Ukraine IV: Putin for Nobel Peace Prize

[Borque]

Russian media saying the Crimean parliament has voted unanimously to join the Russian Federation, but they're still going to have a referendum on it - moved forward to March 16. Yeah, that makes sense.

Huh. They don't even try to make the process seem legitimate.

[Horza]

Hmm. It sounds a bit "sentence first - verdict afterwards" but reading the article which discusses the choice of questions for the referendum I wonder if the headline just got mangled in translation :dunno:

Could be. At a minimum it appears the question has been added on to the referendum. If memory serves that was what the parliament was going to discuss on the 27th, but couldn't because of demonstrations and some legislative manoeuvres.

I've assumed from the start that the referendum result was going to coincide with the Kremlin's wishes - whatever local sentiment the authorities seem keen on this autonomy thing and why go to these lengths if you don't have the administrative resources to get the right outcome?

PS. congrats on 10,000 posts!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Horza,

And, again, with Russian troops occupying Crimea how can there be any assurance of a free and fair election where all sides get the opportunity to campaign and then vote? If Ukraine and Russia were to pull back their forces to their bases and give both sides time to campaign it would make more sense.

[The Iceman of the North]

So, the US Department of State have published a list of 10 assertions of Putin that they claim are nothing but lies. Some of these are mere difference of oppinions, but most are Russian claims that are factually wrong.

As Russia spins a false narrative to justify its illegal actions in Ukraine, the world has not seen such startling Russian fiction since Dostoyevsky wrote, “The formula ‘two plus two equals five’ is not without its attractions.”

Below are 10 of President Vladimir Putin’s recent claims justifying Russian aggression in the Ukraine, followed by the facts that his assertions ignore or distort.

[Shryke]

Obama and Cameron forming a crack international team to deal with the crisis.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh_7ue7CEAAuiR4.png

[Shryke]

Also:

11:16:

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Vasily Nebenzya tells the BBC - before the news about the referendum move in the Crimean parliament - that:

• Ukrainian membership in Nato is a "red line" for Moscow
  
• "I do not imagine Ukraine in Nato - neither in immediate future nor in the future at all, [the] best option is to stay neutral."
  
• West should bear some responsibility for what is happening in Ukraine
  
• Russia wants "negotiations and political dialogue" to resolve the crisis
  
• Moscow still refuses to admit that armed men in Crimea are under Russia's control
  

• 
  

from the BBC http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26463731

[Werthead]

Holy shitfuck. We're in trouble.

Steven Seagal and Putin are on the same side.

[Robin Of House Hill]

The number of people who believe this lie is astounding.

[Inigima]

It's adorable that Russia thinks it can dictate whether two other countries can sign a treaty.

Edit: Not that we want Ukraine in NATO, specifically.

[Horza]

Just to confirm: the Crimean parliament has voted to join the Russian federation, but will have a referendum so people can tell them they made the right decision

The MPs said on Thursday morning that a referendum planned for 30 March – which was due to ask voters if they wanted more autonomy from Kiev – would now take place on 16 March, ask whether they wanted to join Russia, and only be a ratification of a decision that had already been taken.

The parliament also appealed to Moscow to assist its decision to seek union with Russia.

Russian MP Sergei Mironov said the Duma, Russia's parliament, could consider the appeal from Crimea as early as next week. The Duma has already begun work on a bill that would make it easier for new territories to join Russia, clearly penned with one eye on events in Crimea. On Tuesday, the Russian president Vladimir Putin had said categorically that Russia was "not considering" joining Crimea to Russia.

At a press conference in the Crimean capital Simferopol, the deputy prime minister of the region, Rustam Temirgaliev, said the parliament voted by 78 votes to 0, with eight abstentions, to hold the referendum on 16 March. He said the decision, which also gave the go-ahead to the territory to begin preparations to join Russia, "comes into effect from the current moment". The referendum would be held "only to confirm" the decision.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Is Segal Russian or just odd?

[Horza]

Is Segal Russian or just odd?

He and Putin are good pals:

When six members of Congress went on a fact-finding trip to Russia in May to learn more about the brothers accused of the Boston Marathon bombings, they sought the help of a close friend of Russian President Vladimir Putin: Steven Seagal. The aging star of bone-snapping action films such as Hard to Kill and Under Siege took the lawmakers around and arranged meetings with Russian security officials. “Seagal opened some doors,” Representative Dana Rohrabacher, the California Republican who led the delegation, said on CNN. “We got to meet top people.”

Wait—Steven Seagal? As it turns out, Seagal and Putin pal around quite a bit. The actor has dined with the Russian leader, gone with him to sporting events, and attended state functions. The two “have long been friends and regularly meet each other,” Putin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told the Russian Itar-Tass News Agency in March. More recently, Seagal has cultivated a side gig as an informal go-between for Moscow and Washington. The state-owned RIA Novosti news service reported Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin asked Seagal to press lawmakers on Capitol Hill to remove barriers to the sale of Russian-made guns in the U.S. “Bizarre is the word that comes to mind,” Clifford Gaddy, an economist at the Brookings Institution who focuses on Russia, said in an e-mail.

In Russia, C-list action stars are adored without irony, and Putin and Seagal seem to have bonded over, among other tough-guy traits, a shared affinity for martial arts. Putin is skilled in judo—a fact he shows off in a 2008 DVD, Let’s Learn Judo With Vladimir Putin—and has invited Seagal, a former aikido instructor, to attend martial arts matches and the opening of a school that teaches Sambo, a form of fighting developed by the Red Army in the 1920s. The action star smiled and waved and made Putin look cool by association.

[DanteGabriel]

Is Segal Russian or just odd?

Given that Seagal is also buddies with Sheriff Joe Arpaio, he probably just has a hard-on for strongmen.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Odd. Got it.

:P

[Robin Of House Hill]

He and Putin are good pals:

A bromance in Russia.. How sweet. :P

[Shryke]

Horza,

And, again, with Russian troops occupying Crimea how can there be any assurance of a free and fair election where all sides get the opportunity to campaign and then vote? If Ukraine and Russia were to pull back their forces to their bases and give both sides time to campaign it would make more sense.

Ye of little faith Scot. These will totally be the fairest elections ever.

They are even arresting to riff-raff to ensure a smooth and orderly and properly-voting election occurs:

13:21:

A 40-strong team from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) is prevented by gunmen from entering Crimea to begin their monitoring mission, AFP reports, citing an unnamed "Western diplomatic source".

13:07:

Police and Cossacks detain a woman protesting against developments in Crimea in front of the regional parliament building in Simferopol.

[jurble]

The number of people who believe this lie is astounding.

I taught myself to read Cyrillic a few days ago. So yay, I can read that! Didn't take as long as I thought it would. Soon all the world's alphabets will be mine. I tried teaching myself Russian after, but gave up after being unable to pronounce Здравствуйте.

Is Segal Russian or just odd?

Apparently his grandfather was a Russian Mongolian. That's cool.

[Gneisenau]

Huh. They don't even try to make the process seem legitimate.

Is there a legitimate peaceful process for part of a country to separate ?

[The BlackBear]

Is there a legitimate peaceful process for part of a country to separate ?

Yes you hold a referendum that is accepted by the government.

Voting for independence then holding a hastily cobbled together referendum later to back your decision up, is totally wrong way round.

Other countries are saying it's unconstitutional, I don't know what the constitution is so I can't comment on that front.

[Borque]

Other countries are saying it's unconstitutional, I don't know what the constitution is so I can't comment on that front.

In Ukraine's case it would formally require a national referendum to be constitutional.

Is there a legitimate peaceful process for part of a country to separate ?

A better way is that the referendum is

1) set at a date that gives both sides time to campaign

2) confirmed to be free and fair by independent observers

When the referendum is set 11 days ahead, and the only external monitoring is done by the armed forces of a state with a few democratic issues and huge interests in the outcome, it's just a travesty.