get as far as the later option but it would be interesting.

It would be pretty unexpected for Jon to suddenly start travelogue-ing but he already has done a bit of that in his journey north. Jon and Dany's arcs often mirror each other so in ADWD they both had their staying and ruling arc with a running off/potentially getting themselves killed moment at the end. Most people expect Dany to:-

• Find out something interesting from the crones at Vaes Dothrak,
  
• Unite the khalasars,
  
• Return to Meereen and defeat the attackers,
  
• Then travel across Essos,
  
• Taking the major cities through slave uprisings.
  
• Land in Westeros
  

A mirroring arc for Jon might be.

• Returning north of the wall, learning something from BR or the wildings,
  
• Uniting the remaining wildlings,
  
• Return to the wall and defeat the rebelling wildings or rebelling NW or both
  
• Travel south
  
• Gaining support due to pro-Stark feeling
  
• Besiege the Twins or meet Dany when she lands
  

Or:-

• Jon returns to Winterfell, learning something either in the crypts or from the northmen there
  
• Uniting the northern factions
  
• Destroys all Bolton, Frey or Lannister power in the North right down to Moat Cailin
  
• Travel north
  
• Gains forces on the way
  
• Sees the full forces of the Others for the first time
  

There are lots of other variations but I think the Jon may be doing a lot more moving around in TWOW.

[newbieone]

Dead and staying dead wouldn't surprise me.

On the other hand, his actually and properly dying doesn't make sense if L+R=J.

In any case, I believe he's too northern to go south, he's determined to keep his vows, there won't be any Jon in KL or meeting up with Dany in the Stormlands or anything like that.

I can remotely see the possibility of NW just casting him out while alive, in which case he'd be free of the vows, but that wouldn't make much sense, I think.

[High Sparrow Little Bird]

I like the idea of Stoneheart sacrificing herself to allow Jon to be reborn. It would be very poignant as it would be symbolism for the love she never gave him before. This might mean that she finds out about L+R = J from Howland Reed. It also fits nicely that he is free from the Night's Watch and can go whenever he pleases. This does not mean he might not help them at another time. Whether or not he is AA, I don't care.

[newbieone]

If unCat finds out about L+R=J, then there's no more Ned's bastard but only Ned's sister's son, no more reason to be agaisnt him. :)