Le Cygne Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Lol , it's great. Found some gif. http://7kingdoms.ru/talk/attachments/15562/ Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I said this in another form. I'm ready to forget about it and move on, but it really bothers me that people will think badly about him for something I really believe book Jaime woudl never do. I can move on, it's easy now. That Alton stuff? Never happened. The problem is, they don't see that they are doing anything wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 can't wait till the dvd commentary "we promise you it wasn't rape!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesterX Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The director says at the end it wasn't rape. Yet IMMEDIATELY before the cutaway we see Cersei trying to push Jaime off and him saying "I don't care" and thrusting himself inside her.. It does kind of tick you off like politics. No matter how much everyone knows they're full of shit, they'll just keep spinning their own version. It seems like the world has devolved to a point where, "as long as I don't admit it, it didn't happen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubreed000 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The director says at the end it wasn't rape. Yet IMMEDIATELY before the cutaway we see Cersei trying to push Jaime off and him saying "I don't care" and thrusting himself inside her.. It does kind of tick you off like politics. No matter how much everyone knows they're full of shit, they'll just keep spinning their own version. It seems like the world has devolved to a point where, "as long as I don't admit it, it didn't happen". You nailed it! I rewatched the episode and I paid close attention to that particular scene this time around to see if it becomes consensual in the end. It didn't. Like you said...the final thing that happened is Jaime said "I don't care" and that was it. It was clearly rape. The producers/directors are delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The original shooting script of the scene has been released. Clears up a lot of things too, worth a look... http://imgur.com/gallery/9iCHB/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The original shooting script of the scene has been released. Clears up a lot of things too, worth a look... http://imgur.com/gallery/9iCHB/ Beat me to it! I was just about to post that. More seriously though, and in response to some of the newer posts here: I've made my thoughts clear in this thread, which is that I don't find the show's version to be quite a large deviation from the books, or any sort of alleged "character assassination." I maintain that both scenes are ones of sexual violence and assault. Because this conversation seems to be fairly cyclical in nature, I'll just leave these here, for anyone's who's interested in my complete thoughts on the matter (or doesn't mind reading over 3000 words about it): <snip> <snip> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkfyre Barathyrell Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 what really annoys me the most is that they obviously must have known this change would cause viewers to dislike jaime, but last year they change roose's iconic line to "The Lannisters send their regards" so that people wouldn't misinterpret it and dislike jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet of Patch Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The director says at the end it wasn't rape. Yet IMMEDIATELY before the cutaway we see Cersei trying to push Jaime off and him saying "I don't care" and thrusting himself inside her.. It does kind of tick you off like politics. No matter how much everyone knows they're full of shit, they'll just keep spinning their own version. It seems like the world has devolved to a point where, "as long as I don't admit it, it didn't happen". Yep. This. Based on the director's comments it sounds like he does see it as consensual, which probably will result in !show Cersei having no negative fall out from the event, which has the potential to really make their future interactions hard to understand for non-readers who almost universally saw the scene as rape. I suspect they will wonder how rape leads to scenes as if the rape never happened. Perhaps the post sex discussion about Jaime wanting to take their relationship public and Cersei being terrified of that prospect will happen next episode, but without it the entire point of the scene is lost as far as furthering the book's story line for their relationship. I'm kind of thinking they won't discuss it at all though, which seems like it would be pretty confusing for non-readers who didn't go research what the director's intentions were. I think it could lead to some issues among non-readers, but I think even failing to address it entirely in the next episode would offer some clarification (especially if we get a lot of Cersei being not traumatized). I'm becoming increasingly of the opinion that they shot/edited that scene in the most shocking/controversial/attention-getting way, but stayed true enough to the books that they can still demonstrate that it's just another totally fucked up aspect of Jaime and Cersei's relationship. The more I think about it, the more curious I get about what they'll show in the next couple eps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbidden Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Based on the director's comments it sounds like he does see it as consensual, which probably will result in !show Cersei having no negative fall out from the event. Thats just what I think will happen, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlame Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ok, a few days later, and rereading the book scene, my thoughts changed quite a bit. To me, that scene in the book is an assault too. It's not that Cersei suddenly "gets into it," it's Jaime throwing himself at her despite her protests. If she hadn't "gotten into it," I saw nothing to indicate he would've stopped, and the scene was from his POV and thus skewed. I think it's easier to overlook Jaime's lesser traits because he's so charismatic and does some dashing things. Yes, in both mediums he helps prevent Brienne's rape, and he was disgusted by Rhaella's treatment, but Jaime can be a hypocrite just like a lot of other characters. So while the show was more brutal about it, I don't think it was that different besides the timing/impetus. It the director had kept his yap shut I don't think it would've caused nearly the same shitstorm. He said this in an interview...one can extrapolate he was either trying to cover his ass in response to a hostile reaction, or he's a dude who doesn't understand what rape is...and statistically speaking, a disturbing amount of people do not. As D&D wrote it, they considered it rape, based on the Inside the Episode comment. I haven't seen if they've backpedaled too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 You nailed it! I rewatched the episode and I paid close attention to that particular scene this time around to see if it becomes consensual in the end. It didn't. Like you said...the final thing that happened is Jaime said "I don't care" and that was it. It was clearly rape. The producers/directors are delusional. I'm not a huge fan of book-Jaime; but the one crime I never thought the character would stoop to was rape, especially of someone he had loved for so long. This is a huge deviation from the books. And yes,delusion on the directors' part if they don't realize they filmed a rape rather than consensual sex. Oh well, they've already made Jaime a kinslayer, now he's a rapist. I'll still watch the show; it's entertaining fanfiction, but most of the characters are not the same as the those in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seneti Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The original shooting script of the scene has been released. Clears up a lot of things too, worth a look... http://imgur.com/gallery/9iCHB/ Well... this is either a joke or the worst script I've seen in a long, looooong time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Based on the director's comments it sounds like he does see it as consensual, which probably will result in !show Cersei having no negative fall out from the event, which has the potential to really make their future interactions hard to understand for non-readers who almost universally saw the scene as rape. I suspect they will wonder how rape leads to scenes as if the rape never happened. Perhaps the post sex discussion about Jaime wanting to take their relationship public and Cersei being terrified of that prospect will happen next episode, but without it the entire point of the scene is lost as far as furthering the book's story line for their relationship. I'm kind of thinking they won't discuss it at all though, which seems like it would be pretty confusing for non-readers who didn't go research what the director's intentions were. This is exactly how it will play out. It's clear when the director and cast members think they shot a scene that wasn't a rape...then, that no "rape" is going to be addressed in any future episodes. So, it will be some serious weirdness for the TV audience, who will be wondering about the after effects, only to find there won't be any. LOL. It was a serious mistake by the show, I don't see how that can be denied and is going to cause criticism down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 pretty sure it's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Well... this is either a joke or the worst script I've seen in a long, looooong time... If you can't tell it's a joke then I'm a little worried for you. It's making a comment on the scene as well as the overreaction to the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 ^It's pretty sharp satire of the outrage too, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyJoe Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ok, a few days later, and rereading the book scene, my thoughts changed quite a bit. To me, that scene in the book is an assault too. It's not that Cersei suddenly "gets into it," it's Jaime throwing himself at her despite her protests. If she hadn't "gotten into it," I saw nothing to indicate he would've stopped, and the scene was from his POV and thus skewed. I think it's easier to overlook Jaime's lesser traits because he's so charismatic and does some dashing things. Yes, in both mediums he helps prevent Brienne's rape, and he was disgusted by Rhaella's treatment, but Jaime can be a hypocrite just like a lot of other characters. So while the show was more brutal about it, I don't think it was that different besides the timing/impetus. It the director had kept his yap shut I don't think it would've caused nearly the same shitstorm. He said this in an interview...one can extrapolate he was either trying to cover his ass in response to a hostile reaction, or he's a dude who doesn't understand what rape is...and statistically speaking, a disturbing amount of people do not. As D&D wrote it, they considered it rape, based on the Inside the Episode comment. I haven't seen if they've backpedaled too. :agree: The original shooting script of the scene has been released. Clears up a lot of things too, worth a look... http://imgur.com/gallery/9iCHB/ :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovis alba Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The original shooting script of the scene has been released. Clears up a lot of things too, worth a look... http://imgur.com/gallery/9iCHB/ They have to shoot it and put it on the DVD afterwards. :lmao: Edit: Instead of shaking hands they should go: "Should we just do it now anyway?" "Yeah, why not, Oberyn should not be the only one doing it this season" "Ok, then ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ok, a few days later, and rereading the book scene, my thoughts changed quite a bit. To me, that scene in the book is an assault too. It's not that Cersei suddenly "gets into it," it's Jaime throwing himself at her despite her protests. If she hadn't "gotten into it," I saw nothing to indicate he would've stopped, and the scene was from his POV and thus skewed. I think it's easier to overlook Jaime's lesser traits because he's so charismatic and does some dashing things. Yes, in both mediums he helps prevent Brienne's rape, and he was disgusted by Rhaella's treatment, but Jaime can be a hypocrite just like a lot of other characters. So while the show was more brutal about it, I don't think it was that different besides the timing/impetus. It the director had kept his yap shut I don't think it would've caused nearly the same shitstorm. He said this in an interview...one can extrapolate he was either trying to cover his ass in response to a hostile reaction, or he's a dude who doesn't understand what rape is...and statistically speaking, a disturbing amount of people do not. As D&D wrote it, they considered it rape, based on the Inside the Episode comment. I haven't seen if they've backpedaled too. Agreed, and especially since the show-runners describe the scene as Jaime "forcing himself on her." Graves should have been more careful with his words, but stuck to the fact that both depict sexual assault. At most he could have commented on the TV's version tone may have differed and what that does for the plot and Jaime's character arc. He tried to do just that later in interviews, but "it became consensual" was impossible to overlook by then. The fact is, the television medium has a way of flattening morality. The two scenes aren't that different; we simply aren't in the attacker's mind as we're watching it, so even though it's more disturbing to watch, I think it paints a far clearer picture of the troubling and destructive dynamic between these two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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