New Series High

[sj4iy]

The series has been generally faithful, although they do play favorites in terms of characters they clearly like and those they don't and they've made some changes, albeit subtle to a number of characters....but that doesn't mean there have not been some missteps, plot holes and mistakes that would have been easily avoided with more attention to continuity.

All of which I would absolutely agree with. In my review of season 4, I pointed out what I liked the most and I pointed out missteps that I felt they had made...but missteps are going to happen. It's just a case of whether those missteps detract from one's enjoyment of the show. In my case, they did not. But I don't think that being different from the book means that it is a misstep on the show's part, or that the show is unfaithful to its source material.

[boojam]

LOL such a strawman argument.

But regardless, your point lacks any logic - a lot of the changes involved ADDED material: Brienne vs the Hound, Dany sleeping with Daario early, killing Jojen, giving Jaime extra screentime, etc.

You listed a bunch of things and then some more.

The burden of proof is on you that all that could have done in 10 one hour screenplays, that's no straw-man.

Most and many of the changes were made to compact the narrative, which had to be done.

And many , very likely, have to do with future events that Dave, Dan and Bryan know about , which means trying to been bend some of Geroge's long arcs which have to fit into , probably, only 30 more episodes.

We go bouncing off that adaptation-wall , seems forever now, and always come back to the same point, what's done is done and it's has not changed my personal enjoyment of both the books and the show.

[DioBrando]

You listed a bunch of things and then some more.

The burden of proof is on you that all that could have done in 10 one hour screenplays, that's no straw-man.

Most and many of the changes were made to compact the narrative, which had to be done.

And many , very likely, have to do with future events that Dave, Dan and Bryan know about , which means trying to been bend some of Geroge's long arcs which have to fit into , probably, only 30 more episodes.

We go bouncing off that adaptation-wall , seems forever now, and always come back to the same point, what's done is done and it's has not changed my personal enjoyment of both the books and the show.

Missandei/Grey worm, Craster's Keep were done to compact the narrative?

Both pointless story arcs, whose time could've been spent on better, more important things.

[boojam]

Missandei/Grey worm, Craster's Keep were done to compact the narrative?

Both pointless story arcs, whose time could've been spent on better, more important things.

The ship has sailed.

...and it will sail again.

[protar]

The ship has sailed.

...and it will sail again.

We weren't talking about whether or not that ship has sailed. Sj asked what changes had been made and people answered. If we're not allowed to reflect on the past of the show we may as well shut down this forum.

[Ignorant Bog Woman]

This is why you guys can't have nice things and why I don't come here often. These ridiculous off-topic tangents. You guys realize there are topics created to discuss the show's relationship with the books, right? There are many, in fact; this isn't one of them.

[Beric175]

Craster's keep: Jaime is ironically avenged by Bran, Bran abuses Hodor and thus shines a new light on his newfound powers, foreshadowing of Jojen's death on the show, Jon gets to prove his courage and the whole thing ends in a victoy for the moral people, which is rare on the show but I'll take it.

Misandei/Greyworm: refreshingly the only non-sexual romantic relationship on the show, something which you don't see often even in other tv shows; makes us care for Greyworm before the Sons of the Harpy axe him next season.

Plus, I agree with Ignorant Bog Woman: these weird tangents distract from the thread.

[sj4iy]

Craster's keep: Jaime is ironically avenged by Bran, Bran abuses Hodor and thus shines a new light on his newfound powers, foreshadowing of Jojen's death on the show, Jon gets to prove his courage and the whole thing ends in a victoy for the moral people, which is rare on the show but I'll take it.

Misandei/Greyworm: refreshingly the only non-sexual romantic relationship on the show, something which you don't see often even in other tv shows; makes us care for Greyworm before the Sons of the Harpy axe him next season.

Plus, I agree with Ignorant Bog Woman: these weird tangents distract from the thread.

Agree with both of your points completely.

[PatrickStormborn]

Craster's keep: Jaime is ironically avenged by Bran, Bran abuses Hodor and thus shines a new light on his newfound powers, foreshadowing of Jojen's death on the show, Jon gets to prove his courage and the whole thing ends in a victoy for the moral people, which is rare on the show but I'll take it.

Misandei/Greyworm: refreshingly the only non-sexual romantic relationship on the show, something which you don't see often even in other tv shows; makes us care for Greyworm before the Sons of the Harpy axe him next season.

Plus, I agree with Ignorant Bog Woman: these weird tangents distract from the thread.

Again, this isn't about the quality of the changes... It's merely about the fact that the show is not particularly faithful to the books. Those two were examples of unfaithfulness to the books not making the story any more compact, which was the original defense for why the show made so many changes.

[Relic]

why I don't come here often.

awwww.

[Beric175]

"Different" does not mean "worse" in all cases and I feel that especially here there might be a tendency to forget that from time to time.

[DaveyJoe]

"Different" does not mean "worse" in all cases and I feel that especially here there might be a tendency to forget that from time to time.

The initial reaction to something new is that it sucks and then work your way backwards to come up with the reasons why.

[Mr Fixit]

The initial reaction to something new is that it sucks and then work your way backwards to come up with the reasons why.

This is a great description of prevailing logic here. Truth be told, people will always find something to nitpick and/or hate if they try hard enough.

[HairGrowsBack]

This is a great description of prevailing logic here. Truth be told, people will always find something to nitpick and/or hate if they try hard enough.

I think you're being unfair here. I've always tried to defend the show whenever I could, and so far didn't mind most of the changes. Season 4 has changed that, because they've done what is to me the worst thing you can do when adapting a work of fiction : mischaracterization and even plain OOC-ness.

Plot changes I can deal with , but writing characters like they did with Tyrion or Jaime (to name a few) I can't gloss over. Not only was it botched adaptation, it was also inconsistent within their own show.

[Frey Pies]

^ What was so inconsistent about Jaime? I really don't want to go off on a tangent about the sept-scene here, but, if you're referring to that, that WAS in the books too. Jaime had just come back, and was being rejected by everyone around save for his brother. His love for Cersei was always his weakness, and was the prevailing factor that made him do bad things over and over. His lust and the rejection by everyone caused him to lash out at Cersei. There was tension between them afterwords, but nothing too great, since Cersei and Jaime had time-and-again had vicious and animalistic intercourse as had already been established in the previous seasons.

Again, I'm sorry to go off on a tangent here. Last time, I promise :(

[Cas Stark]

^ What was so inconsistent about Jaime? I really don't want to go off on a tangent about the sept-scene here, but, if you're referring to that, that WAS in the books too. Jaime had just come back, and was being rejected by everyone around save for his brother. His love for Cersei was always his weakness, and was the prevailing factor that made him do bad things over and over. His lust and the rejection by everyone caused him to lash out at Cersei. There was tension between them afterwords, but nothing too great, since Cersei and Jaime had time-and-again had vicious and animalistic intercourse as had already been established in the previous seasons.

Again, I'm sorry to go off on a tangent here. Last time, I promise :(

In the books, he comes back to KL, on his way back to redemption, he has sex with Cersei when they see each other, and thereafter, HE rejects her, because he begins to see her for what she is....he stays on a more or less straight path of seeing things more clearly and working to write 'good' things in the white book.

In the show, he gets to KL, begs her for sex for weeks, while SHE rejects him, at the same time he sorta wants to do good and try and keep his oaths from now on...but then throws the white book on the floor to have sex with her.

Rejecting his cruel, bitch sister is part of his redemption arc...the show tossed this part of his character development aside, at least for season 4.

[Crixus]

They will probably create drama around Tywin's death and Tyrion's escape to cause the rift between the twins now. Who knows? Show Jaime may even confess he freed Tyrion.

[Frey Pies]

In the books, he comes back to KL, on his way back to redemption, he has sex with Cersei when they see each other, and thereafter, HE rejects her, because he begins to see her for what she is....he stays on a more or less straight path of seeing things more clearly and working to write 'good' things in the white book.

In the show, he gets to KL, begs her for sex for weeks, while SHE rejects him, at the same time he sorta wants to do good and try and keep his oaths from now on...but then throws the white book on the floor to have sex with her.

Rejecting his cruel, bitch sister is part of his redemption arc...the show tossed this part of his character development aside, at least for season 4.

All that amounts to is a minor difference. Going by the show, it was pretty clear that this season was testing his moral boundaries- his redemption arc clearly had an effect around others- Jaime/Tyrion conversations were some of the most heartfelt the show had ever done. However, he is still confused around Cersei, which I think will be further explored in Season 5.

[sj4iy]

In the books, he comes back to KL, on his way back to redemption, he has sex with Cersei when they see each other, and thereafter, HE rejects her, because he begins to see her for what she is....he stays on a more or less straight path of seeing things more clearly and working to write 'good' things in the white book.

In the show, he gets to KL, begs her for sex for weeks, while SHE rejects him, at the same time he sorta wants to do good and try and keep his oaths from now on...but then throws the white book on the floor to have sex with her.

Rejecting his cruel, bitch sister is part of his redemption arc...the show tossed this part of his character development aside, at least for season 4.

His arc is different in the show. It doesn't mean they've ruined his character, it just means that it will be a bit different.

[Cas Stark]

His arc is different in the show. It doesn't mean they've ruined his character, it just means that it will be a bit different.

Having him kill his cousin for no reason was much worse than what they did to him this yer since I presume he will reject Cersei next season...but they've certainly been inconsistent with his "redemption".

I don't know that they've ruined anyone's character the closest they have come would be Stannis, we'll have to see if they are capable of showing him in a good light next season, and Robb and Cat who were turned into respectively selfish/dumbass; and, then everyone complains about Tyrion being whitewashed but, um Cersei, hello, I was okay with it originally, but when they had the IB back Stannis for no reason and took that major failure away from her story, I start to wonder exactly how white her hat is going to get.