Feminism - Now with an extra helping of gender roles

[Lily Valley]

What does that mean? (I honestly have no idea what doing the downward dog means)

Imagine this. Except the exit from my office gives a view from the back. We had a work area off of the hallway.

Not just that I wouldn't, but that I'd never seen nor heard of that kind of thing while in school or afterwords.

Like, some of the stuff you mention with general weirdness or being rude/mean/assholish to teachers and such, but never with that kind of sexist/bigoted edge to it.

I am glad to hear it. Public outbursts are rare and much more difficult to handle. As an instructor and as a human being it is imperative to publicly address publicly displayed rudeness. It sucks. One has to handle it immediately to maintain enough credibility to teach or to maintain classroom management.. The cases I've had to deal with are a one or two on the bullshit scale. Kat is getting sixes and sevens every day.

To support the case of Kat teaching college I have collected the following statistics. Only 5 or 6 of my students work my very last nerve every semester. I have at least 200 students every semester. Twenty to Thirty of my students every semester make me laugh every time I talk to them. So 2.5% of the student population should be deprived of oxygen IMHO and 10-15% are awesome. I cannot say the same thing about the general population of my city or any other place I have ever visited.

i taught for ~6 years, university, and never experienced anything remotely like kat or LV, or first wife, or any number of other pedagogical acquaintances. i find it impossible to believe that the distinction between me and all of those persons aforesaid is anything other than sex.

Dumbass, it's your height.

[TerraPrime]

Studies have shown that female faculty, especially female faculty of color, receive lower student evaluation scores than their other colleagues, due to the assumption of lack of competence in the subject, as well as the negative reaction to the professor asserting her/his authority in the classroom. Essentially, when a white male professor tells a student to sit down, politely, he's enforcing the rules, but when a black female professor does the same thing, she's being antagonistic. The gap is further expanded when the subject touches on social issues such as race and sexism. Since decisions on promotion and pay raises for faculty are tied in with student evaluation scores of their work, it would be difficult to imagine how a female faculty might successfully argue for and seize equal pay raises compared to her male counterparts.

Also, just days ago, there was a study published on the response rate of professors to potential graduate students seeking an interview for a position in their program. The resumes were identical, but assigned different names, categorized as white, black, Asian, and then male and female. Without too much surprise, in most academic disciplines, black names and Asian names, and female names, receive less responses.

This idea that women just need to grab the equal access to resources that are already there is so much utter bullshit that it's like a tootsie roll pop with bullshit in the center and the outside made of crystalized sugary bullshit.

[1918me]

Studies have shown that female faculty, especially female faculty of color, receive lower student evaluation scores than their other colleagues, due to the assumption of lack of competence in the subject, as well as the negative reaction to the professor asserting her/his authority in the classroom. Essentially, when a white male professor tells a student to sit down, politely, he's enforcing the rules, but when a black female professor does the same thing, she's being antagonistic. The gap is further expanded when the subject touches on social issues such as race and sexism. Since decisions on promotion and pay raises for faculty are tied in with student evaluation scores of their work, it would be difficult to imagine how a female faculty might successfully argue for and seize equal pay raises compared to her male counterparts.

Also, just days ago, there was a study published on the response rate of professors to potential graduate students seeking an interview for a position in their program. The resumes were identical, but assigned different names, categorized as white, black, Asian, and then male and female. Without too much surprise, in most academic disciplines, black names and Asian names, and female names, receive less responses.

This idea that women just need to grab the equal access to resources that are already there is so much utter bullshit that it's like a tootsie roll pop with bullshit in the center and the outside made of crystalized sugary bullshit.

I've seen this kind of attitude toward female professors and TAs from some of my classmates, and it honestly makes me sick how condescending some male students can be toward female professors, as though somehow they are more qualified than someone who has had decades more experience, by virtue of the fact that they are male.

[karaddin]

A friend I play dota2 with was getting super mansplained the other night because the guy thought he knew better than her, I imagine it sounds very similar to the above. Was super annoying and offensive.

[Kat]

When I was in grad school I took a few classes that were mixed upper-level undergrad and grad students. I thought I had it bad when my undergrad lab partner kept mansplaining geology things to me. I'd be like, dude, who has their degree already? Which of the two of us took far more physics and math classes? Which of us is getting 100% in this class? I think it finally set for some of them when I was in a class with 9 men and no other women and I was the person who would help out everyone else on the problem sets. I thought going into education (typically imbalanced toward the female side) would be less annoyingly sexist, but it turns out it's annoying in very different ways. Teaching high school is a constant bombardment of things that are mildly offensive, and you have to pick and choose your battles, but in the end, you can reassure yourself that it's high school students and no matter what they say, you're an adult and what they say doesn't really matter except with regard to how people perceive your response.

But it's a lot more overt and there's more of it. Still, I think I prefer that to the veiled sexism that I got when I was in science. It's better than having to sit in a room with a bunch of well-meaning science students who are thoroughly convinced of the evo-psych BS they're spouting off. I'll take anything over that. Getting cussed out by students is fairly inconsequential to me in the long run; I find it more depressing that they hold some of these beliefs to begin with, and I tell these stories not because I'm hurt-- I have a thick skin--but more like I save the particularly stupid rants I get when I delete someone's post on the board, usually right before I ban them. With students, maybe they'll mature and get over themselves one day. With adults, I dunno. I secretly hope everyone who's sent me angry PMs like "your a cunt why'd you lock my thread die bitch" is actually 14 too. :rolleyes:

[Shryke]

When I was in grad school I took a few classes that were mixed upper-level undergrad and grad students. I thought I had it bad when my undergrad lab partner kept mansplaining geology things to me. I'd be like, dude, who has their degree already? Which of the two of us took far more physics and math classes? Which of us is getting 100% in this class? I think it finally set for some of them when I was in a class with 9 men and no other women and I was the person who would help out everyone else on the problem sets. I thought going into education (typically imbalanced toward the female side) would be less annoyingly sexist, but it turns out it's annoying in very different ways. Teaching high school is a constant bombardment of things that are mildly offensive, and you have to pick and choose your battles, but in the end, you can reassure yourself that it's high school students and no matter what they say, you're an adult and what they say doesn't really matter except with regard to how people perceive your response.

But it's a lot more overt and there's more of it. Still, I think I prefer that to the veiled sexism that I got when I was in science. It's better than having to sit in a room with a bunch of well-meaning science students who are thoroughly convinced of the evo-psych BS they're spouting off. I'll take anything over that. Getting cussed out by students is fairly inconsequential to me in the long run; I find it more depressing that they hold some of these beliefs to begin with, and I tell these stories not because I'm hurt-- I have a thick skin--but more like I save the particularly stupid rants I get when I delete someone's post on the board, usually right before I ban them. With students, maybe they'll mature and get over themselves one day. With adults, I dunno. I secretly hope everyone who's sent me angry PMs like "your a cunt why'd you lock my thread die bitch" is actually 14 too. :rolleyes:

Fucking christ....

[Kat]

On a lighter note, the student who cussed me out earlier this week found her evening ruined when she went to a baseball game and of all the places to sit in a stadium for 42,000, she sat right in front of all her teachers and principal who had arranged for a group outing. She was trying to avoid looking at us for 2.5 hours while I welcomed the chance to chat with her parents. :devil:

[Lummel]

... Since decisions on promotion and pay raises for faculty are tied in with student evaluation scores of their work...

that's a clever way to re-enforce the status quo

...With adults, I dunno. I secretly hope everyone who's sent me angry PMs like "your a...

'your' instead of 'you're' too, just to put the icing on the cake

[kungtotte]

Wow Kat, talk about karma :D

[Shryke]

that's a clever way to re-enforce the status quo

Eh, it's not directly so. More a question of how else you are going to evaluate "customer satisfaction" or some similar metric. It possesses the same impetus and the same flaws as that. That it reinforces the status quo in some ways is a byproduct, not the point.

[baxus]

This idea that women just need to grab the equal access to resources that are already there is so much utter bullshit that it's like a tootsie roll pop with bullshit in the center and the outside made of crystalized sugary bullshit.

But how can you doubt the word of Sparrowyn? ;)

I secretly hope everyone who's sent me angry PMs like "your a cunt why'd you lock my thread die bitch" is actually 14 too. :rolleyes:

Some people turn into assholes online.

I put it up to the fact that there are many servers, routers and cables between them and the person they are rude to which prevents them from getting their due for their behavior.

On a lighter note, the student who cussed me out earlier this week found her evening ruined when she went to a baseball game and of all the places to sit in a stadium for 42,000, she sat right in front of all her teachers and principal who had arranged for a group outing. She was trying to avoid looking at us for 2.5 hours while I welcomed the chance to chat with her parents. :devil:

I hope you enjoyed your conversation :lmao:

[sologdin]

Dumbass, it's your height.

you think that's as important as teaching in the nude, with guns, though?

[TrueMetis]

A friend I play dota2 with was getting super mansplained the other night because the guy thought he knew better than her, I imagine it sounds very similar to the above. Was super annoying and offensive.

Are you sure it was mansplaining? Cause a lot of gamers who think they're better than you are just condescending assholes.

[1918me]

Are sure it was mansplaining? Cause a lot of gamers who think they're better than you are just condescending assholes.

Yeah, male or female, I know from experience that there are plenty of people on Dota 2 who think they're unconditionally better than you. Of course, I can't speak to the specifics of this circumstance, but it's not always a gender thing.

[Lummel]

On the subject of misbehaviour by pupils towards women teachers and educators I came across this in relation to the very recent fatal stabbing of woman teacher in the UK:

Schools are not utopian microcosms where sexism and male violence against women and girls are absent. An End Violence Against Women Poll conducted by YouGov found that 71 per cent of all 16-18-year-olds said they hear terms such as “slut” or “slag” used towards girls at schools on a daily basis or a few times a week, and 29 per cent of 16-18-year-old girls identified being subject to unwanted sexual touching at school. Boys are pressurised to exhibit their heterosexuality through misogyny, treating girls as sexual objects and using homophobic taunts against boys who are deemed not to conform to or who do not attain their assigned masculine behaviours. Sexual harassment is not restricted to girls but extended to female teachers with 39 per cent identifying sexist language from pupils directed towards colleagues and 8 per cent having experienced sexual harassment themselves within the last year. Gendered double standards of acceptable behaviours have been internalised, are policed and are used to admonish girls and boys who transgress. Girls and boys have learned that power and authority are linked to successful masculinity. What better way to demonstrate this than to attack the classroom’s key authority figure, the teacher, especially the female teacher?

[1918me]

On the subject of misbehaviour by pupils towards women teachers and educators I came across this in relation to the very recent fatal stabbing of woman teacher in the UK:

Not really all that surprising, but incredibly depressing regardless. And people say we don't need feminism...

[Lyanna Stark]

Are you sure it was mansplaining? Cause a lot of gamers who think they're better than you are just condescending assholes.

While this is true, check with female gamers online how often and willingly we reveal that we're female to strangers. Not very often, and for a very good reason. At best, you get mansplaining, at worst, you get harrassed. Then there are the lovely variations of "lol boobs" and stuff like "do u hav nude pix plz emial", or guys trying to carry favours by white knighting or trying to give you stuff and then get huffy when you don't want that sort of attention.

This doesn't always happen, mind you, but it DOES happen, and none of the above is unkown phenomena to female gamers.

I might add that I have been booted out of a WoW PuG for being female, for instance.

[TrueMetis]

While this is true, check with female gamers online how often and willingly we reveal that we're female to strangers. Not very often, and for a very good reason. At best, you get mansplaining, at worst, you get harrassed. Then there are the lovely variations of "lol boobs" and stuff like "do u hav nude pix plz emial", or guys trying to carry favours by white knighting or trying to give you stuff and then get huffy when you don't want that sort of attention.

This doesn't always happen, mind you, but it DOES happen, and none of the above is unkown phenomena to female gamers.

I might add that I have been booted out of a WoW PuG for being female, for instance.

Oh I'm aware of this, I just wanted to know if there was a specific wording or term used that changed it from regular asshole to sexist asshole.

[Stannisaurus]

On the subject of misbehaviour by pupils towards women teachers and educators I came across this in relation to the very recent fatal stabbing of woman teacher in the UK:

Mhmm... Am i the only one who sees logical inconsistencies and unsupported, and even insulting, conclusions in this article?

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Mhmm... Am i the only one who sees logical inconsistencies and unsupported, and even insulting, conclusions in this article?

If you want to criticize the article, quote the part that you find objectionable, lay out your criticism, and open up a dialogue on it.