[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion

[Rashtibram]

Thorne is only acting Commander and Aemon has the advantage of seniority and he's very well respected so he can do shit like that. He's the goddamn Maester.

Anyway, Thorne may not like or trust Jon but a part of him believed what he was saying. I don't think he would have had him executed either way, which is why he didn't put up much of a fight.

I suppose you're right…I'll need to re-watch that scene, something about it just seemed off and the power relationship between the three judges wasn't explained well (eg. who had final authority).

[MoseStark*]

I liked the episode. However, just as everyone is saying, Jaime and Brienne are in KL way too early. Also, Shae is becoming more irritating in every episode, really. I do not hate characters, but Shae is just so incredibly annoying that she comes close.

I have to say I like new Daario, but that's mainly because Michiel is a way better actor than Ed Skrein was in last seasons. The only thing I'm afraid of is beginning to like show!Dario, because I have a huge dislike for him in te books.

And can they just stop Jorah from saying Khaleesi all the time? It hurts that show watchers do not know her real name, and I have to explain to them all the time that she's Daenerys and not Khaleesi. Still love Iain Glenn, though...

[sellswrd]

* New Daario....nuff said

* Shae. The actor is horrible...just horrible. She and Emila Clarke probably share a trailer and run lines together or something.

* I know this is way too specific but it bothers the heck out of me that Jon has recovered so quickly from his arrow wounds. I mean, com'n...Ygritte put three arrows into him!! Aside from a wince here or there, he's up and about like he had a splinter or something.

[Greywolf2375]

I felt the Arya's kill scene was too calculating. I know its a different character than in the book but I just feel like she was too cold. In the book while she starts out cool and calm the bloodlust comes over her and she goes berserk which I felt was really appropriate for a young person going through what she has. She shouldn't have been as calm yet about the killing. That is part of the change taking place in Arya over time. Still a fun scene though.

I was fine with how calculating she was, I wasn't ok with her expression - there was a little too much glee in it for where she is sposed to be in her arc. that she did it and how she did it I was all sorts of on board with. just how she looked as she did it.

[Raksha 2014]

Well it wasn't as bad as Littlefinger's monologue in season 1 (that was seriously the most awkward and poorly written 5 minutes of television i've ever watched) but it was pretty bad.

I just can't wrap my head around why they would go out of their way to turn one of the most interesting and badass character introductions I've ever read into ... this?

Oberyn's introduction in the books is simple, straightforward, rife with backstory and characterization and in barely a couple pages we learn everything we need to know about this character: he's confident, arrogant, he loved his sister and his family, he doesn't care much for court pageantry and he's not here to take shit from anyone, not even a Lannister.

The show tells us that ... he is bi and he hates Lannisters. I mean, even if you look at it objectively and not compared to the books, this was a weakass introduction.

Yes, I have unpleasant memories of Littlefinger monologuing his deepest feelings and motivations in front of his hired help as they're practicing sexual maneuvers - please, I despise Littlefinger, but he's not an idiot and he didn't get where he is now (or was in Season 1) by wearing his heart and history on his sleeve.

I wouldn't say that show-Oberyn's intro was terrible; the actor has some charisma; but it seems to me like the show creators were trying to cram too much into a couple of scenes - Oberyn being sexually way Liberated and passionate, arrogant, out for revenge for his murdered sister and her babies, plus the usual quota of nude bodies galore. And if they just had to show two or three nekkid girls, couldn't they have had the blond guy disrobe too?

There should have been a slower buildup to the issue of Lannister forces slaughtering Rhaegar's wife and children. As far as I remember, in the show, the only mention we've had of it was Catelyn saying something like 'remember what happened to the Targaryen children' and Aemon saying how his brother's great-grandchildren were killed 'even the little children' (I think he said that in Season 1). But the murders of Elia's children was a pretty big issue in the books; the sight of their murdered bodies hugely significant to Ned (and a major reason, in my opinion, why he did not seize Cersei's children when he had the chance and instead gave her the chance to take the kids and run, and instead sealed his own doom); there should have been a few more lines here and there about the tragedy, especially the connection to the Lannisters.

I will be furious if the show does not fit in Oberyn's wonderful story about his and Elia's visit to Casterly Rock when Tyrion was a baby.

Oberyn is one of my three favorite characters in ASoIaF; hope they do him justice and not just use him as an excuse to show more sex romps/nekkid girls. Oberyn is a passionate individual with a very busy sex life; but there are ways and ways to convey sexuality and seduction and sexual activity. The Oberyn I remember in the books might not have been so grabby with the cute blond guy; he wouldn't have needed to be to have his (and Ellaria's) way with him...

[TheSpottedCat]

The first thing that bothered me was the representation of Thenns as cannibals, which, imo is contradictory to the books. Plus, it has repercussions for the future. How are they going to support Jon marrying off Alys Karstark to a chieftain of cannibals and making him the Lord of Karhold, one of the most important titles in the North? Unless they're dispensing with this storyline, of course.

The other thing that really really really bothered me. And I mean REALLY. was the melting of Ice to form Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail. From the, admittedly, very little I know about metallurgy, melting down the sword was the wrong thing to show. When reading the books, I always imagined the blacksmith just melted the middle of the blade and cut the sword in two, and then polished the two pieces to form 2 blades. Isn't the strength of Valyrian steel supposed to come from the way it was forged, and especially from folding it, which caused the characteristic ripples, as well as from the alloy itself? Wouldn't melting basically ruin it?

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

The first thing that bothered me was the representation of Thenns as cannibals, which, imo is contradictory to the books. Plus, it has repercussions for the future. How are they going to support Jon marrying off Alys Karstark to a chieftain of cannibals and making him the Lord of Karhold, one of the most important titles in the North? Unless they're dispensing with this storyline, of course.

The other thing that really really really bothered me. And I mean REALLY. was the melting of Ice to form Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail. From the, admittedly, very little I know about metallurgy, melting down the sword was the wrong thing to show. When reading the books, I always imagined the blacksmith just melted the middle of the blade and cut the sword in two, and then polished the two pieces to form 2 blades. Isn't the strength of Valyrian steel supposed to come from the way it was forged, and especially from folding it, which caused the characteristic ripples, as well as from the alloy itself? Wouldn't melting basically ruin it?

I know a little of metallurgy but but no means an expert.... and Valyrian steel is magic. I always took the meaning of Valyrian steel from the books to mean the critical point was in the mixing of the alloy itself - not in the forging of the blade. A melt down as depicted does not change the alloy so I don't see a problem on that point. Swords are forged by casting a bar then working it into shape, and giving it its edge. Its the properties of the alloy (and magic) that then allow it to maintain that edge and prevent rusting.

The book canon clearly says swords can be reforged without a problem - the concept behind what they showed was probably fine. Also given the weapons experts they have on the payroll I would suspect that the process shown was fairly correct too (except they probable missed a few steps)

Nerdy metallugy warning:

Forging steel isn't as simple as just melting it down. Not all steel is created equal. To get the right properties (based on the structure of the internal molecular lattice) you have to heat the molten metal to specific temperature points, work it until it cools, then reheat so it can be worked further. Alloys make this more complex. Added to this is 'tempering' - plunging it into water.... sometimes its water, sometimes salt water and sometimes oil. The different fluids cool the metal at different rates and result in different molecular structures that provide different properties.

The varying types of steel is well represented in GoT and other shows - the difference between 'steel', 'castle forged steel', 'good steel to make bodkin points' (the Gendry scene) and 'Valyrian steel'. Even the sword 'Dawn' makes very real-world sense (even if it may not actually be practical)

Other shows that make a decent attempt at getting it right are 'Vikings' and 'A Knight's Tale'.

[Queen of Whores]

There should have been a slower buildup to the issue of Lannister forces slaughtering Rhaegar's wife and children. As far as I remember, in the show, the only mention we've had of it was Catelyn saying something like 'remember what happened to the Targaryen children' and Aemon saying how his brother's great-grandchildren were killed 'even the little children' (I think he said that in Season 1). But the murders of Elia's children was a pretty big issue in the books; the sight of their murdered bodies hugely significant to Ned (and a major reason, in my opinion, why he did not seize Cersei's children when he had the chance and instead gave her the chance to take the kids and run, and instead sealed his own doom); there should have been a few more lines here and there about the tragedy, especially the connection to the Lannisters.

It was also talked about in 3x4 when the Hound is arguing with Thoros. Thoros says, "House Clegane was built upon dead children. I watched them lay Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys before the Iron Throne." But yeah, it should have been talked about in detail before this point, like in the book when Tywin tells Tyrion about the Red Wedding, they then go on to talk about Elia and her childrens' deaths in some length and detail. Even though it would have dragged out the episode length, that scene definitely should have been kept in, instead of the redundant "Sansa is too young to impregnate" issue.

ETA: I just remembered that there's a scene in season 4 where Oberyn and Varys are talking in front of the Iron Throne. I have a strong feeling they will talk about the deaths in detail at that point, since it would be significant for Oberyn to be standing in the very spot that his nephew and niece's corpses were placed.

[TheSpottedCat]

I know a little of metallurgy but but no means an expert.... and Valyrian steel is magic. I always took the meaning of Valyrian steel from the books to mean the critical point was in the mixing of the alloy itself - not in the forging of the blade. A melt down as depicted does not change the alloy so I don't see a problem on that point. Swords are forged by casting a bar then working it into shape, and giving it its edge. Its the properties of the alloy (and magic) that then allow it to maintain that edge and prevent rusting.

The book canon clearly says swords can be reforged without a problem - the concept behind what they showed was probably fine. Also given the weapons experts they have on the payroll I would suspect that the process shown was fairly correct too (except they probable missed a few steps)

Nerdy metallugy warning:

Forging steel isn't as simple as just melting it down. Not all steel is created equal. To get the right properties (based on the structure of the internal molecular lattice) you have to heat the molten metal to specific temperature points, work it until it cools, then reheat so it can be worked further. Alloys make this more complex. Added to this is 'tempering' - plunging it into water.... sometimes its water, sometimes salt water and sometimes oil. The different fluids cool the metal at different rates and result in different molecular structures that provide different properties.

The varying types of steel is well represented in GoT and other shows - the difference between 'steel', 'castle forged steel', 'good steel to make bodkin points' (the Gendry scene) and 'Valyrian steel'. Even the sword 'Dawn' makes very real-world sense (even if it may not actually be practical)

Other shows that make a decent attempt at getting it right are 'Vikings' and 'A Knight's Tale'.

I don't know much (actually almost nothing) about metallurgy, but I know quite a bit about chemistry, which, I suppose, helps to understand metallurgy. The books say that the process of making Valyrian steel involved folding the steel over itself several times, which is what produced the characteristic ripples. That's why I assumed that the actual beating of the steel into shape was also important for the quality of the sword. I actually imagined a Valyrian blacksmith beating the sword into shape while chanting spells. If that's the case, then melting would disturb the folds created by the original blacksmith. I suppose we'll never know...

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

I don't know much (actually almost nothing) about metallurgy, but I know quite a bit about chemistry, which, I suppose, helps to understand metallurgy. The books say that the process of making Valyrian steel involved folding the steel over itself several times, which is what produced the characteristic ripples. That's why I assumed that the actual beating of the steel into shape was also important for the quality of the sword. I actually imagined a Valyrian blacksmith beating the sword into shape while chanting spells. If that's the case, then melting would disturb the folds created by the original blacksmith. I suppose we'll never know...

Yeah anything we try to speculate on just gets trumped by magic.

In the real world folding and laminae to the blade which make it stronger and you can have a lighter blade so similar damage output for the same quality alloy/steel.

In a practical scenario the only way I know of to provide the other properties of Valyrian steel (rust protection and edge maintenance) is through alloying.

[Godsbraid]

One thing I noticed on my second watch, was the (lack of) wind in the "have you ever been to Mereen" -scene.

When the camera is behind them or filming from one side, there is wind. When the camera moves in front of them, the wind is gone. Camera moves back -> wind again!

Not a big complaint, but it did sort of ruin the moment for me :(

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

One thing I noticed on my second watch, was the (lack of) wind in the "have you ever been to Mereen" -scene.

When the camera is behind them or filming from one side, there is wind. When the camera moves in front of them, the wind is gone. Camera moves back -> wind again!

Not a big complaint, but it did sort of ruin the moment for me :(

If that bugs you. don't rewatch the scene where Joffrey casts aside Sansa and the betrothal to Marg is announced. Marg's dress is either dead still or flapping in a stiff breeze depending on the camera angle - and its indoors!

[Cubarey]

"Yeah, not sure how I feel about that. I thought the Thenns were a more of an organised society than the rest of the Wildlings and that is what lead to a certain other marriage that takes place later."

Cannabilism does not preclude organization. They are an organized killing machine that even other Wildings fear. I see nothing in their dietary habits that would preclude one of their young princes from being wedded to a Northern noblewoman.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I will be furious if the show does not fit in Oberyn's wonderful story about his and Elia's visit to Casterly Rock when Tyrion was a baby.

Be furious then, because there is no way that's going to make it.

In my fantasy, GOT would be a 20 episode a season show and with a present/flashback cut-ins along the format of Lost. You can probably have a whole episode based on Oberyn's meeting with Tyrion in the present, with flashback scenes to young Oberyn/Elia/Jaime/Cersei at the Rock, to Oberyn finding out about what happened to Elia and arguing for Dorne to back Viserys, to Oberyn leaving for Dorne and getting advice from Doran. But such a show would be way too costly to make.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Be furious then, because there is no way that's going to make it.

In my fantasy, GOT would be a 20 episode a season show and with a present/flashback cut-ins along the format of Lost. You can probably have a whole episode based on Oberyn's meeting with Tyrion in the present, with flashback scenes to young Oberyn/Elia/Jaime/Cersei at the Rock, to Oberyn finding out about what happened to Elia and arguing for Dorne to back Viserys, to Oberyn leaving for Dorne and getting advice from Doran. But such a show would be way too costly to make.

I'm not sure that they can't fit in the story of Oberyn and Elia going to Casterly Rock. We have the wedding coming (which is supposed to cover a big chunk of the episode, iirc), and then, we'll have Oberyn visiting to offer to defend Tyrion in trial by combat, maybe even the scene with Tyrion 'attending his champion' the morning of the battle, there are plenty of opportunities for this talk to happen.

Even IF it doesn't happen with Oberyn and Tyrion, I wouldn't be surprised if it somehow comes up. I've seen the added scenes with Oberyn and Cersei, there may be a shot at showing Oberyn with a poisoning opportunity on Tywin, not to mention......he could just discuss it with Ellaria instead. Granted, I'd prefer the conversation to be with Tyrion, considering how his father offered him, just to piss Oberyn's mother off, I think, but still........it could happen. It's a big detail, and I suspect, D&D want us to know this about Cersei herself. They will want us to know that Cersei expected, and was promised by Tywin, to marry Rhaegar. With Oberyn already bringing up Rhae-man and his sister in the first epi, I do think we may get the story of the Martells at Casterly Rock really soon.

ETA: I'll be really surprised if they don't give us extra Tyrion and Oberyn scenes, quite frankly. But, and here IS where nitpicking could come it, knowing them, that might not necessarily be a great thing. It's a toss up. Still, I expect more from Oberyn than we saw in the books. It is the one thing they can offer the audience with a non POV character.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Me too. I read things on the viking age a lot. <3

I'm an equal opportunity history geek. I'd be hard pressed to think of a people or place or time that I don't enjoy reading and/or learning about. That reminds, me though, have you checked out the Viking show that's been on The History Channel, or one of them, maybe H2? It's a drama and I've been wondering if it's good?

[Arbor Gold I'm Sold]

* New Daario....nuff said

* Shae. The actor is horrible...just horrible. She and Emila Clarke probably share a trailer and run lines together or something.

* I know this is way too specific but it bothers the heck out of me that Jon has recovered so quickly from his arrow wounds. I mean, com'n...Ygritte put three arrows into him!! Aside from a wince here or there, he's up and about like he had a splinter or something.

I agree the show comes to a halt every scene with Shae. Just horrible. Jon Snow did walk out with a noticeable limp. Not nearly dramatic as the books

I'm an equal opportunity history geek. I'd be hard pressed to think of a people or place or time that I don't enjoy reading and/or learning about. That reminds, me though, have you checked out the Viking show that's been on The History Channel, or one of them, maybe H2? It's a drama and I've been wondering if it's good?

Vikings on History is epic. I'm loving it so far.

[Le Cygne]

I will not miss Shae. <------ understatement

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

If that bugs you. don't rewatch the scene where Joffrey casts aside Sansa and the betrothal to Marg is announced. Marg's dress is either dead still or flapping in a stiff breeze depending on the camera angle - and its indoors!

that reminds of the direwolf finding scene in the first season. they had to film parts of it at different times. so in one part their rain and people look wet and the next everything is dry.

[That Man]

So, while I was riding home in the rain and mud last night I had a few thoughts about Jon's timeline in the book and the current TV series. I'm a little concerned about the nature of his role at Castle Black, given that:

• He's come back from his journey with the wildlings, but they aren't actually hot on his heels.
• Therefore there won't be the small battle in Castle Black itself , with the Thenns. In the TV show they are waiting for Mance's attack, rather than trying to be able to just open the gates for him
• Janos Slynt, Bowen Marsh and the other high officers are already back at Castle Black, given Jon the once over before he has any chance to prove himself in battle, like he does in the books
• Jon will now have no reason to 'hold the wall' during Mance's attack on the gates, as Donal Noye won't have had that responsibility himself, nor give it to him and then die in the tunnels fighting Mag the Mighty
• It's this show of leadership IMO that is a key reason Jon is able to be elected to the role of Lorn Commander. Without this experience he's just a lad who went off and killed The Halfhand and hung around with the Wildlings.
• Therefore Jon's future position as LC will be ridiculous on the basis of the internal narrative causality being played out in the TV show

I think they've butchered the story too much for the sake of added drama and are destroying the internal consistency required to carry on the storyline. Unless of course that storyline isn't very important in the long run, which who can really know.