Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-Read Project Part II: ACoK & ASoS

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Excellent analysis! :bowdown:

Qarth must be one of the largest city is Essos, to impress even Dany who has travel through many of the free cities. I also really liked this sentence:

"All the odors that been missing from Vaes Tolorro had found their way to Qarrth"

If Vaes Tolorro had been an outpost (of a kind) of Qarth perhaps it's remaining citizens fled to Qarth after they were sacked.

Their relationship has grown sense the events of the last book, however, I do have to say that Jorah still treats Dany condescendingly at times. In his ming as Dany says she is still a cub and he wants to protector, however, he forgets that she is his leader, his queen. Dany on the other hand is very understanding, she calmly explains to him, that she is no fool:

"I am not the fighter girl you met in Oentos. have counted only fifteen name days, true... but I am as old as the crones in the dosh khaleen and as young as my dragons, Jorah. I have born a child, burned a khal, and crossed the res waste and the Dothraki sea. Mine is the blood of the dragon."

*****

We see throughout the chapter that Dany is very bright and that she doesn't buy into the "kindness of stranger". Back in her firs chapter in AGOT she says something to the effect that you don't get something for nothing, and she has that in mind as well while in Qarth.

Some accuse her of going all "fire and blood" when she reaches Westeros, but Dany has a clear understanding of what that entails and that's not quite the direction she wants to take. She says:

"The Dothraki sacked cities and plundered kingdoms, they did not rule them. Dany had no wish to reduce King’s Landing to a blackened ruin full of unquiet ghosts. She had supped enough tears. I want to make my kingdom beautiful, to fill it with fat men and pretty maids and laughing children. I want my people to smile when they see me ride by, the way Viserys said they smiled for my father. But before she could do that she must conquer."

So she understand that she'll need to conquer in order to get the resources to take back Westeros, but she also understand that the methods she uses for conquering cannot be the same as the ones she'll have to use to take back Westeros and rule.

This lesson is also clear in ADWD - she sacked Meereen then tried to rule, but it became an incredibly hard task. Will she be able to correlate this with her earlier thoughts, one hopes.

***

As for Viserys, she still misses him and loves him and has absorbed many of his "teachings" yet she still understood that he was a fool in believing that he could just show up to Westeros and they'd fall to their knees praising him as their king.

"Viserys had believed that the realm would rise for its rightful king … but Viserys had been a fool, and fools believe in foolish things."

She know she'll have to conquer Westeros but she also know she can't do it the Dothraki way. It obviously will not be easy, but at least she understands that.

Great points you touch especially the one that Dany won't conquer the Dothraki way. I've been disputing that in many threads, people come up with that assumption without any textual evidence, and that is one of the many points people hold against Dany in saying she is evil and is going to become a villain. And the quote you brought about proves otherwise.

It's amazing quotes like this are completely ignored by Dany detractors when talking about what a horrible queen she'd be.

Sometimes I wonder whether they have actually read the books before :p

[Fire Eater]

Good job, Good Queen Alysanne

The dragons, griffins and manticores is a nice catch. It further hints at her coming upon those in her future. I think the manticore is the first she comes upon, and then later Connington and Aegon.

She passed under a bronze arch fashioned in the likeness of two snakes mating, their scales delicate flakes of jade, obsidian and lapis lazuli.

Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.

Dragons are serpentine animals as is noted both in and outside the text. I think green scales on the serpent refer to fAegon and the black scales to Dany given TPatQ. The blue scales on the serpent could refer to Jon.

Dany had no wish to reduce King's Landing to a blackened ruin full of unquiet ghosts.

I think Cersei will, much like Dany's father did.

They said Robert Baratheon was strong as a bull and fearless in battle, a man who loved nothing better than war.

I think this is a mark against Dany marrying Victarion as he is also described as a bull, fearless in battle and thinks the gods put him on earth for one thing, battle.

His great shadow had lain across her since the hour of her birth, when she came forth amidst blood and storm into a world where she no longer had a place. And now this ebony stranger had lifted that shadow.

A way of saying the Stranger had taken Robert, or that Varys (a black dragon) may have had a hand in Robert's death? Or possible foreshadowing that Arya, who is connected with death and served in the HoBW, lifting the shadow of Varys, the man really behind the fall of House Targaryen?

"This changes everything." Dany rose abruptly. Screeching, her dragons, uncoiled and spread their wings. Drogon flapped and clawed up the lintel over the archway. The others skittered across the floor, wingtips scrabbling on the marble.

Another connection to Dany and her dragons. The dragons spread their wings when Dany gets a new burst of confidence and hope.

[Odon]

Jorah's condescending nature has a lot to do with his less-than-noble motives for helping Dany. He'd prefer Dany be dependent on him, as we see in later books. He's reluctant to go down to the harbour, preferring to remain as her bodyguard. His goal is to be with her, than to help return her to the Iron Throne.

[Mithras]

They said Robert Baratheon was strong as a bull and fearless in battle, a man who loved nothing better than war.

I think this is a mark against Dany marrying Victarion as he is also described as a bull, fearless in battle and thinks the gods put him on earth for one thing, battle.

agreed and agreed :rolleyes:

[SeanF]

It's amazing quotes like this are completely ignored by Dany detractors when talking about what a horrible queen she'd be.

There are two ways she could take Westeros, without shedding more blood than, say, Aegon I.

1. She arrives with overwhelming force, and most opponents realise that resistance is futile.

2. The realm is sick of the succession of dynasts, and pretenders, and rallies to her as the symbol of legitimacy, in the same way France rallied to Henri IV, at the end of the Wars of Religion.

But, Martin being Martin, he'll most likely create a bloodbath, in which good intentions count for nothing.

[Parwan]

Queen Alysanne said: A key thing to note in this chapter is Dany’s reference to the usurper dogs. Many people mistaken Dany’s term as being a term for the whole Lannister house and the whole Stark House but that is not the case.

And with him stood the great lords her brother had named the Usurper’s dogs, cold-eyed Eddard Stark with his frozen heart, and the golden Lannisters, father and son, so rich, so powerful, so treacherous.

So the Usurper's dogs only refer to Ned Stark, Tywin Lannister and Jaime Lannister.

That's a good point. The Usurper's dogs are individuals. There are probably other men Dany would include in the group, e.g. Stannis. As far as I can tell, however, neither Dany, Jorah, nor even Viserys ever clearly declares hostility toward an entire house. I've made this point on a few threads. It doesn't seem to matter. Some readers are convinced that Daenerys Targaryen will arrive in Westeros on a mission to kill all Starks, Baratheons...

How might the dragon queen react to someone like Sansa or Arya? To me, that's an interesting question, not an already-determined matter. A lot will depend on the circumstances of the meeting.

There are a good many relevant points in the last few pages of this chapter. For one thing, it's clear that Dany fears the powerful lords she sees as her enemies. This fear has a good foundation in her experience (the attempted poisoning, Jorah's warnings about the dangers that she faces, etc.), and it has become part of her attitude toward the "dogs." Mormont does deny that Eddard Stark would be a traitor, and Dany does dismiss his comment. However, her knight's denial is made in a very sarcastic manner, and when she says that Stark "was a traitor to his true king," he doesn't dispute the point. Dany finishes her statement with, "as were these Lannisters." That, I believe, is the nearest that she comes to declaring an entire house her permanent enemies. In my opinion, the phrase is far too vague and general to assure us that Dany will just automatically kill Tyrion when she learns his last name. There were, after all, two Lannisters, Jaime and Tywin, involved with killing her relatives. Could that be the extent of what she means by "these Lannisters"? Perhaps.

The idea of a singular, never-to-be-disputed, one-and-only "true ruler" is a severe problem with the thinking in the 7K. Dany has this idea. So does just about everybody else. It is something that she has grown up with. It is reinforced in this chapter. Quhuru Mo hears of the death of Viserys and says, "Then I grieve...for bleeding Westeros, bereft of its rightful king."

It's amazing quotes like this are completely ignored by Dany detractors when talking about what a horrible queen she'd be.

Later, we will get to some reasons for claiming that Dany is not a good ruler. The given quote is only one reason why I don't agree with the "she'll sack and burn everything" school of thought. The sort of issues we have been discussing can start us down the path. She is quite emotional. She definitely takes things personally. You don't have to agree fully with SeanF's comparison to Sulla to see that there are problems developing.

[MoIaF]

It's amazing quotes like this are completely ignored by Dany detractors when talking about what a horrible queen she'd be.

Sometimes I wonder whether they have actually read the books before :P

There are two ways she could take Westeros, without shedding more blood than, say, Aegon I.

1. She arrives with overwhelming force, and most opponents realise that resistance is futile.

2. The realm is sick of the succession of dynasts, and pretenders, and rallies to her as the symbol of legitimacy, in the same way France rallied to Henri IV, at the end of the Wars of Religion.

But, Martin being Martin, he'll most likely create a bloodbath, in which good intentions count for nothing.

I also think it's important to consider the nature of her conquest of Slavers Bay, the reasons why she is doing it vs. the reasons she wishes to conquer Westeros.

I think the nature of her fight to abolish slavery is personal in a way that her fight to win Westeros is not. She knows the slaves has heard their stories feels their struggle and can empathize with them, as she was once sold.

Her fight to conquer Westeros is a dream, something she has heard about sense she was a child, but it was never her fight it was her brother's fight. The enemies she grew up hearing about are all dead except for Jaime. There is a detachment there that she does not have in Slaver's Bay.

Something I could see happening is that when she gets to Westeros she realizes the plight of the smallfolk and could relate that to that of the slaves - in that circumstance I could see her get emotionally involved.

Jorah's condescending nature has a lot to do with his less-than-noble motives for helping Dany. He'd prefer Dany be dependent on him, as we see in later books. He's reluctant to go down to the harbour, preferring to remain as her bodyguard. His goal is to be with her, than to help return her to the Iron Throne.

Agreed - he gets blinded at times by his lust for Dany.

[Treemaster]

It's amazing quotes like this are completely ignored by Dany detractors when talking about what a horrible queen she'd be.

I don't think anyone doubts that Dany has the right motives, especially this early in the story. The question is whether -- and I see SeanF beat me to it already -- good motives alone are enough. How is Dany going to get the point that Westeros is filled with happy fat men? Merely wishing for these things won't make them so. If she wants to rule, it will almost certainly require conquest, then there will be fire and blood no matter what her motives may be. It's too soon to know how Dany's ultimate story will play (meaning she could still turn out to be a heroine or become an unexpected villain) out, but her last chapter in aDwD is not promising.

[Parwan]

1. I don't think anyone doubts that Dany has the right motives, especially this early in the story.

2. The question is whether -- and I see SeanF beat me to it already -- good motives alone are enough. How is Dany going to get the point that Westeros is filled with happy fat men? Merely wishing for these things won't make them so. If she wants to rule, it will almost certainly require conquest, then there will be fire and blood no matter what her motives may be.

3. It's too soon to know how Dany's ultimate story will play (meaning she could still turn out to be a heroine or become an unexpected villain) out, but her last chapter in aDwD is not promising.

1. Well, no one on this thread has expressed doubt about the matter. The same can't be said for all the Dany threads.

2. That's one of the main questions. I don't agree that it's the only one.

3. This story has enough depth to cause one to question exactly what the words "heroine" and "villain" mean. We will get to the last chapter of ADwD. My interpretation of events there is not the same as the most common one I have read elsewhere.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

, but her last chapter in aDwD is not promising.

We haven't reached that section yet in the reread, so I won't be commenting on it fully.

All I will say is that there is nothing "not promising" about Dany's last chapter. After looking at the overall theme of her ADWD arc Dany's last chapter is a big step forward. Since we aren't at that chapter I won't be commenting anymore until then.

[Ser Creighton]

Great points you touch especially the one that Dany won't conquer the Dothraki way. I've been disputing that in many threads, people come up with that assumption without any textual evidence, and that is one of the many points people hold against Dany in saying she is evil and is going to become a villain. And the quote you brought about proves otherwise.

Sometimes I wonder whether they have actually read the books before :p

Well have have read Jon's chapters and any Dany quote that has been placed on the forum and taken out of context. Or any theory on Dany being evil which somehow became fact. Like did you know Dany has not opened up her accounting books to the public? She must be evil, I mean that is a fact we have not been given her accounting books, so evil and the books prove it. Sure we don't know what any of the accounting books look like save the Crown which is 6 million in debt, though we have not seen the books and it is probably Dany's fault, cause of her evilness. She also killed innocent slavers, eeek! So evil, just thinking about her evilness scares me.

There are two ways she could take Westeros, without shedding more blood than, say, Aegon I.

1. She arrives with overwhelming force, and most opponents realise that resistance is futile.

2. The realm is sick of the succession of dynasts, and pretenders, and rallies to her as the symbol of legitimacy, in the same way France rallied to Henri IV, at the end of the Wars of Religion.

But, Martin being Martin, he'll most likely create a bloodbath, in which good intentions count for nothing.

Or, the slayer of lies is literally just that and she slays lies. Her presence in Westeros is enough to debunct Stannis being AA, cause the Dragons have been woken, and I don't think Stannis is going to stop and say wait maybe it's a metaphor, and she is a red herring cause I read it on A forum of Ice and Fire.

3. It still surprises me how many fans ignore the Others. How could Dany help a kingdom besieged by Ice Men how can the most symbolic and literal character of fire help? I wonder? Hmmmmm. Though I advise most readers to ignore the Iron throne and the quest for the Crown till the very end. I don't see the series as a yeah I won the Iron Throne I am the winner of the series. The actual premise is stupid, I have read Martins works, he doesn't do winners, it's not a competition. In fact I think the idea would offend him, the series and his work is generally much deeper than that. Apocalyptic scenarios are nothing new to him because they offer a lot of room to work with the human condition. The throne does not make a good leader, or represent good or evil, it's a chair. A chair for people who want power, Dany does not really want power, she wants a home, her only problem is she believes it's Westeros and that's the rub.

Dany has many problems as well, getting to this point in the story. Her brother fed her a lot of misinformation growing up and was not exactly a great role model, and to many others have fed into that. Dany also has something that nobody else in the books has in terms of motivation. A 13-14 year old girl, who came from nothing, remember her family lost everything before she was born. Goes on to have this horrible childhood, gets sold, becomes the Queen of a horse lord, loses everything again, turns around and wakes the Dragons. That is going to effect a person, she has all these people telling her she is special and a lot of it was BS, then she turns around and proves them right. Not only that but she has a dream and certain events that tell her how to wake the Dragons, By believing in her prophetic dream and herself she woke the dragons. Not only that but the moment she is planning on doing it a red comet suddenly appears.

The same dream that told her how to wake the Dragons also pointed to Westeros. It's been pretty clear to her character since book one that her destiny is in Westeros. For whatever reason her fate is tied to Westeros, it's not like she was planning all this when she was 12. Not to mention she over came the Undying, she won at Astapor and Meereen, and she has a shadow binder sending her cryptic messages that seem to be coming true plus the other prophecies. Nobody has anything close to this kind of destiny mapping going on. With all this going on, it's a ton of pressure for the character, which Martin has shown very honestly in the books. That's what drives her towards Westeros, that's why she sees herself as someone special, cause she is. That's her drive for that, but her hope that she has mentioned is very different. She want's a home and happy people, and warm arms wrapped around her. She can't really help the role fate has placed on her head. She thinks she is suppose to be in Westeros and to be Queen, because fate has been beating her over the head like a drum with it. Dany at times we see her being unsure of herself, questioning herself. Why me? Can you imagine being 13-15 and having done what she has done? She knows who she is as a person, but she doesn't know why all this is happening, she just knows it is happening and she has to except that, it's kind of hard to ignore the three 40 foot dragons in the corner or the fact that she performed a miracle. Or at this point the baby dragons, but no less relevant.

People make fun of Dany's titles, but they tend to forget Dany did not give herself those titles, everyone else did and they did it for a reason, girls been busy.

Anyway back on topic.

[Nictarion]

Well have have read Jon's chapters and any Dany quote that has been placed on the forum and taken out of context. Or any theory on Dany being evil which somehow became fact. Like did you know Dany has not opened up her accounting books to the public? She must be evil, I mean that is a fact we have not been given her accounting books, so evil and the books prove it. Sure we don't know what any of the accounting books look like save the Crown which is 6 million in debt, though we have not seen the books and it is probably Dany's fault, cause of her evilness. She also killed innocent slavers, eeek! So evil, just thinking about her evilness scares me.

Or, the slayer of lies is literally just that and she slays lies. Her presence in Westeros is enough to debunct Stannis being AA, cause the Dragons have been woken, and I don't think Stannis is going to stop and say wait maybe it's a metaphor, and she is a red herring cause I read it on A forum of Ice and Fire.

3. It still surprises me how many fans ignore the Others. How could Dany help a kingdom besieged by Ice Men how can the most symbolic and literal character of fire help? I wonder? Hmmmmm. Though I advise most readers to ignore the Iron throne and the quest for the Crown till the very end. I don't see the series as a yeah I won the Iron Throne I am the winner of the series. The actual premise is stupid, I have read Martins works, he doesn't do winners, it's not a competition. In fact I think the idea would offend him, the series and his work is generally much deeper than that. Apocalyptic scenarios are nothing new to him because they offer a lot of room to work with the human condition. The throne does not make a good leader, or represent good or evil, it's a chair. A chair for people who want power, Dany does not really want power, she wants a home, her only problem is she believes it's Westeros and that's the rub.

Dany has many problems as well, getting to this point in the story. Her brother fed her a lot of misinformation growing up and was not exactly a great role model, and to many others have fed into that. Dany also has something that nobody else in the books has in terms of motivation. A 13-14 year old girl, who came from nothing, remember her family lost everything before she was born. Goes on to have this horrible childhood, gets sold, becomes the Queen of a horse lord, loses everything again, turns around and wakes the Dragons. That is going to effect a person, she has all these people telling her she is special and a lot of it was BS, then she turns around and proves them right. Not only that but she has a dream and certain events that tell her how to wake the Dragons, By believing in her prophetic dream and herself she woke the dragons. Not only that but the moment she is planning on doing it a red comet suddenly appears.

The same dream that told her how to wake the Dragons also pointed to Westeros. It's been pretty clear to her character since book one that her destiny is in Westeros. For whatever reason her fate is tied to Westeros, it's not like she was planning all this when she was 12. Not to mention she over came the Undying, she won at Astapor and Meereen, and she has a shadow binder sending her cryptic messages that seem to be coming true plus the other prophecies. Nobody has anything close to this kind of destiny mapping going on. With all this going on, it's a ton of pressure for the character, which Martin has shown very honestly in the books. That's what drives her towards Westeros, that's why she sees herself as someone special, cause she is. That's her drive for that, but her hope that she has mentioned is very different. She want's a home and happy people, and warm arms wrapped around her. She can't really help the role fate has placed on her head. She thinks she is suppose to be in Westeros and to be Queen, because fate has been beating her over the head like a drum with it. Dany at times we see her being unsure of herself, questioning herself. Why me? Can you imagine being 13-15 and having done what she has done? She knows who she is as a person, but she doesn't know why all this is happening, she just knows it is happening and she has to except that, it's kind of hard to ignore the three 40 foot dragons in the corner or the fact that she performed a miracle. Or at this point the baby dragons, but no less relevant.

People make fun of Dany's titles, but they tend to forget Dany did not give herself those titles, everyone else did and they did it for a reason, girls been busy.

Anyway back on topic.

:lol: the bolded.

:bowdown: everything else.

[Treemaster]

3. This story has enough depth to cause one to question exactly what the words "heroine" and "villain" mean. We will get to the last chapter of ADwD. My interpretation of events there is not the same as the most common one I have read elsewhere.

I largely agree with this last point, and I look forward to hearing your interpretation of the last chapter in aDwD when we get there.

[Treemaster]

3. It still surprises me how many fans ignore the Others. How could Dany help a kingdom besieged by Ice Men how can the most symbolic and literal character of fire help? I wonder? Hmmmmm.

This is perhaps the most obvious way that Dany could gain the throne of Westeros without conquest. Perhaps the Others destroy almost everything; then, after Dany burns them to ashes, she stands in the pile of smoldering ruins and says, "from the ashes, a new order will arise!" And then, because Dany saved the day, everyone happily follows her.

This scenario could play out, but I doubt it. It doesn't fit the overall tone of the story so far. We will see.

[SeanF]

3. This story has enough depth to cause one to question exactly what the words "heroine" and "villain" mean. We will get to the last chapter of ADwD. My interpretation of events there is not the same as the most common one I have read elsewhere.

Do heroes carry out mass executions, burn, torture, and crucify people?

Not in fantasy literature, usually.

But, they do in real life. Alexander, Caesar, King David, Genghis Khan, Hannibal etc. showed incredible courage and resource, and were capable of great acts of kindness and generosity. At the same time, they performed the most dreadful deeds on their enemies. Dany fits into that mould.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

This is perhaps the most obvious way that Dany could gain the throne of Westeros without conquest. Perhaps the Others destroy almost everything; then, after Dany burns them to ashes, she stands in the pile of smoldering ruins and says, "from the ashes, a new order will arise!" And then, because Dany saved the day, everyone happily follows her.

This scenario could play out, but I doubt it. It doesn't fit the overall tone of the story so far. We will see.

Well that is really far ahead of the CoK's chapter we are discussing here. There is really no reason to speculate on how Dany will or will not rule a kingdom she has never even been to. For all we know everyone in Westeros will be begging for her to bring the dragons over and kill all the White Walkers terrorizing King's Landing by the time she is ready to go to Westeros, and she will be a hero for that reason. Let's just stick to the chapter we are currently on please.

[Treemaster]

Well that is really far ahead of the CoK's chapter we are discussing here. There is really no reason to speculate on how Dany will or will not rule a kingdom she has never even been to. For all we know everyone in Westeros will be begging for her to bring the dragons over and kill all the White Walkers terrorizing King's Landing by the time she is ready to go to Westeros, and she will be a hero for that reason. Let's just stick to the chapter we are currently on please.

Sorry if I got us off track, but I was attempting to respond to assertions that those who think Dany may become "evil and is going to become a villain" must have not "actually read the books before." I don't think making a short reference to a future chapter we are all familiar with -- and solely for the purpose of responding to unwarranted accusations by other posters -- is taking things too far off topic. Occasional discussion of the future is inevitable. For example, in his (or her) excellent opening post on ACOK I, GoldenFleece2 states (emphasis added):

I could be stretching here, but could this be foreshadowing Slaver’s Bay here? Leading people out of the old way of thinking (slavery or in this instance superstition) headfirst into a new way of thinking… into a place of a destroyed civilisation (with evidence of fades scars of fire hint hint) and human bones. Daenerys throughout the books I believe has never had any need of superstition or customs and has not hesitation of changing it.

I am sure there are lots of other examples. Really, it is impossible to stick strictly "to the chapter at hand" without ever bringing up anything past or future.

I realize Dany is polarizing, but I'd like hope in threads like this we could discuss the subject dispassionately, as Butterbumps, Lummel, and Ragnorak try to do in the Jon Snow reread.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I looked through the books and there is just one other mention of fire opal:

Daenerys II – Chapter 28 - ACoK

“Why should she need your Palace of Dust, when I can give her sunlight and sweet water and silks to sleep in?” Xaro said to the warlock. “ The Thirteen shall set a crown of black jade and fire opals upon her lovely head.”

********************

Interesting enough while searching for opal I found something curious. I'm not sure if it means something or it's just a coincidence. The same type of working and descriptions were used to describe Dany's ancestors in her fevered dream and then later Dany used a similar description to describe the "soldiers" Xaro gave her.

Daenerys III – Chapter 41 - ACoK

“The armor had been made of silver and gold, the knights of jade and beryl and onyx and tourmaline, of amber and opal and amethyst, each as tall as her little finger. “A thousand lovely knights,” she said, “ but not the sort my enemies need fear. And my bullocks cannot carry me across the water, I— why are we stopping?” The oxen had slowed notably.”

Daenerys IX - AGoT

"In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white , and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. “Faster,” they cried, “faster, faster.”

ETA: to add complete quote

Thanx for looking that up. I have no idea what the connection is at this point. Something that has to do with Dorne/Qarth and the maiden in the statue. I'm sure we will find out in WoW (hopefully).

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Do heroes carry out mass executions, burn, torture, and crucify people?

Not in fantasy literature, usually.

But, they do in real life. Alexander, Caesar, King David, Genghis Khan, Hannibal etc. showed incredible courage and resource, and were capable of great acts of kindness and generosity. At the same time, they performed the most dreadful deeds on their enemies. Dany fits into that mould.

I had to think about this statement for a few hours to realize how exactly right you are. Dany is a fantasy hero the likes of which has never really been written before. The entire series is like that. It shows an element of fantasy while keeping in line with the harshness of life and war. Dany does fit into that, it's just harder for some to accept her, I have no idea why. All the characters have some bad true-to-life qualities, but IMO that is what makes these such an incredible read. :)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

There is so much awesome info on this WOIAF App!!!! a whole lot of proof and disproof for a ton of ideas and theories :) everyone should download it!!