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The Edward and Bella Factor: Which couple makes you want to stab yourself in the face?


ghosts in winterfell

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And thanks for reminding me about Jon and Ygritte. God, when watching the show, that one ate up WAY too much screen time...

It hurt even more because they created a 'let's chase each other' scenario that lasted for 2 episodes which also resulted in cutting out Jon traveling with the awesome Qhorin and NW 'elite' guys.

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Jaime and Cersei. Not because of the incest but because of how she corrupts him. Plus the whole sex next to Joffreys corpse, I mean, WTF!

I really dislike the notion that somehow Cersei is to blame for all of Jaime's bullshit. They're exactly the same age, she's not some older woman that sexually manipulated him. He was a willing participant in their goings on. He chose to do the things he chose to do. She did not force him. The idea that Jaime is some lovesick puppy incapable of making choices goes against his entire POV. Yes, he's a man in love and therefore does things that make her happy, but that's love not manipulation.

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I really dislike the notion that somehow Cersei is to blame for all of Jaime's bullshit. They're exactly the same age, she's not some older woman that sexually manipulated him. He was a willing participant in their goings on. He chose to do the things he chose to do. She did not force him. The idea that Jaime is some lovesick puppy incapable of making choices goes against his entire POV. Yes, he's a man in love and therefore does things that make her happy, but that's love not manipulation.

:agree: And that sexy time next to Joffrey's corps was completely on Jaime, which is also the reason so many readers seem to be ok with it. It's Jaime, everything he does wrong is someone else's fault. Or not a fault at all.

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@ Dany Girl

My saying of how Cersei corrupts him is based on text, and is simply my opinion, I have been wrong many a time!

What I see is when Jamie is apart from Cersei he behaves differently, starts to rethink his actions and does make some changes.

When Cersei is away from Jamie, she simply finds another man, or two, or three to have sex with and then manipulate, yes, manipulate, to do her bidding. Kettle back, her nephew, moon boy for all we know!

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Dany/Anyone. Drogo, Daario, Jorah, Jon, Young G. ANYONE.

So the main issue is Dany being in a relationship. Why is she not allowed to love? And isn't this a bit sexist?

@ Dany Girl

My saying of how Cersei corrupts him is based on text, and is simply my opinion, I have been wrong many a time!

What I see is when Jamie is apart from Cersei he behaves differently, starts to rethink his actions and does make some changes.

When Cersei is away from Jamie, she simply finds another man, or two, or three to have sex with and then manipulate, yes, manipulate, to do her bidding. Kettle back, her nephew, moon boy for all we know!

As is her right, they aren't married. Not her fault Jaime dreams it different.

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Lancel and Gatehouse Ami. In a perfect world it would be a great match, but with Lancel being so shamed by Tyrion over doing Cersei that he's off sex forever now makes it pathetic. He's off in the chapel mortifying the flesh and she's trying to seduce whoever in the great hall.



OTOH, I love Roose and Fat Walda. The Leechlord and the head weasel's grand daughter, what's not to love?


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I like to repress this part specifically.

Best time to get jiggy with it, really.......if one of them isn't packing birth control, that is. Jeez, forgetting the Jaime and Cersei part of it, hasn't anyone been in love enough to not care whether there is some period blood involved?

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I really dislike the notion that somehow Cersei is to blame for all of Jaime's bullshit. They're exactly the same age, she's not some older woman that sexually manipulated him. He was a willing participant in their goings on. He chose to do the things he chose to do. She did not force him. The idea that Jaime is some lovesick puppy incapable of making choices goes against his entire POV. Yes, he's a man in love and therefore does things that make her happy, but that's love not manipulation.

My problem with it is not that he's some lovesick puppy, nor do I totally blame Cersei for Jaime's actions. My problem with it is that Cersei led Jaime to believe that it was really and truly love, not almost auto-erotism on her part, only wanting him because he was a reflection of her. Jaime, at least.......can be said to have truly loved her, Cersei.....can't really love anyone, that's my issue with it. I do wish he'd woken up to it long ago, but better late than never.

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:agree: And that sexy time next to Joffrey's corps was completely on Jaime, which is also the reason so many readers seem to be ok with it. It's Jaime, everything he does wrong is someone else's fault. Or not a fault at all.

My issue with this is: Who cares, it's Joffrey, he's never looked better.

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@ Dany Girl

My saying of how Cersei corrupts him is based on text, and is simply my opinion, I have been wrong many a time!

What I see is when Jamie is apart from Cersei he behaves differently, starts to rethink his actions and does make some changes.

When Cersei is away from Jamie, she simply finds another man, or two, or three to have sex with and then manipulate, yes, manipulate, to do her bidding. Kettle back, her nephew, moon boy for all we know!

nah your right, she implements everything she tells Sansa during Blackwater against Jamie when he returns, but he won't bite, jamie is guilty of crimes but that doesn't mean he wasn't manipulated

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But you can't deny the awesomeness that is Roose/Fat Walda

:agree: I really do dream of the two of them making it, and raising kids together at the Dreadfort. Now, if Ramsey is down in the dungeons, that's just a bonus. I can't beleive I didn't notice that Fat Walda was preggers in that last Winterfell chapter until a reread.

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