True Detective V

[Elder Sister]

Or Hart comes to talk to her about what's been up with their daughter for years.

eta:

@ES:

Damn...that is possible...plausible.

I wonder what the motivation is for abuse and apparently making women and girls watch the abuse.

Some kind of sacrament that requires witnesses?

I'm not sure. I think, given how we see Maggie react to Marty when she knows he's been cheating...she shows very little emotion and manages to behave in a very normal fashion. It struck me that this is someone who is used to having to pretend. Also, her reaction to Audrey's promiscuity is much less judgmental than Marty. And her relationship to her mother is rocky. We haven't seen her interact with her father at all; this is the biggest 'tell' to me about her. They are not showing us Maggie and her father because they don't want us to see that he's part of it yet.

[Kalbear]

Also, rewatching the first ep. How is it that Charlie Lang doesn't know about the crazy shit that Ledoux was up to but is able to say that Dora 'wanted to become a nun' and 'met a king'. He didn't make that association once? At all? When he tells the detectives about the Yellow King? Seems real fishy, that.

I have to imagine that Audrey is still involved with the cult on some level, so it would make sense that Maggie would be in the last 2 episodes.

Sure - but one way or another their family's involved. That was something we thought before, but now we essentially have confirmation from Monaghan.

[Kalbear]

Also a little detail I never noticed before. The first time Marty shoots his gun was in killing Ledoux, at least according to the first ep. Wow.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Nah. I think it's clearer than that. Tuttle is more directly involved - he might not have been doing the killings, but he knew. He wanted it. And that's why he ends up dead. Something in those breakins was enough to cause Cohle to execute him. Something Cohle found implicated Tuttle enough that either he killed Tuttle or forced Tuttle to kill himself (something that Cohle is good at making people do). The killer wasn't found yet - which is why Cohle is still looking. And it's not the end.

but Tuttle's a part of it. As are the same people involved.

The issue though is that Rev. Tuttle turning out to be a secret cult believer is a bit far-fetched. If he's involved, I find it more likely that he is covering for the actual Yellow King (a relative, perhaps) or using the cult as a cover for a more conventional conspiracy (a secular child trafficking ring)

But a secret follower of the Yellow King? No.

[Kalbear]

Yeah; I could absolutely see Tuttle protecting a relative but not otherwise believing in whatever cult there was. I could also see him using the cult for his own gains and perversions. They give him the ability to, say, fuck kids. He gives them enough power to stay out of the limelight.

[Castel]

Here's my argument:

The last person we have in the interview room is Maggie. At this point we know she knows Marty is cheating again. 2002 is brought up. She tells the two 2012 detectives that Rust had integrity. We cut to a scene that technically no one SHOULD know about to relate to us as Rust is no longer in the interview room. Next is a scene of Marty on the phone with Beth reeling him to come over. He tries to say no, she says she'll let him fuck her in the ass. Immediately after that, we're in the scene relaying the party where Rust is suspended.

In the narrative set up of this show, NOTHING we've heard about 1995 or 2002 came from any independent source. It's always been related as part of the interview process. Or at least, that's how I've interpreted the structure.

Scenes we see are not always accurate, or they're the opposite, of how Marty, Rust, or Maggie tells it, but it generally follows that pattern. Until Marty's next scene in the interview, anything from the past times should be taken with a grain of Maggie's salt...so to speak...

When has this been the case? I mean, it doesn't match the story the interviewees tell but when has something been independently (as much as this can happen in such a format) disproved with some sort of other evidence? As far as I can tell it hasn't happened,so the possibility is:Maggie is knows stuff she shouldn't know, which has plot implications (I can't really say how unlikely it is until we actually see her involvement in the other episodes), or the story has slightly abandoned any sort of rigid enforcement of it's own mechanic. At first it seemed that everything could be read as direct quotes from the interviewee that we last saw, but if the story is catching up to the present there's no reason to maintain this, they might as well just give us pure flashbacks, which is really what they always were given the discrepancies.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just came across this on Fark regarding the class photo...this is the photoshopped version of the pic

http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/Lumpy67/media/TrueDetectiveClassroomPic_zpsa8ea9fa6.jpg.html

" The guy in the upper right to me looks like the lawn mower and I'm guessing Daniel Ledoux is in there as well. Also the girl in the front row - far right - looks like the Munchhausen By Proxy lady that Rust told to commit suicide."

Not sure I buy lawn mower man exactly, but the child killing mother looks pretty damn spot on.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

This is the non-photoshopped original, where you can see the second kid on the right flipping the bird. And the face of the girl second left in the middle has a different face...

http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/Lumpy67/media/TrueDetectiveoriginal_zps7a3c5058.jpg.html

[RumHam]

Also, rewatching the first ep. How is it that Charlie Lang doesn't know about the crazy shit that Ledoux was up to but is able to say that Dora 'wanted to become a nun' and 'met a king'. He didn't make that association once? At all? When he tells the detectives about the Yellow King? Seems real fishy, that.

Good catch, agreed.

Some people have mentioned a Decon, and I think this is the guy former tent preacher (Eil from Boardwalk Empire) said had those child porn photos. Then Rust asked Tuttle about him and learned he was forced out of the church and then died. This is all the information we have about the Decon right? He hasn't appeared on screen?

I can't wait to find out about this cult that somehow includes rich and powerful men like the governor's brother, high ranking members of the police department, and also people like the Southern Fried Pharmacy Fiend and Laedoux. Maybe that's the part of the genius of it, some kinda pyramid thing where the people on the bottom have no idea about the people on the very top.

[Sci-2]

Elder Sister - Interesting idea on #3 about Maggie. The only reason I have a hard time believing it is because she comes across as an extremely mature and well-adjusted adult. On the other hand, there's Marty's "right under your nose" detective's curse thing...

Wouldn't Maggie have recognized some of the trappings of the cult when the details about the first murder went public?

Or was she just abused without any ritual trappings?

Because we know Kelly - the girl they rescued - was made to watch the man with scars do stuff. And I think the show is indicating Audrey also had to witness stuff - maybe when Audrey was too young to clearly remember, like say age 3?

eta: So Maggie was abused, but maybe some other girl had to watch that happen?

[Maple]

Maggie & Hart's bedroom (note painting): http://imgur.com/cvRO1FF

Hospital where Cohle visits rescued girl: http://imgur.com/a/l0Z01

somebody in Hart's house came through that hospital, and since it is for women it ain't Hart

HArt to maggie "you're a whore" Maggie "you don't know the half of it"

all the criticism about no depth or strength in female characters? get ready to jettison that

"under my nose ... that woman those kids"

the woman did it and she's been doing it trying to get back at the guys that did her wrong long ago

[Maple]

I remove the masks for you.

Do not look or you will be driven mad.

http://imgur.com/a/nePDl

http://i.imgur.com/JvOozMr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nSCFng7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EaTtcVT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/A6EyNKb.jpg

[dooog]

Maggie & Hart's bedroom (note painting): http://imgur.com/cvRO1FF

Hospital where Cohle visits rescued girl: http://imgur.com/a/l0Z01

somebody in Hart's house came through that hospital, and since it is for women it ain't Hart

HArt to maggie "you're a whore" Maggie "you don't know the half of it"

all the criticism about no depth or strength in female characters? get ready to jettison that

"under my nose ... that woman those kids"

the bitch did it and she's been doing it trying to get back at the guys that did her wrong long ago

I'm tired of trying to talk to you like a man. Of course its her.

Here is what went down I figure: that school yearbook photo has 6 boys in it: 5 males and 1 dude that will become the transvestite. those 5 guys had consensual with some of the girls and rape sex with one or more of the girls and all hell has broken loose in covering up the behavior

the yellow king is a bunch of hocus pocus rhetoric

You're probably on to something but I don't buy that it's Maggie, at least not acting alone, that wouldn't make sense for a whole host of reasons. There's every possibility she could be an accomplice though.

[Mark Antony]

What the fuck are yall talking about man

[dooog]

What the fuck are yall talking about man

A television show.

[Q the Cat]

Maggie & Hart's bedroom (note painting): http://imgur.com/cvRO1FF

Hospital where Cohle visits rescued girl: http://imgur.com/a/l0Z01

somebody in Hart's house came through that hospital, and since it is for women it ain't Hart

Very interesting find on the paintings. Last night's episode got me thinking that Maggie is perhaps more involved than it initially seems.

Could she be a willing participant? That would explain the 'corruption' of Audrey at such an early age - whomever did that, must have had considerable alone time with Audrey.

Although it's difficult for me to believe that Maggie would be that evil .... She seems more of a victim of Marty's infidelities and inattention - until this episode that is.

[Q the Cat]

A television show.

Yeah, starring a ginger Ginger.

[Jabronius Maximus]

What the fuck are yall talking about man

I'm just as lost as you are man. But I guess the posts will keep flowing. They are not ramping down, but just getting started. Nothing stops this thread. Nothing.

I have no idea what I just said, but I faintly remember it from somewhere.

[red snow]

Yeah, starring a ginger Ginger.

If the Ginger love transcends this forum, you'd think the actor would be a lock-in for the lead in season 2. Or does he have to have the beard to be awesome? He looks totally different when the beard is transplanted to his head - I can't recall him being in Boardwalk Empire because of that. He's also appeared in Banshee - seems there's a bit of crossover with actors between these shows.

Going back to "the fall" - I think one advantage the show has over "true detective" is that the show opens with the identity of the murderer and the focus is very much on him. TD's creator has stated several times that it isn't about the killer. I think both shows get it right in that they don't glamorize the killer.

Season 2 of BBC's "the line of duty" is also worth a look. It doesn't really have the depth of TD or Fall but the plotting is excellent and the portrayal of female characters is also far more even and interesting. The sex in the show is also more plot/character driven and not gratuitous - although this could be more a reflection on BBC's "watershed" appearing to slip from 9pm to later. I think BBC1 is moving more into the "AMC" levels of nudity while sister channels BBC2,3,4 have more leeway.

[Anatúrinbor]

Interesting theory via reddit via 4chan,

The Yellow King are the girls that are sacrificed. At least they represent the Yellow King.

Blonde Hair=Yellow
Antler's=Crown=King

Dora, 1st victims name, is greek and translates to "God's Gift"

Stephanie, 2nd victims name, is greek and translates to "Crowned One"

It's all biblical from Christianity, which is due to Tuttle.

However the true Yellow King is Audrey. She is just like the others, however she was born into the bloodline and not recruited like they were. Both her mother and grandfather are members of the cult.

The Yellow King is the girl that is sacrificed, and she is essentially worshiped by the Cult. Just like that of the crucifixion of Christ. Tortured and Murdered in a brutal fashion, then put on public display. The Yellow King absolves the cult of their sins, just like that of Jesus Christ who died for the sins of others.

King refers to the crown they wear. The antler's are very much like the crown of thorns Christ wore when he was crucified. The Crown of Thorns is also known as the King of King's in biblical terms. In this essence, the girl is sacrificed is the King within the group of Kings, the 5 Kings leading the cult

The Yellow King is introduced to the cult at a very young age, which is why Dora Lange is found with the hooded men on horses as a child. Just as Audrey is found to be drawing the circle found on Dora's back and recreating the "5 kings" surrounding the girl in the bedroom. She also draws the man in the mask in the episode 7 promo early in the series in the school drawings.

Also the "things occur in circles" is a reference to the fact that it's always the same principle.

The yellow king is always a blonde girl chosen at an early age and introduced to the cult and "primed" until she reaches adulthood, then she is sacrificed. This is the case of Dora and Stephanie. It's the same damn thing occurring 17~ years later, from 1 generation to the next.

Finally I present you this.

-The book referenced as having the pictures of pedophilia was “The Letters of Telios de Lorca."

Telios's greek translation is Complete or Completedness, according to the bible.

The other literal translations are: brought to its end, finished wanting nothing necessary to completeness perfect that which is perfect consummate human integrity and virtue of men full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Telios appears 17 times in the New Testament.

Periodical Cicadas, or simply locusts, are referenced as being unleashed on Earth by God himself in swarms to punish his people who have sinned.

Here is INFO about cicadas(Locusts)
"Nearly all cicadas spend years underground as juveniles, before emerging above ground for a short adult stage of several weeks to a few months. The seven periodical cicada species are so named because, in any one location, all of the members of the population are developmentally synchronized—they emerge as adults all at once in the same year. This periodicity is especially remarkable because their life cycles are so long—17 years."

Marty and Maggie are married for 17 years before their marriage dissolves in 2002.

The case is bookended by murders from 1995 and 2012. 17 years apart. They represent the end of an era. A new Yellow King is sacrificed for the new era.

The cult operate like locusts. Underground, staying away from the public for 17 years. They then all emerge at the same time for a short period for a new sacrifice. This then marks a new era, and the cycle repeats. It's all a circle.

I'm leaning towards the idea that the Yellow King isn't an actual person. I haven't read the book by Chambers that people are referencing but from what I understood the stories are all set in a world where there is this mythical YK that supposedly drives people insane or something? It's possible that the writer is employing something similar here.