[Book & Show Spoilers] Season 4 is unsatisfying for me so far

[franko99]

The only aspect of s4 that I am really unhappy with is the Jaime and Cersei storyline. The show is not(so far) showing the progression of Jaime's character that I enjoyed in the books. I am hoping they are able to get his character on the same track. I hated seeing him still pining after Cersei so much, without recognizing her faults as he does in the books. I want to see him spurn her!!!!

In the books, by the time the sept sex happens, Jaime still idealize Cersei, and it's unable to find any flaw in her, so nothing changed in that aspect yet. Though, now in hindsight, agree with all the people who thought it was a mistake to bring Jaime to KL before the PW

[Red Tiger]

To those who complain about the foolish changes from the books:

The Thenns are two dimensional on the show? Here are some two dimensional characters in the books: Tywin, Stannis, Cersei, Roose Bolton, Shae, Varys. The show has made all of these characters three dimensional. (Shae's third dimension is "sulking.")

The show has improved Littlefinger from scheming climber from The Fingers, to scheming climber from Ire-Scot-Ameri-France-Australia.

See if you removed Littlefinger and Stannis from this I might agree.

[jaimecersei]

See if you removed Littlefinger and Stannis from this I might agree.

also cersei because book!cersei>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>show!cersei. book!cersei actually gets shit done

[WinterisAlwaysComing]

also cersei because book!cersei>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>show!cersei. book!cersei actually gets shit done

Didn't book Cersei really just start "getting shit done" in AFFC? What did she really do in ASOS, other than blame Tyrion, have Jalayaya (sp?) beaten (or was that ACoK?), and sleep with the Kettleblacks and Lancel?

Apologies if I'm mistaken.

[Mr Fixit]

How?

Danys season 2 storyline was awful, boring and pointless and disliked by Sullied and Unsullied alike. Tell me what was good about it according to you?

If you really like it, you are the first person I know who does, so that should be an interesting perspective.

I recently re-watched all three seasons and I really think it's not bad. Not saying it's an example of great television, mind you. It's hard to achieve much with only half an hour devoted to this storyline - essentially, Dany's S2 story, when all is said and done, spans perhaps 3/4 of an episode. That's exceedingly paltry. But for what it set out to accomplish, I thought it was time reasonably spent. And as many noted, her book story in ACoK isn't exactly riveting material.

[jaimecersei]

Didn't book Cersei really just start "getting shit done" in AFFC? What did she really do in ASOS, other than blame Tyrion, have Jalayaya (sp?) beaten (or was that ACoK?), and sleep with the Kettleblacks and Lancel?

Apologies if I'm mistaken.

i just really dislike how they've stripped away her agency on the show. book!cersei uses her beauty to seduce men and do things for her. she has consensual sex with jaime. she loves her children but only as extensions of herself. she doesn't pull the "woe is me" card. she's fiery, ambitious, headstrong and ruthless, she's a terrible person who does monstrous things that cannot be excused but her motivations are fascinating and are even understandable to an extent.

show!cersei is raped by jaime, is constantly just moping and pulling the "woe is me" card. is scared of her crazy son, does everything for her children yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

book!cersei is just so much more unique imo. she's an electric character imo, truly a force of nature. the only reason why show!cersei is interesting to watch is because of lena's acting. she manages to bring some spark into D&D's writing.

of course this is only my opinion, but i'm going to stick with it

[Red Tiger]

i just really dislike how they've stripped away her agency on the show. book!cersei uses her beauty to seduce men and do things for her. she has consensual sex with jaime. she loves her children but only as extensions of herself. she doesn't pull the "woe is me" card. she's fiery, ambitious, headstrong and ruthless, she's a terrible person who does monstrous things that cannot be excused but her motivations are fascinating and are even understandable to an extent.

show!cersei is raped by jaime, is constantly just moping and pulling the "woe is me" card. is scared of her crazy son, does everything for her children yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

book!cersei is just so much more unique imo. she's an electric character imo, truly a force of nature. the only reason why show!cersei is interesting to watch is because of lena's acting. she manages to bring some spark into D&D's writing.

of course this is only my opinion, but i'm going to stick with it

She is paranoid, hyper-narcissistic, delusional and batshit crazy, there is nothing otherwordly about that. Not saying show Cersei is better.

[jaimecersei]

She is paranoid, hyper-narcissistic, delusional and batshit crazy, there is nothing otherwordly about that. Not saying show Cersei is better.

i'm not denying that she's a fucking awful human being and is insane, i'm just saying that book!cersei FIGHTS BACK. she doesn't just sit around and do nothing. yeah her crazy ass plans fail a lot of the times and often end up getting her in trouble but she still FIGHTS BACK with tooth and nail and doesn't give up. i think thats an incredibly important part of her character.

show!cersei lacks that aspect which makes her a lot less interesting and complex than book!cersei imo.

[boojam]

If your advice to complainers is to "stop watching the show," then your complaining about the complainers is pretty ridiculous. All you have to do is stop reading the forum, right?

No it's to stop reading this thread.

But others besides me have suggested the 'stop watching' advice that those who post poor analysis badly put... often...

So I can't guarantee I won't post that advice again.

Last post on this thread.

[Aldi_AA]

To those who complain about the foolish changes from the books:

The Thenns are two dimensional on the show? Here are some two dimensional characters in the books: Tywin, Stannis, Cersei, Roose Bolton, Shae, Varys. The show has made all of these characters three dimensional. (Shae's third dimension is "sulking.")

The show has improved Littlefinger from scheming climber from The Fingers, to scheming climber from Ire-Scot-Ameri-France-Australia.

The show ditched the makeup wearing "Bloody Mummers," starring lisping Vargo Hoat. And I think we're all fine with that.

The show is not spending more time with Bran learning to talk to trees. Good. I've already read The Once and Future King. No need for a sequel.

I agree with some complaints. The "chase" of Sansa in season 4 episode 1 was horrible. Shae is annoying, Dany's plotline is plodding. Littlefinger's accent is The Whitman's Sampler of dialects. And I have no idea why they made Jaime rape Cersei, only to say, "It became consensual," which makes me think the producers don't know what "consensual" means.

I'm glad they don't have a Walking Dead style show, where we focus on one character the whole time, and there's some "heavy" lesson we learn each episode, like, "We're ALL just zombies, man. Think about it. Just numb creatures just walking around. Yeah, man..." (Critics of GOT should take care to compare to Walking Dead - Talk about bad dialogue - how many times does THAT show hit you over the head? We had at least 5 "human survivors are no better than zombies" messages just from this past season - Governor staggering along, Bob staggering along, Rick biting the guy, Carl "I'm a monster" and Terminus ppl eating humans.)

If I had to sit through an "all Bran talking to a tree" or "all Dany preaching about slavery" for 55 minutes, I'd dracarys my TV.

I still love the show. To do justice (90% of the time) to such a sweeping world is nothing short of amazing.

You have some valid points but you are way off base with stannis the show has made him less complex they have turned him into a religious zealot who burns infidels, agrees to burn gendry only after one leech and regrets not doing it. Also he threatens davos and they turned him into a puppet of Mel and making her the reason he goes to the wall instead of davos where in the books he uses her and the religion as a means to an end.

[Aldi_AA]

No it's to stop reading this thread.

But others besides me have suggested the 'stop watching' advice that those who post poor analysis badly put... often...

So I can't guarantee I won't post that advice again.

Last post on this thread.

It's still an interesting show despite the annoying changes but your right as soon as they get into stannis unpublished material I'm done cause they messed up his character enough.

[Annara Snow]

To those who complain about the foolish changes from the books:

The Thenns are two dimensional on the show? Here are some two dimensional characters in the books: Tywin, Stannis, Cersei, Roose Bolton, Shae, Varys. The show has made all of these characters three dimensional. (Shae's third dimension is "sulking.")

No, no and no.

The others may be debatable, these ones aren't. Cersei is very three-dimensional and one of the most complex characters in the books, actually more so than her show counterpart. Denying a character agency and power and de-sexualizing them does not make them more "complex".

As for Roose Bolton, I don't see how he has more "dimensions" in the show than he does in the books?

I'll give you Shae, but that's not a good example since that's not making the same character more complex, it's replacing one character with a completely different character with the same name. Both of them have their own merits that can be discussed, and work within the frame of two completely different relationships with the character of Tyrion.

[Good Guy Garlan]

To those who complain about the foolish changes from the books:

The Thenns are two dimensional on the show? Here are some two dimensional characters in the books: Tywin, Stannis, Cersei, Roose Bolton, Shae, Varys. The show has made all of these characters three dimensional. (Shae's third dimension is "sulking.")

I give you Tywin (way more three dimensional in the show), Roose (a caricature in both mediums, but less so in the show), Shae (I kind of miss the golddigger from the books, but I grudgingly accept that they've tried to introduce more shades to her character, with varying degrees of success) and Varys (for the most part)

But Stannis? No way. Stannis is unbelievably under-developed in the show, while in the books he has so many nuances and contradictions and unique traits.

Cersei is...complicated. As much as aFfC tries to turn her into a cartoon, mustache-twirling villain, she's still very, very complex in her paranoia, penis-envy, inherent mysoginy, etc. I'll wait and see what they do with the show version

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

Lotta complaining going on here

[Tangbrand]

Okay, so I've read on WiC.net that fans are concerned about the changes in Jaimes and Cerseis sex scene next to Joffreys dead body... Its good that this is their only concern mentioned on WiC so far. I guess how fans will be concerned after the last episode...

[evita mgfs]

Well, my issue with the television series has been the exclusion of the direwolves. Now, mighty, clever Ghost - the wolf most connected physically to the old gods of the north and the weirwoods, has somehow been subdued and caged. How did the NW traitors accomplish this? Why was Ghost even at Craster's? And when is Jon going to acknowledge his missing wolf?

I also cringed when Bran, Meera, and Hodor are abused by the NW. However, I clearly "see" the producers' vision in doing this: the evil of these men is building, and Bran is witness. When these traitors meet a bloody end - it will be welcomed.

I also agree with the advice many posters gave regarding "keeping an opened mind" and reading other reviews or evaluations out there on the Net and not getting too "stuck" in forum observations alone.

I have liked that the events in the show have debunked many theories and predictions argued over and over on some threads. However, now the argument is canon versus the show - which involves analytical commentary that tries to sustain a belief or idea from the novels that the show has irrefutably contradicted!

[Tangbrand]

Btw... the white walkers we saw in the last scene. Were they House Grumkin, or House Snark? (Or maybe House Karsnark?) :laugh:

[Edd fetch me the boo box]

breaking bad, orphan black, six feet under, the wire, orange is the new black, the sopranos, first four seasons of dexter....really the list goes on and on

Don't like when people say this. If the list goes on and on, then go on and name more. I can throw random higly rated TV show names out too. People are bound to agree. Orange is the new Black is fucking horrendous by the way. Dexter is overrated and always was, first four seasons included. And Breaking Bad...let's just say I'm surprised Brian Cranston isn't in a wheelchair with the way he carried that show.

[Onionworth]

Sorry friend but I disagree. The show is as high quality as it has always been for me. Every episode is 9/10 or higher.

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

And Breaking Bad...let's just say I'm surprised Brian Cranston isn't in a wheelchair with the way he carried that show.

:lol: