Questions to Targaryen fans.

[Mark Antony]

1. What do you think of the "bad" Targaryen kings like Aerys II and Aegon IV?

Maegor The Cruel>>

2. What do you think of the Blackfyres?

I think Daemon was okay but I side with Brynden Rivers. The Ravens Teeth>>

3. What do you think of Aegon I's "right" to conquer Westeros?

Don't really care much, He conquered it so more power to him

4. What do you think of Rhaegar and Lyanna?

Meh to both

5. What do you think of the Baratheons claim to the throne?

Don't really care, Robert took it cause it was that or die. Aerys needed to be stopped imo.

6. What do you think of Robert, Stannis and Renly?

Rebellion Robert is a favorite of mine, I enjoy Stannis. But they aren't the brightest set of siblings

7. What do you think of Daenerys infertility?

I think she may yet be able to have kids in the future although I see her dying anyway

8. What do you think of Aegon VI?

I think he is a Blackfyre, I think Daenerys will slay him with fire :D

9. What do you think Daenerys would have done/ will do to the Starks, the Arryns, the Tullys, the Baratheons and the Lannisters?

Who Knows, We may yet find out.

10. What do you think will happen with Daenerys and the Greyjoys?

I hope she doesn't align herself with them cause I hate the damn Greyjoys but I definitely see it happening :(

[Nictarion]

Littlefinger mentions to Sansa something regarding 'three queens'. If these are Cersei, Marge and Dany, then Dany is the only one who does not currently have a foothold in Westeros, unless LF is planning to provide her one. So that may be a possible hint. But who the hell ever knows with LF?

tPatQ spoiler

in the first dance of dragons the Vale was ruled by a woman, and they supported Rhaenyra, possibly foreshadowing Sansa supporting Dany over Aegon

[Panos Targaryen]

1. They were scum who deserved to be deposed and replaced by better kings. I like the Targs, but that doesn't mean I believe they didn't have despicable members.

2. Daemon was the rightful heir technically, even though the king that named him his heir was a total douche and probaby did it to mess with Westeros. I think he would have made a better king than Daeron. He was more charismatic and had a more "royal" and powerful presence. As for the rest of the Blackfyres, I think the death and destruction they caused with their rebellions was not justified. And I doubt they were all nice and charming like Daemon.

3. Right of conquest, just like the Andals, the Starks, the Lannisters and all the others who became powerful in their kingdoms through force. In the Middle Ages the king with the most power and support is the one who could become king, and Aegon had both, so why not?

4. We don't know enough yet, but from what I'm seeing there's much more to the story than we believed. Rhaegar's actions (and Lyanna's, if she wasn't kidnapped) may have been foolish and led to many deaths, but we don't know how justified they were yet. Maybe Rhaegar was a prophecy-obsessed lunatic, maybe he really saved Westeros from the Others by giving it Jon Snow. We shall see.

5. It was just an excuse for Robert to take the Iron Throne. Yeah, technically they have Targ blood through Orys and Rhaelle, but I doubt Westeros supported them because of it, they just wanted someone to overthrow the Targs. Robert took the throne like Aegon created it, through power and support. He may be a usurper, but hey, fair enough, it's not like every other king in Westeros was given their throne.

6. Robert might have been a good and heroic man once, but the death of Lyanna and his marriage to Cersei ruined him. He was not fit to be king after what he became, and he should not have killed Rhaegar like a raging idiot. He should have given hin the IT, since he would have been a much better king than him. But since he believed he had abducted and raped his betrothed, I guess I can understand him. Renly was a presumptous, power-hungry, opportunistic idiot manipulated by the Tyrells who I doubt would have made a very good king, and he had 0 claim to the throne. If he had supported Stannis then Stannis would have won, and much bloodshed would have been averted. Stannis is a badass, an iron-willed guy, one of my favorite characters and I think he would make a great king, only if he became a touch more compassionate and relaxed with life in general. I want the Targs to take the throne, but I don't want Stannis to die.

7. I doubt it's true. MMD's prophecy has been somewhat fulfilled, through EXTREME symbolism and metaphors, and the fact that she is having a miscarriage at the end of ADWD proves she is not infertile.

8. Maybe he's a Blackfyre, maybe not. I wish he truly were Rhaegar's son, but that would cause problems with Jon hopefully ascending to the Iron Throne. Even if he is a Blackfyre, black or red a dragon is still a dragon. He has Targ blood in him, he is a Targaryen as far as I'm concerned. I think something will go wrong and he will fight Daenerys, although what will trigger the conflict is anyone's guess for now.

9. It depends on how her character will evolve in the next books. If she becomes the cruel, half-mad self-righteous dragon queen she has the potential of becoming then I'm afraid she will bring Fire and Blood to all of these Houses, even their more innocent members. If not, then she will better understand the story of her mad father, why Westeros rebelled and pardon these Houses. Except for the Lannisters. I don't see them surviving Daenerys' wrath, mad or not.

10. Victarion's fleet will bring Daenerys to Westeros. They will fight for Daenerys, but will later turn against her because Euron will get involved with some pretty dark stuff.

[The Wolves]

Was Aegon I actually that good of a king besides his conquering? Moreover, he helped set up a massive uprising against his regime following his death by his means of his heir similar to Robert.

Why wouldn't the Rebels fight their own bannermen if they were on the opposing side of them? It is no different then the Targaryens fighting some of their own bannermen who were rebelling. Nor did the Rebels get the throne though treachery in how they had already won by the time Tywin sacked King's Landing.

Finally, Robert was probably average with a good deal of the Targaryen kings that come before him.

At least Maegor was actually Aegon's kid he got that right at least.

Ned didn't have to fight his bannermen, Tully burned villages to the ground to get his bannermen to follow him. And Tywin was doing it all in the name of showing Robert loyalty when he killed Elia and her children and sacked a city and was never punished for what he did Robert practically applauded that horrific crap so I do blame him for that.

Robert was a negligent King who let scum and murderers grab power within his court he let people go unpunished for their crimes and in the process helped plant the seeds for his court to be what it is now(overrun with corrupt serial killing, crazy, mass murderers)

[Hajk]

tPatQ spoiler

in the first dance of dragons the Vale was ruled by a woman, and they supported Rhaenyra, possibly foreshadowing Sansa supporting Dany over Aegon

For meta reasons it seems quite plausible that Dany will get Vale support somehow.. Dorne will probably declare for Aegon. If the Vale plot is to somehow become more significant than Sansa's continuing victimization, then bringing Dany into it makes good sense. Additionally, if she is to be a major player then she needs some Littlefinger level operator on her side just like Aegon has Varys. The chess match between these two behind the scenes players has been developing for some time. This may be their end game.

[Nictarion]

Panos

I have to disagree on Daemon being a better king than Daeron. Being a great warrior =/= being a great king (Robert Baratheon). Daeron was one of the best imo. He was highly intelligent and did something none of his predecessors ever did, bring Dorne into the realm. Daeron also raised sons like Baelor Breakspear.

[Anath]

2. Daemon was the rightful heir technically, even though the king that named him his heir was a total douche and probaby did it to mess with Westeros. I think he would have made a better king than Daeron. He was more charismatic and had a more "royal" and powerful presence. As for the rest of the Blackfyres, I think the death and destruction they caused with their rebellions was not justified. And I doubt they were all nice and charming like Daemon.

Which king would that be? Even Aegon IV didn't name him his heir.

Daemon was also vain, treated his wife less than nicely and charmingly, was a liar (Blackfyre was not the sword reserved for the king only, no matter what the liar Daemon and his coterie of liars claimed). Oh, and he was also dumb enough to let himself be convinced that he was the rightful king because those doing the convincing stroked his ego. A great royal presence, inceed.

[Minsc]

At least Maegor was actually Aegon's kid he got that right at least.

However, he still conceived him in a way that was in opposition to the majority faith of his subjects thus leading to uprisings.

Ned didn't have to fight his bannermen, Tully burned villages to the ground to get his bannermen to follow him. And Tywin was doing it all in the name of showing Robert loyalty when he killed Elia and her children and sacked a city and was never punished for what he did Robert practically applauded that horrific crap so I do blame him for that.

Ned didn't have to fight his bannermen, because Aerys had previously cruelly executed their previous lord and his heir. In contrast, Hoster didn't have the same motivating factor for his bannermen in how he only joined because he personal marriage alliances with the rebels. That still doesn't mean that the Rebels were all for that, instead it just means they unjustly decided to condone it. However, similarly the Loyalists equally condoned Aery's unjust murder of Rickard and Brandon along with his calling for Robert and Ned's heads.

Robert was a negligent King who let scum and murderers grab power within his court he let people go unpunished for their crimes and in the process helped plant the seeds for his court to be what it is now(overrun with corrupt serial killing, crazy, mass murderers)

All of that was likely apparent in the Targ courts also.

He was highly intelligent and did something none of his predecessors ever did, bring Dorne into the realm. Daeron also raised sons like Baelor Breakspear.

To be fair, Daemon was able to win some support from the Dornish the same as Daeron with the Yronwoods. Similarly, I consider Daemon II to be a pretty honorable chap IIRC even if he was equal to Breakspear.

[Panos Targaryen]

Panos

I have to disagree on Daemon being a better king than Daeron. Being a great warrior =/= being a great king (Robert Baratheon). Daeron was one of the best imo. He was highly intelligent and did something none of his predecessors ever did, bring Dorne into the realm. Daeron also raised sons like Baelor Breakspear.

That's true, he was a good king in his own respect. But don't forget bringing Dorne into the realm was something Baelor the Blessed began (he was insane, but he did one good thing, arranging a marriage between Daeron and Myriah Martell), so you can't really say he incorporated Dorne all by himself. And by the way, good people can raise bad sons, and bad people can have good sons, as history has shown many times. Also, it is said that the Blackfyre Rebellions were mostly won by his sons. Sure, you don't have to be a good warrior to be a good king, but what sort of king leaves the protection of his own people and dynasty to others?

[Panos Targaryen]

Which king would that be? Even Aegon IV didn't name him his heir.

Daemon was also vain, treated his wife less than nicely and charmingly, was a liar (Blackfyre was not the sword reserved for the king only, no matter what the liar Daemon and his coterie of liars claimed). Oh, and he was also dumb enough to let himself be convinced that he was the rightful king because those doing the convincing stroked his ego. A great royal presence, inceed.

Damn, really? My mistake then. I thought Aegon IV made him his heir on his deathbed. And how do you know that the Blackfyre sword story was a lie created by Daemon? We don't really know that much about him, but from what we know he sounds like an inspiring figure, unlike Daeron.

[GreyWindsRevenge]

So I have been a Baratheon and a Stark fan since I started reading this series. Targaryens have never really been my thing, and I'm not sure why. So here are a couple of questions, that I want to hear your answers to.

1. What do you think of the "bad" Targaryen kings like Aerys II and Aegon IV?

2. What do you think of the Blackfyres?

3. What do you think of Aegon I's "right" to conquer Westeros?

4. What do you think of Rhaegar and Lyanna?

5. What do you think of the Baratheons claim to the throne?

6. What do you think of Robert, Stannis and Renly?

7. What do you think of Daenerys infertility?

8. What do you think of Aegon VI?

9. What do you think Daenerys would have done/ will do to the Starks, the Arryns, the Tullys, the Baratheons and the Lannisters?

10. What do you think will happen with Daenerys and the Greyjoys?

Non Targ fans can answer too.

1. Like all families you take the good with the bad.

2. Pretenders.

3. I guess no one ever really has the right to conquer anything. But sure enough conquer he did.

4. Rhaegar was incredibly short sighted and foolish for doing what he did. I do not believe that Rhaegar 'raped' Lyanna as Robert Baratheon claimed though.

5. I think they have no claim but that they won a rebellion. Being distant cousins to royalty does not make you royalty.

6. I like them all. Roberts character was dead and gone before I started my pro-Targaryen sympathies so it's hard to retroactively hate someone. Renly and Stannis are both good characters I enjoys reading about them so no hating there either.

7. It's all in her head. I think some prophecies are bull.

8. I believe he is not a pretender and that if Varys is right about his character than he should be a good king. His upbringing kind of reminds me of Egg's upbringing at the hands of Ser Duncan.

9. I think she will end the Lannisters and pardon the rest.

10. I think they will help her win the Battle of Slavers Bay. But that Dany is def. not going to marry Euron or Victarian

[Fire and Blood!]

1. Well they were incompetent/undeserving kings. The fact that they belong to the Targaryen family and that I like said family in general doesn't somehow excuse their obvious faults.

2. I think that had they survived they should have been pardoned and even reunited with the main Targaryen line. Daeron was the rightful king however.

3. He didn't have any right but he saw an opportunity and used it, I like that in a person. Also while his invasion wasn't morally acceptable it was perfectly legitimate.

4. If the whole thing was consensual - idiots, if Rhaegar took her at swordpoint then only he was an idiot. In both cases I'm very disappointed by how he neglected his own wife.

5. Nonexistent! They were traitors and usurpers.

6. I actually liked Renly. Robert... for the dead good or nothing, so I'll say he was a beast of a warrior. Stannis - extremely unpleasant person, it would be quite a misfortune to live under his rule. His religious oppression isn't improving my opinion of him either.

7. I'm convinced she can't have children until proven otherwise.

8. The true heir to the Iron Throne, I'm sure he'd make a decent ruler.

9. There would be some repercussions(and rightly so) but I don't think they will be severe.

10. Can't say, but I don't see an alliance between them as likely.

[Nictarion]

Sure, you don't have to be a good warrior to be a good king, but what sort of king leaves the protection of his own people and dynasty to others?

If my brother was Bloodraven, I'd let him win my war for me too.

[The Wolves]

All of that was likely apparent in the Targ courts also.

Did Aerys court have people like Littlefinger who helped to poison his hand?

Was Jaime screwing Rhellea and passing his children off as his heirs?

Was the Lannisters as entwined at Aerys court as they were in Robert's?

Seriously though Aerys court was filled with incompetent people who should have tried to stop him from trying to kill everybody. The worst thing Aerys court did was whisper in his ear(Varys), have more loyalty to Tywin(Pycell) and Kill him(Jaime)

Robert's court had people actively working against him for years from his wife, to his guards man to his treasurer just about everybody worked against Robert while he was King

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

I have always wondered why Daeron never attempted to marry one of Daemons daughters to his grandsons. Did he hate Daemon so much that he just didn't want Daemon's family near the throne? Or did Bittersteel not allow him to do so? Just something I've always wanted to know. Seems like it could have prevented a couple of wars.

[Panos Targaryen]

If my brother was Bloodraven, I'd let him win my war for me too.

Yeah, but you have to oversee the affair yourself. You're a leader, if you won't take a part in the war why should the people who fight for you do?

[El Guapo]

So I have been a Baratheon and a Stark fan since I started reading this series. Targaryens have never really been my thing, and I'm not sure why. So here are a couple of questions, that I want to hear your answers to.

1. What do you think of the "bad" Targaryen kings like Aerys II and Aegon IV?

2. What do you think of the Blackfyres?

3. What do you think of Aegon I's "right" to conquer Westeros?

4. What do you think of Rhaegar and Lyanna?

5. What do you think of the Baratheons claim to the throne?

6. What do you think of Robert, Stannis and Renly?

7. What do you think of Daenerys infertility?

8. What do you think of Aegon VI?

9. What do you think Daenerys would have done/ will do to the Starks, the Arryns, the Tullys, the Baratheons and the Lannisters?

10. What do you think will happen with Daenerys and the Greyjoys?

Non Targ fans can answer too.

1. They were douchebags

2. Usurpers

3. he had an army and dragons, so he had every "right"

4. They fell in love causing a war that killed thousands

5. I reject it, they are usurpers

6. I actually like all 3 as characters even though all 3 are usurpers

7. I don't believe she is infertile

8. He is the mummer's dragon and he will be slayed

9. She won't do anything if they bend the knee

10. She will use their fleet to get back to Westeros but I don't see this "alliance" ending well for the Greyjoys

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Now I am thinking about #6, the Baratheons are the male analogy to Beauty (Renly), Brains(Stannis) and Brawn(Robert) trope.

He got his brother Aemon killed, one of the most noble people in the entire history of Westeros. He made Naerys live miserable. He must have empoverished the throne (giving dragon eggs away), pissed of many nobles, gave more fuel to the Bracken-Blackwood feud, twarted and ridiculed his heir Daeron II (probably the best King in Westerosi history after Jaeherys the Concilliator), planted the seed for the Blackfyre rebbelions which are probably the bloodiest conflicts in the entire history of Targaryen rule.

His actions also planted the seed for RR, tWot5K and the Dance 2.0. if you believe in the Faegon-theories (Either the classic Blackfyre theory or the Blackfyre-Brightflame angle) thanks to Varys plotting and skeming to get a Blackfyre-Brightflame decendant on the IT.

And in stark contrast with Aerys II he wasn't mad, nor is there any indication that his small council had a Varys figure in it. He also came to the IT after Viserys II, who was also one of the great Kings of Targaryen history (after Jaeherys I, Daeron II he would be third).

I believe that Daeron started the war when he decided that Dorne needed two wedding. If he had given his sister to Daemon nothing would had happened, instead of a civil war he would had a powerful ally. They didn't learnt anything?

When he killed Aemon? Did he raped and abused Naerys? No, he commanded her to be in the court, there were always the possibility that he would need more heirs.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Yeah, but you have to oversee the affair yourself. You're a leader, if you won't take a part in the war why should the people who fight for you do?

I somewhat agree with this. Being a good warrior is sort of a bonus for a king. A king leading an army into battle is inspiring for the common troops and knights. That's why Daemon was more popular than Daeron, though Daeron was undoubtly the better king. It's part of the reason why I think Baelor would've been more succesful than Daeron.

[Anath]

Damn, really? My mistake then. I thought Aegon IV made him his heir on his deathbed. And how do you know that the Blackfyre sword story was a lie created by Daemon? We don't really know that much about him, but from what we know he sounds like an inspiring figure, unlike Daeron.

We know that the Blackfyre sword story was something Daemon's supporters spread to gain sympathy for his cause. Honourable Daemon didn't say, "Hey, let's tone it down and don't resort to lies." Or maybe he didn't know what the main lie his supporters were spreading was?

He was inspiring. Just not enough to justify all those who died for the sake of his vanity.