Watch the New Game of Thrones Trailer

[Le Cygne]

Jaime's thoughts go from one place to another, all the time, but he also thinks this:

“His wife?” Brienne said, appalled. “The Imp? But … he swore, before the whole court, in sight of gods and men …”

She is such an innocent. Jaime was almost as surprised, if truth be told, but he hid it better.

And what does he do? Gives a priceless Valyrian sword, a gift from his father, forged from Ice, to Brienne, and calls it Oathkeeper, to make good "our" vows, as he puts it to her.

Oh, yeah, and disobeys an order from Cersei, the Queen Regent. She wants to kill Sansa on the spot. He says no, take her somewhere safe before she finds her.

[PhoenixFlame]

I don't see it as poor writing if Jaime and Brienne aren't trying to pull a Monty Python and the Holy Grail rescue. They've gotten hit by three major twists--Arya's gone, Sansa's married, and Cat's dead. Plus Jaime and Brienne are wounded and exhausted. That's enough to demand a regroup to figure out what to do (I'm not sure how much time there is between the end of last season and the wedding). No one expects assassinations or Sansa vanishing. There shall be massive facepalmings.

[joachim]

At this point, with her mother dead, her uncle a hostage, her great uncle missing, her home a ruin, is there a better place for her than King's Landing? Once Cersei wants her head, that will be another matter.

[Colonel Green]

At this point, with her mother dead, her uncle a hostage, her great uncle missing, her home a ruin, is there a better place for her than King's Landing?

The Eyrie (ironically). Or, again, wherever she wants to go, and she quite clearly does not want to stay in King's Landing, surrounded by Lannisters.

I don't see it as poor writing if Jaime and Brienne aren't trying to pull a Monty Python and the Holy Grail rescue. They've gotten hit by three major twists--Arya's gone, Sansa's married, and Cat's dead. Plus Jaime and Brienne are wounded and exhausted. That's enough to demand a regroup to figure out what to do (I'm not sure how much time there is between the end of last season and the wedding). No one expects assassinations or Sansa vanishing. There shall be massive facepalmings.

Jaime I conceivably could see being very busy (obviously), but what's Brienne doing? She's got nothing else going on, and no reason not to make a beeline to Sansa to talk to her, at a minimum, and advise her why she's there.

[Woman of War]

The Eyrie (ironically). Or, again, wherever she wants to go, and she quite clearly does not want to stay in King's Landing, surrounded by Lannisters.

.

Sansa herself did not even consider another possibility where to go than "home", Winterfell, even when she knew that her younger brothers had been killed there. So what would she answer if Jaime or Brienne asked her? And Jaime and Brienne would be reasonable enough to see that there is no place anymore for Sansa to be taken to and that Winterfell is the last place where Sansa should go at the moment for the sake of her own safety.

Does Sansa even know Lysa, does she have any idea about The Eyrie?

I think, that Jaime would, knowing his brother, realize that at the moment there is no safer place for Sansa than playing Tyrion's wife, especially if she should go to CR with Tyrion. I am sure that Jaime will not see Tyrion as any kind of danger to Sansa, only the environment of KL is dangerous to both Sansa and Tyrion. And Brienne has no way anymore to fulfill her oath to dead Cat and to take Sansa away: there is no place for her any longer, only that unreasonable vague idea of going somehow to burnt down Winterfell. Taking a high maintenance girl to the North through a devastated country to a destroyed castle would be madness, even if this girl would want that.

Obviously any place would be better for Sansa than KL AFTER the Purple Wedding and Brienne may try to get her out asap and no matter where after the murder of Joffrey.

So if Jaime and/or Brienne try to save Sansa it will be after the wedding.

Another thought: might Jaime, in the HBO version, believe that Sansa had a part in killing Joffrey? Might he not even want to save Sansa any longer? She may have good reasons to poison the king but this terrible boy is Jaime's son after all.

It might though go the other way round in the books: Sansa might be the one to confirm to Jaime that Tyrion had no part in killing Joffrey.

[Rose-Papillon]

Sweet in a, Kill Tyrion for me... do me now... what?... no?... recoil from his stump... leave me... death of a relationship kind of way.

They already brought them together though, the dreamy seashell scene. I don't know why they brought him back early, sucked all the drama out of everything.

Never forget the seashell scene.

[Le Cygne]

Never forget the seashell scene.

Yay, you're here! :)

I tried to get them to see reason, I tried...

[Le Cygne]

To put forth the only place in the entire world Sansa would be safe was with Tyrion Lannister is hilarious. She was forcibly married on the basis of being forced to bear heirs to secure Winterfell, Tyrion made no secret of that in the books, he said "I want Winterfell" - the only way that was going to happen was rape and the death of her brother. Even if he got butthurt because she found him repulsive (after making her strip and groping her in the books), he was still pressuring her to make it a real marriage. And she didn't want to be married to him. SHE WAS DESPERATELY MISERABLE.

Forced marriage is Ramsay Bolton territory. Robb planned to chop off Tyrion's head to free her in the books, and no, they didn't show that exact scene on the show, but Robb on the show was characterized the same way. Remember the scene of him slashing at the tree, well, picture Tyrion's head. Catelyn was devastated, every bit as much as Brienne, when she found out Tyrion went back on his word and forcibly married Sansa. She died knowing her daughter had been forced to bear the "vile children" of a "faithless dwarf."

Sansa was desperately miserable and rightly wanted the hell out of there. Where to go? AWAY FROM THERE. Here is Sansa just before the PW, when she was desperately wanting to escape:

"Her torments would soon be ended, one way or another."

[Konradsmith]

Maybe the Tyrells will assure Brienne at their sit-down that Sansa's safety is "taken care of". This would imply that Dontos would be rescuing Sansa solely on their behalf, making it somewhat more surprising when we see Baelish leering aboard his wee ship. Then at the PW, Marge will betray Brienne and demand that Joff have her arrested. This could make Jaime leave to try and reason with her jailers and bring the PW back to its book setup.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

To put forth the only place in the entire world Sansa would be safe was with Tyrion Lannister is hilarious. She was forcibly married on the basis of being forced to bear heirs to secure Winterfell, Tyrion made no secret of that in the books, he said "I want Winterfell" - the only way that was going to happen was rape and the death of her brother. Even if he got butthurt because she found him repulsive, he was still pressuring her to make it a real marriage. And she didn't want to be married to him. SHE WAS DESPERATELY MISERABLE.

Forced marriage is Ramsay Bolton territory. Robb planned to chop off Tyrion's head to free her in the books, and no, they didn't show that exact scene on the show, but Robb on the show was characterized the same way. Remember the scene of him slashing at the tree, well, picture Tyrion's head. Catelyn was devastated, every bit as much as Brienne, when she found out Tyrion went back on his word and forcibly married Sansa. She died knowing her daughter had been forced to bear the "vile children" of a "faithless dwarf."

Sansa was desperately miserable and rightly wanted the hell out of there. Where to go? AWAY FROM THERE. Here is Sansa just before the PW, when she was desperately wanting to escape:

Yes, Sansa was forced into marriage. But he wasn't hurting her, nor was he planning to. He would be kind to her, civil, even if they would never lay together as husband and wife.

Ramsay Bolton's forced marriages are a completely different thing. Ramsay left Lady Hornwood to die, locked away without food. He abuses Jeyne Poole terribly. He rapes her often.

Tyrion doesn't do that :) He doesn't ever show any indication of actually wanting to force himself on her, even after he thinks to himself "I want Winterfell". Of course, he never acts on his thoughts.

What he shows in that passage is whishfull thinking:

I want her, he realized. I want Winterfell, yes, but I want her as well, child or woman or whatever she is. I want to comfort her. I want to hear her laugh. I want her to come to me willingly, to bring me her joys and her sorrows and her lust. His mouth twisted in a bitter smile. Yes, and I want to be tall as Jaime and as strong as Ser Gregor the Mountain too, for all the bloody good it does.

Thinking about wanting to be as tall as Jaime and as strong as Gregor together with all those other thoughts, shows that he knows it's not going to happen.

So with Sansa married to Tyrion, no one can use her to make a claim for Winterfell anymore, and Tyrion won't hurt her, so she'll be reasonably safe. I'm not argueing that it was a good situation for Sansa to be in, but in the moment of the war, it was the best position for her to be in, actually.

[Le Cygne]

Maybe the Tyrells will assure Brienne at their sit-down that Sansa's safety is "taken care of". This would imply that Dontos would be rescuing Sansa solely on their behalf, making it somewhat more surprising when we see Baelish leering aboard his wee ship. Then at the PW, Marge will betray Brienne and demand that Joff have her arrested. This could make Jaime leave to try and reason with her jailers and bring the PW back to its book setup.

This is probably the best suggestion, it covers all the bases.

Here's the call sheet:

http://thegameofthronesguide.com/2013/09/12/leaked-call-sheet/

[Le Cygne]

What he shows in that passage is whishfull thinking:

Awww, poor baby. I want Winterfell. I want I want I want. Never SANSA wants. Sansa is way more deserving of our sympathy.

And what about these lovely thoughts? I think that's actually what they're showing in that shot, that he's bugging her, to the point where in the books, she says "Why won't he leave me be?"

He wondered what Sansa would do if he leaned over and kissed her right now. Flinch away, most likely. Or be brave and suffer through it, as was her duty. She is nothing if not dutiful, this wife of mine. If he told her that he wished to have her maidenhead tonight, she would suffer that dutifully as well, and weep no more than she had to.

SANSA was desperate to escape. She was planning on escaping. She is, actually, for the purposes of the story, a person. So we do actually have to consider what SANSA wants here.

Oh, and he keeps calling it "duty" but she calls it "obeying." She's not delusional. She knows she is in that situation there by threat of force. She didn't call it duty when she ran away from him and the "mockery of a marriage."

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Awww, poor baby. I want Winterfell. I want I want I want. Never SANSA wants. Sansa is way more deserving of our sympathy.

And what about these lovely thoughts? I think that's actually what they're showing in that shot, that he's bugging her, to the point where in the books, she says "Why won't he leave me be?"

SANSA was desperate to escape. She was planning on escaping. She is, actually, for the purposes of the story, a person. So we do actually have to consider what SANSA wants here.

Oh, and he keeps calling it "duty" but she calls it "obeying." She's not delusional. She knows she is in that situation there by threat of force. She didn't call it duty when she ran away from him and the "mockery of a marriage."

Alright, calm down. Chill. I never said Tyrion deserves our sympathy more than Sansa. I was just explaining what the people above probably meant, since you were kind of attacking them.

But the quote you provided shows what I already stated. He thinks about it, yet he doesn't act about it. It's not his thoughts that count here. Jaime can't look into Tyrions head. Tyrion might think about what would happen if he told Sansa he wanted her maidenhead that night, but he never acts on any of those thoughts. He also wonders what would happen if he'd lean over and kiss her during Joff's wedding. But he doesn't do it.

You seriously never sit somewhere thinking "What will happen if I do that? How should that person react?"? That's whats Tyrion is doing. He doesn't want to rape Sansa, and so, he doesn't take her maidenhead.

In westerosi standards, should Tyrion tell Sansa he wants to sleep with her that night, he'd be within his right, and it wouldn't count as rape. Keep in mind, these are Westerosi standards. In our standards, it would be disgusting.

And no, we're not thinking about what Sansa wants. We were talking about Jaime :) and about how he would want to safe Sansa, and whether or not he would want to it.

What Sansa wants is another discussion completely. Sansa wants her old life back, she wants gone from KL, where she has een terrorised and forced into a marriage. KL is not a place where Sansa will ever be happy, too much has happened for that. But Sansa doesn't have any idea where to go either. Winterfell is in ruins, Riverrun is under siege, and the Eyrie, though it sounds ideal for Sansa as Lysa, Sansa's last living relative who is untouched by war, is living there. Yet Jaime would never sent her there, since he knows Lysa, unlike Sansa. So where should Sansa go?

Removing her from Joff's grip, yes, that is a good plan. But where to go... that's another question completely.

As to the "mockery of a marriage"... that's exactly what it was. Sansa didn't want it, Tyrion didn't want it, and a marriage doesn't count in Westeros when there has been no consumation, which hasn´t occured yet. The marriage was solely made in order for the Lannisters to get their hands on Winterfell. Compare it to Tyrek Lannister who marries a child of a year old, so the Lannisters can claim her families lands. That´s exactly what they´ve done to Sansa. Both marriages are a mockery, the only difference is that Sansa is old enough to consumate the marriage.

[Le Cygne]

The follow-up to the seashell scene, that will be interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1wD1oqXYss

[Woman of War]

To put forth the only place in the entire world Sansa would be safe was with Tyrion Lannister is hilarious. She was forcibly married on the basis of being forced to bear heirs to secure Winterfell, Tyrion made no secret of that in the books, he said "I want Winterfell" - the only way that was going to happen was rape and the death of her brother. Even if he got butthurt because she found him repulsive (after making her strip and groping her in the books), he was still pressuring her to make it a real marriage. And she didn't want to be married to him. SHE WAS DESPERATELY MISERABLE.Forced marriage is Ramsay Bolton territory. Robb planned to chop off Tyrion's head to free her in the books, and no, they didn't show that exact scene on the show, but Robb on the show was characterized the same way. Remember the scene of him slashing at the tree, well, picture Tyrion's head. Catelyn was devastated, every bit as much as Brienne, when she found out Tyrion went back on his word and forcibly married Sansa. She died knowing her daughter had been forced to bear the "vile children" of a "faithless dwarf."Sansa was desperately miserable and rightly wanted the hell out of there. Where to go? AWAY FROM THERE. Here is Sansa just before the PW, when she was desperately wanting to escape:

You are meddling up books and show here. You cannot take scenes and situations from the books that did not happen in the show for your arguing what show characters should do and think. When Jaime sent Brienne to find Sansa, Sansa was not there anymore, she was gone while in the show he will be very much aware that she is married to Tyrion. Jaime could talk in person to Tyrion and to Sansa, so could Brienne. You cannot simply project your view of Sansa's situation on Jaime and Brienne, they may see it differently than you would in their place.

Why do you not simply quote me if you wish to argue against my post?

[Khal-a-bunga]

More A Song of Sansa & Sandor / A Song of Brienne & Jaime talk...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m99vueubxw1r88r1q.gif

[Le Cygne]

Well, we weren't talking about romance, but a hostage plot and oathkeeping and all sorts of interesting things like that... But now that you mention it...

Here's some Dany and Daario, Emilia Clarke:

Will we still see them together?

Yes.

Some good love?

A little some some!!

http://watch.accesshollywood.com/video/emilia-clarke-on-game-of-thrones-season-4:-how-does-daenerys-targaryen-get-on-a-throne-sag-awards-2014-red-carpet/3081342637001

[Konradsmith]

And the way Emilia says that is great. Very confidant girl with great triceps.

I wonder how Jorah treason will be revealed. All I can think of is that he gets all flustered and tries to boast about all that he's done for her and mentions that he saved her from the poisoner when he could have let her die. That seems somewhat out of character for him, but Daario's advances could perhaps drive him to it.

[Annara Snow]

Another thought: might Jaime, in the HBO version, believe that Sansa had a part in killing Joffrey? Might he not even want to save Sansa any longer? She may have good reasons to poison the king but this terrible boy is Jaime's son after all.

It might though go the other way round in the books: Sansa might be the one to confirm to Jaime that Tyrion had no part in killing Joffrey.

Jaime did believe in the books that Sansa poisoned Joffrey, and that Tyrion was covering for her - "my brother sometimes has bouts of chivalry". That's what he told Brienne, and she asked him why he wanted to save her if he thought she killed Joffrey. I don't remember what he said aloud, but he thought to himself that it was because Joffrey was a little shit who was nothing to him ("nothing more than a spurt of seed in Cersei's cunt").

At this point, with her mother dead, her uncle a hostage, her great uncle missing, her home a ruin, is there a better place for her than King's Landing? Once Cersei wants her head, that will be another matter.

Yes. Any other place is better for her (other than perhaps with the Boltons or the Freys) than the place where she is surrounded by those responsible for her destruction of her family, who have been keeping her hostage, and have married her to one of them in order to steal her family's lands. Every day living with them and having to attend their banquets and ceremonies and look at them must be almost unbearable.

So with Sansa married to Tyrion, no one can use her to make a claim for Winterfell anymore, and Tyrion won't hurt her, so she'll be reasonably safe. I'm not argueing that it was a good situation for Sansa to be in, but in the moment of the war, it was the best position for her to be in, actually.

:huh: No one can use her to make a claim for Winterfell anymore?! While she's married to Tyrion and there in KL, the Lannisters are using her to make a claim for Winterfell!

The marriage could be set aside because it's not consummated - but not while Sansa is in KL. All she can do there is live with her kidnappers and rely on Tyrion's good will not to rape her, and hope that Tywin does not get too impatient with the lack of a new little Lannister heir and doesn't start pressuring again, and we know that Tyrion didn't exactly find it easy to openly go against daddy's orders. Living with your kidnappers and hoping that your nicest kidnapper will stay "nice" is hardly the definition of "safe".

More A Song of Sansa & Sandor / A Song of Brienne & Jaime talk...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m99vueubxw1r88r1q.gif

Oh really? Great! Where is it? All I see here is talk about Sansa's situation as a hostage, her 'marriage' to Tyrion, and Jaime's and Brienne's plans. I'm pretty sure your post was the first time Sandor has been mentioned in this thread for a long time.

[Le Cygne]

And the way Emilia says that is great. Very confidant girl with great triceps.

I wonder how Jorah treason will be revealed. All I can think of is that he gets all flustered and tries to boast about all that he's done for her and mentions that he saved her from the poisoner when he could have let her die. That seems somewhat out of character for him, but Daario's advances could perhaps drive him to it.

She's wonderful. Sounds like something steamy.

It will be interesting to see Iain Glen transition to this new phase of their relationship. I think they may play the jealousy down, and focus on the angst.