Weeping Sore Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 This is giving Jackson far too much credit, the elimination of property as a requirement for voting took place on a state-by-state basis in the early 19th century, mostly prior to Jackson's election in 1828. Jackson was a beneficiary of this change, not its instigator. You can go back to writing genocide on his forehead now. :P Well, my little protest was on the level of symbolism, and since Jackson himself symbolizes "Jacksonian democracy", my ambivalence remains. Not least because his anti-Indian policies were in part a response to the demands of newly enfranchised poor whites and homesteaders. So maybe expanding democracy meant giving power to ignorant assholes and by extension, a genocidal demagogue. I'm sure that didn't seem like an acceptable price to pay for the Cherokee and Seminole (though chalking the Trail of Tears and the Seminole wars to white poplulism is of course a simplification, as elite interests are always at play in these ventures). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Is this just the US government, or US citizens too? 1. US Filibustering in Latin America in the antebellum 19th century. US citizens would basically raise money, hire men to fight for them, and invade countries in the hopes of setting up their own petty territories from which they could make money (in Latin America this was usually from expecting to do slave agriculture). That said, it wasn't just Latin America - I think Canada ended up on the receiving end of two such expeditions in the 1830s, which they expelled. 2. The US military interventions in Russia in 1919-20, on behalf of the "White Army". 3. The Eugenics movement. This wasn't just the US, but the US was a big practitioner of it - and it had support among people who were otherwise quite progressive. There are people still alive who were sterilized in childhood because of state-level eugenics laws. 4. Racism in the Federal Housing Administration. Racism and pro-segregation policies in the FHA from 1934 to the mid-1960s are one of the biggest reasons for the lingering wealth gap between black and white households, and they played a very strong part in amplifying white flight from areas that black people would move into. Areas with so much as a single black person would be labeled as Grade D/bad for lending, meaning the people living there wouldn't qualify for FHA-approved-and-subsidized home loans (and often any other type of finance as well). We've had arguments about Hiroshima and Nagasaki before, and I still think it was a case of the Lesser of Three Evils. But I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Does cancelling Rome, Deadwood and Firefly count as crimes of the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Does cancelling Rome, Deadwood and Firefly count as crimes of the US? Of course. Of the worst sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Does cancelling Rome, Deadwood and Firefly count as crimes of the US? The cancellation of Rome is at least partly on the British, which is fitting as they've been our partners in so many crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Howell Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 The cancellation of Rome is at least partly on the British, which is fitting as they've been our partners in so many crimes. Ah, big brother Britain! ^_^ Nothing like some good old moral bankruptcy to bring a family together, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Invading Canada. And losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Howell Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Invading Canada. And losing. The real reason they never teach us about the War of 1812... Hey, did you know we actually had the gall to keep invasion plans for Canada on file as recently as post WWI? We had this insane fear that the British Empire was gonna come and try and get us back as a colony using Canada as an invasion route even in the 1920s. The basic plan was just: go north. Blow shit up. Repeat second step as many times as needed. Canada could see through us like a window though, so they hadn't counter measures in place as well (though they got scrapped after a few years because they figured we'd never be crazy enough to actually do it, and we scrapped ours as well around the same time). Their plan was basically just hold us off until we got bored with idea and decided that invading Canada wasn't as fun as we originally thought. The US tried to brush that all under the rug years later, but the files were declassified decades ago and nowadays people who look at them have a good laugh at America's paranoia. Like, really, invading Canada again? :huh: Do we ever learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Pretty much every army has those sort of plans lying around as a contingency. Doesn't matter how improbable the circumstances, it's always better to have some kind of plan to show your bosses should they ask, and nation-states when you get down to it are fundamentally amoral, paranoid little entities. So, that's neither unique to the US or a terrible, shameful thing in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The real reason they never teach us about the War of 1812... Hey, did you know we actually had the gall to keep invasion plans for Canada on file as recently as post WWI? We had this insane fear that the British Empire was gonna come and try and get us back as a colony using Canada as an invasion route even in the 1920s. The basic plan was just: go north. Blow shit up. Repeat second step as many times as needed. Canada could see through us like a window though, so they hadn't counter measures in place as well (though they got scrapped after a few years because they figured we'd never be crazy enough to actually do it, and we scrapped ours as well around the same time). Their plan was basically just hold us off until we got bored with idea and decided that invading Canada wasn't as fun as we originally thought. The US tried to brush that all under the rug years later, but the files were declassified decades ago and nowadays people who look at them have a good laugh at America's paranoia. Like, really, invading Canada again? :huh: Do we ever learn? Which really was the same plan as 1812. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Pretty much every army has those sort of plans lying around as a contingency. Doesn't matter how improbable the circumstances, it's always better to have some kind of plan to show your bosses should they ask, and nation-states when you get down to it are fundamentally amoral, paranoid little entities. So, that's neither unique to the US or a terrible, shameful thing in itself. QFT. The human mind is a fascinating thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Notch Balanter Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Conspiracy theories every single historic event in America seems to have a conspiracy theory involved. Mind you i'm partially sold on JFK being killed as a CIA/Mafia coup as a result of the Bay of Pigs debacle. Ruining brilliant TV shows with your own American versions eg Inbetweeners, Shameless etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Conspiracy theories every single historic event in America seems to have a conspiracy theory involved. Mind you i'm partially sold on JFK being killed as a CIA/Mafia coup as a result of the Bay of Pigs debacle. Ruining brilliant TV shows with your own American versions eg Inbetweeners, Shameless etc etc Yes. We seem to be particularly guilty of this travesty. I suggest a war crimes tribunal. (War on Quality Television.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Yes. We seem to be particularly guilty of this travesty. I suggest a war crimes tribunal. (War on Quality Television.)The American Shameless is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Carrot Top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuseprime Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The American Shameless is pretty good. SO was the American Office. (up to season 5 though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Howell Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Which really was the same plan as 1812. We never learn...*Shakes head in disappointment* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddington Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The real reason they never teach us about the War of 1812... Hey, did you know we actually had the gall to keep invasion plans for Canada on file as recently as post WWI? We had this insane fear that the British Empire was gonna come and try and get us back as a colony using Canada as an invasion route even in the 1920s. The basic plan was just: go north. Blow shit up. Repeat second step as many times as needed. Canada could see through us like a window though, so they hadn't counter measures in place as well (though they got scrapped after a few years because they figured we'd never be crazy enough to actually do it, and we scrapped ours as well around the same time). Their plan was basically just hold us off until we got bored with idea and decided that invading Canada wasn't as fun as we originally thought. The US tried to brush that all under the rug years later, but the files were declassified decades ago and nowadays people who look at them have a good laugh at America's paranoia. Like, really, invading Canada again? :huh: Do we ever learn? We weren't going to invade, there were however pretty high tension between the UK/US during the time. Apparantly the US used to wargame the naval engagment and the most common result was a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Howell Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Pretty much every army has those sort of plans lying around as a contingency. Doesn't matter how improbable the circumstances, it's always better to have some kind of plan to show your bosses should they ask, and nation-states when you get down to it are fundamentally amoral, paranoid little entities. So, that's neither unique to the US or a terrible, shameful thing in itself. Nah, I only mentioned it because it was actually pretty funny of us, rather than amoral or shameful. I mean, invading Canada? Just saying it aloud makes me chuckle a little because it sounds so ridiculous. Then again, who knows how well we got along with Canada back then, so maybe it was a real fear. But nowadays we're so close that invasion or war in-between us, even if only suggested as a "just in case" plan, it would sound like some bad joke that everyone would laugh at the sheer ridiculousness of. When the files were declassified, the few people that heard about them and what we had planned had a nice little laugh. It's more of just a silly thing to laugh at in modern times than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Howell Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 We weren't going to invade, there were however pretty high tension between the UK/US during the time. Apparantly the US used to wargame the naval engagment and the most common result was a draw. It was just a plan on file "just in case", but got scrapped after like three years because they figured they'd never have to use it. We weren't mobilizing for war or anything, just being a bit paranoid about the British Empire. The files were declassified years and years ago and it was very low profile since no one really saw the big deal about them except that it was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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