Braavos is on TV, but still WoW is not in sight.

[titanx5]

Looking at the various timelines and estimates for the TV series, it seems like the only way the books finish ahead of the show--even in the most optimistic scenario, even assuming 10 or so seasons--is if GRRM can publish ADOS in under three years from beginning work on it, and I don't think that there's any way that GRRM can do that.

Well D&D interview at the s4 premiere said that they were optimistic that GRRM would get out the books in time before the series overtakes them. However unless GRRM is writing both books at the same time, which a doubt as that would just create extra work without first finishing the one and then moving to the other. But I believe we will get WOW out end of next year, but will probably get some WOW content in end of s5. But completely agree with DOS will be spoiled by the show, as even though DOS will probably take shorter time than the others to write no ways is he going to be able to finish it in 2-3 years

[aFeastForDragons]

We will see a lot of content in the show before we get WOW but I'm really hoping we get ADOS before we see any content from it.

[Nordeast]

We will see a lot of content in the show before we get WOW but I'm really hoping we get ADOS before we see any content from it.

This just screams Sansa land. Any evidence this isn't just wishful thinking? Wouldn't best case scenario be that Winds comes out before season 6 and we get Dream 5 years later aka 4 years after the shows ends? i'm basing that off of evidence from the last 2 books, you are basing your prediction off of what?

[Colonel Green]

We will see a lot of content in the show before we get WOW but I'm really hoping we get ADOS before we see any content from it.

How would ADOS possibly come out before the show got there if TWOW couldn't?

[UKS]

GRRM will never finish his books. He obviously has a block. Still. The Knot was just a justification of a general malaise.

There IS a way he can get it done. But none of you would like it.

Extend WOW by 200 pages and kill Spring.

That's right, because of the TV series, cut one novel.

It would probably improve the story. Dany 2 Westeros, and then Others vs Dragons. No more travelogue

UKS

[alienarea]

GRRM will never finish his books. He obviously has a block. Still. The Knot was just a justification of a general malaise.

There IS a way he can get it done. But none of you would like it.

Extend WOW by 200 pages and kill Spring.

That's right, because of the TV series, cut one novel.

It would probably improve the story. Dany 2 Westeros, and then Others vs Dragons. No more travelogue

UKS

That is a possibility.

But given the quality of AFfC and ADwD it might be for the better that the producers only know broad strokes and finish before GRRM based on this.

He can do very good character introductions and single chapters, but apparently can't close and can't let go of characters.

For example: the only purpose I can think of for creating Lady Stoneheart reviving Catelyn is if she is the one to revive Jon Snow and make peace with him. But that would take two books to write unless she teleports to the wall.

For example: Robert Strong and the gravedigger. Everyone expects them to be the Clegane brothers, and the only reason they are not dead yet is they need to fight each other.

I could point out more, but I guess you see my point: GRRM makes the stuff up as he goes and has planted too many seeds for future storylines in the first three books. He had an endgame in mind but when he changed direction by scrapping the five year gap the seeds grew into a jungle and he is lost now.

He will never finish the series IMHO.

When you play the game of (fantasy literature) thrones ...

[Lord Godric]

It's not just Braavos. It looks like Bran is already not just beyond the Wall but in the cave with Bloodraven. I can't possibly imagine where they will take his story for Season 5 without venturing into TWoW territory.

Martin seems to be entirely foolish when he suggests that the producers can make two books out of each of Feast and Dance and then he'll have a few year to catch up, because they've already caught up with a number of storylines. It's not just the overall narrative that he needs to worry about passing him, it's Bran, Sansa, Arya, Theon, etc.

[Colonel Green]

For example: the only purpose I can think of for creating Lady Stoneheart reviving Catelyn is if she is the one to revive Jon Snow and make peace with him. But that would take two books to write unless she teleports to the wall.

That's the only purpose you can think of? What about the characters she's actually been interacting with, i.e., confronting Brienne and Jaime about their oaths (Jaime, especially, looks to have his character arc substantially determined by Lady Stoneheart)? Or Sansa/Arya, who are often speculating to meet her? All of those seem more likely than journeying half the continent to the Wall, which so far she's shown no interest in.

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

Hey so I just was in my Ottoman history class. My professor was talking about how a former student is pitching a show to HBO about Mehmed the conquerer and Vlad Tepes (aka Vlad Dracula) and their rivalry in the fifteenth century. Sounds like it would actually make a good tv show but that's beside the point. This former student was asking him to be a historical advisor to the show if they get picked up. Don't worry I'll get to the point.

The student was saying that HBO is looking for new material because they are anticipating their two most popular shows Trublood (last season) and Game of Thrones ending in the next 18 months. According to my professor HBO said that the author, GRRM, has run out of material and won't have anything new for them and they won't release shows if there is no book to base it on.

Now this isn't the best source and it may just be a precaution, but I'm worried that we may not finish the tv run and Winds of Winter may be further than we feared.

[Animist]

Ya it would be one thing if GRRM actually seemed be care about finishing the series.. but the guy has done so many other side-projects since 2010 it's like a slap in the face to HBO and the fans at this point.

There's always the small chance GRRM realizes that no ending he writes can be as good as the ones people already have in their heads. In the war of reality vs fantasy, fantasy usually wins. If the series remains unfinished then people can finish it however they want in their own little fantasy in their heads just like the mountains of fantasy story-lines going on at this website. There's also often some undeserved mystique surrounding unfinished works of authors IMO - drawing people in wondering if they can figure out the great mystery of how it all should have ended.

[mormont]

The idea that GRRM doesn't care about finishing the series relies on taking all the interviews and public statements where he's repeatedly said that he cares about finishing the series and that it is the thing he cares about most in his professional life, and discarding them as blatant falsehoods, on the basis of arguments that run:

- well, if he cared, he'd be making more progress, and/or

- well, if he cared, he'd never do anything else.

Since the latter two arguments are, to say the least, somewhat... child-like in their logic, I think it's unwise to prefer them to a man's given word.

[Chebyshov]

The student was saying that HBO is looking for new material because they are anticipating their two most popular shows Trublood (last season) and Game of Thrones ending in the next 18 months. According to my professor HBO said that the author, GRRM, has run out of material and won't have anything new for them and they won't release shows if there is no book to base it on.

Now this isn't the best source and it may just be a precaution, but I'm worried that we may not finish the tv run and Winds of Winter may be further than we feared.

They are not going to give up their most popular show because of GRRM's pace. D&D know what's going to happen and know the major plot points, and HBO just signed them on for 2 more seasons without a Season 5 even being formally ordered. So we're getting at least 6 seasons, and by the end of Season 5 you can expect that we'll be into WoW material for some characters. No doubt in my mind HBO is okay letting it run even without "source material."

Edit:

As for GRRM "caring," he definitely does. But by not making the 5 year time jump after SoS that he wanted to do, he's hit some major writer's block. It's a shame, really, because if he doesn't finish that's all he'll be remembered for.

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

Me personally if they catch up to the books I will stop watching. I don't want to spoil the books

[adense]

Me personally if they catch up to the books I will stop watching. I don't want to spoil the books

Then you'll probably have to spend years being careful to avoid spoilers. Both on the internet and "IRL", since people frequently discuss the show in all thinkable places!

[FalseKnight]

Then you'll probably have to spend years being careful to avoid spoilers. Both on the internet and "IRL", since people frequently discuss the show in all thinkable places!

Hitler had an interesting take on this one: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QSQtR7uwUZw

[Ser Tahu]

Hey so I just was in my Ottoman history class. My professor was talking about how a former student is pitching a show to HBO about Mehmed the conquerer and Vlad Tepes (aka Vlad Dracula) and their rivalry in the fifteenth century. Sounds like it would actually make a good tv show but that's beside the point. This former student was asking him to be a historical advisor to the show if they get picked up. Don't worry I'll get to the point.

The student was saying that HBO is looking for new material because they are anticipating their two most popular shows Trublood (last season) and Game of Thrones ending in the next 18 months. According to my professor HBO said that the author, GRRM, has run out of material and won't have anything new for them and they won't release shows if there is no book to base it on.

Now this isn't the best source and it may just be a precaution, but I'm worried that we may not finish the tv run and Winds of Winter may be further than we feared.

The two shows that they were referring two are almost certainly True Blood and Boardwalk Empire, which are both ending this year. As others have said above Game of Thrones has, for all intents and purposes, been renewed for seasons 5 and 6 so it will be around for at least another 24 months.

[King Zee]

Hey so I just was in my Ottoman history class. My professor was talking about how a former student is pitching a show to HBO about Mehmed the conquerer and Vlad Tepes (aka Vlad Dracula) and their rivalry in the fifteenth century. Sounds like it would actually make a good tv show but that's beside the point. This former student was asking him to be a historical advisor to the show if they get picked up. Don't worry I'll get to the point.

The student was saying that HBO is looking for new material because they are anticipating their two most popular shows Trublood (last season) and Game of Thrones ending in the next 18 months. According to my professor HBO said that the author, GRRM, has run out of material and won't have anything new for them and they won't release shows if there is no book to base it on.

Now this isn't the best source and it may just be a precaution, but I'm worried that we may not finish the tv run and Winds of Winter may be further than we feared.

It takes way more than 18 months to prep a HBO historical drama. Wasnt GOT in pre production for like 3 years before it aired ?

[Red Raven]

D&D have been living with the material for seven years now, so yes. It was several years of prep time.

If your professor specifically referenced GOT then he's off. It's been renewed through season 6 and GRRM told D&D the arcs of the characters so if the series does outpace the books (and it very likely will) they have material to work with to the end.

[FalseKnight]

The idea that GRRM doesn't care about finishing the series relies on taking all the interviews and public statements where he's repeatedly said that he cares about finishing the series and that it is the thing he cares about most in his professional life, and discarding them as blatant falsehoods, on the basis of arguments that run:- well, if he cared, he'd be making more progress, and/or- well, if he cared, he'd never do anything else.Since the latter two arguments are, to say the least, somewhat... child-like in their logic, I think it's unwise to prefer them to a man's given word.

I think some people argue that GRRM believes he cares most about finishing ASoIaF and knows that he has to say that, or fans will revolt.

The arguments you gave are child-like, but no one makes them. People say he does too many side projects and that he wrote himself into a corner. People support this argument with the fact that he churned out so many words for the World book and has commented about how much fun he had writing about Daemon. At least those are the arguments I see people using. I don't see how you can call them child-like. I hope he really does care about finishing the series.

[mormont]

I think some people argue that GRRM believes he cares most about finishing ASoIaF and knows that he has to say that, or fans will revolt.

For the former, of course he believes it - it's true. That is what he cares most about: he's said so, and there is frankly no good reason not to accept that. I think you really need to know someone pretty darn well to feel qualified to say that they're wrong about what matters to them most. Even then, it's a pretty brassy thing to say.

As for the latter, just, no. GRRM is not the kind of guy who tells people what they want to hear, knowing that it's false. Someone started a thread the other day asking if he'd lie in a SSM - it was pointed out that his track record shows that he never has. He's terrible at evading questions, even. He's not that guy. In any case, it would be dumb - he knows it would cause trouble later.

No, if GRRM says nothing matters more to him in his professional life than finishing this series, you can take that as actual gospel.

The arguments you gave are child-like, but no one makes them.

But you follow this sentence immediately by making one of them - that he does too many side-projects (ignoring the facts that they don't take up much time, and that he did just as many when writing the first three books). So yes, people do make these arguments, all the time.

Writing himself into a corner is closer to the truth: he's struggled mightily with the last two books, and he's been very open about that. I don't really know why people refuse to just accept that: maybe it's more comforting to imagine that the only obstacle to getting more books is one that's easy to overcome?