(Book Spoilers) Speculating on events at the wall

[The Onion Sleight]

I really wonder what Stannis arc will be for season 5.

Imo : Episode 1 - 5 at the Wall.

Episode 6/7/8 : the walk to Winterfell.

9/10 : planning the battle ?

I really wonder too... He was ca. 1/4 of ADWD at the Wall, then came the Mountain Clans and then Deepwood Motte, which we heard through Asha's POVs and his letter to Jon.

I always found the Clans and Deepwood so important :(

Both shows how he follows Jon's advices, how he does actively stuff by himself in the North ("steals a page of Robert's book" as he said), how he EARNS the Northmen's support and how his army grows and grows... If Jon had accepted his offer he'd made Stannis' campaign much easier, but with his refusing he made things way more interesting for him and Stannis, and Stannis shows he's willing to use "detours" and really showing the North has still a king who cares (instead of just writing letters to the lords and insisting on his rights like in the past)...

But I guess (am sure?) they'll cut it both :-(

Well, but if he gets despite this finally more screentime and awesome scenes at the Wall and a phenomenal Death March to Winterfell, I'll accepted this!

I just wonder if he'll sit at The Wall, writing letters to the Northmen about his plans and then they all agree with joining him and show up gradually on his way from the Wall to Winterfell?

(So, no Lyanna Mormont and "... Only one king and his name is STARK!", but then Alysanne Mormont in Stannis' host after Deepwood? No Asha? They'll all simply follow him?)

[King Tommen]

One thing they'll have to do with Stannis at some point is to introduce characters he can bounce off of once he leaves the Wall. Melisandre and Davos (presumably) won't be with him and you can't have scenes with him marching on Winterfell with him being the only recognizable character. I'm assuming they'll find a way to bring Yara into his orbit (although Deepwood Motte seems a little pointless now) but they'll need to have at least one lieutenant or Northern bannerman he can bounce off of.

Personally, I don't think they bother with the hill tribes. They don't have a dominant character that speaks for them really and they just kind of blend into the overall army. I think it's more likely that either a new Karstark or Umber are brought in as allies to show that Stannis has some Northern support. The Umbers will have to be addressed at some point on the show seeing as though they had Osha and Rickon heading to them. The Karstarks have been established fairly well but I'm not sure whether they'll go with the whole "inside man" aspect of the relationship. It's possible but the show may simplify that aspect.

[Arkash]

^ You made me fear Mel will accompany Stannis at Winterfell. Gosh, I hope not ! Her interractions with Jon are among the most important things of Dance.

I think Yara will be thrown in the mix very early next season, but if they were ever to cast a more important knight in Stannis troups, most logical choice would be Justin Massey.

[Hath4]

stannis will probably spend the first few epsiodes at the wall next year. he will deprat some where around epsiode 4, then we will see him when he attacks depwood motte and captures yara, somewhere around epsiode 7. then at the end of the season when he captures theon and farya and closes in on winterfell.

[sati]

One thing they'll have to do with Stannis at some point is to introduce characters he can bounce off of once he leaves the Wall. Melisandre and Davos (presumably) won't be with him and you can't have scenes with him marching on Winterfell with him being the only recognizable character. I'm assuming they'll find a way to bring Yara into his orbit (although Deepwood Motte seems a little pointless now) but they'll need to have at least one lieutenant or Northern bannerman he can bounce off of.

Personally, I don't think they bother with the hill tribes. They don't have a dominant character that speaks for them really and they just kind of blend into the overall army. I think it's more likely that either a new Karstark or Umber are brought in as allies to show that Stannis has some Northern support. The Umbers will have to be addressed at some point on the show seeing as though they had Osha and Rickon heading to them. The Karstarks have been established fairly well but I'm not sure whether they'll go with the whole "inside man" aspect of the relationship. It's possible but the show may simplify that aspect.

I hope they don't just cut the march altogether. Who knows what they intend to do and I have many reasons to be skeptical for them actually giving Stannis more screentime next year than in s4 and s3. Which was apparently less than what such important and brilliant characters as Talisa and Shae got.

stannis will probably spend the first few epsiodes at the wall next year. he will deprat some where around epsiode 4, then we will see him when he attacks depwood motte and captures yara, somewhere around epsiode 7. then at the end of the season when he captures theon and farya and closes in on winterfell.

That sounds really good!

[The Onion Sleight]

stannis will probably spend the first few epsiodes at the wall next year. he will deprat some where around epsiode 4, then we will see him when he attacks depwood motte and captures yara, somewhere around epsiode 7. then at the end of the season when he captures theon and farya and closes in on winterfell.

^ That sounds perfect, Imo!

About Stannis needs company during the march:

I like the difficult dynamic in Stannis' camp. Queen's men, king's men, Stark bannermen, Mountain Clans, Asha and crew; this varied mixture of religions and Southerners / Northerners and different motives - So, conflicts are inevitable, I really liked this in Asha's chapters .

I would like to see at least one of Stannis' Southern knights and one Northman who interact with him more closely; and who are really (secondary) characters on the show with names, personality, aso.

Umbers or Karstarks is a good idea as @King Tommen said, so a house that's already introduced on the show (They will change things like Crowfood&Whoresbane or the Karstark treachery, anyway).

I've said once in another thread that the inclusion of Justin Massey (or even better, Massey and Horpe) could be very funny (and add some comical elements :D)

(They'd have to cast a very handsome actor, of course with beautiful, white blonde hair and long, fancy bangs which always fall over his eye. Someone who fits to this "boyband knight" image b) )

He shouldn't distract attention away from Stannis, but maybe they could cast Richard Horpe, too and give them both, Massey and Horpe, buddy-bitchfight-rivalries :box: (y'know, to make a Death March through a fucking blizzard funnier XD).

I would find this trio humorous, it wouldn't been this heavy "Angel & Devil whispering in the king's right & left ear" (like often with Davos / Mel) much more "The awesome Mannis and his two different, barmy sidekick knights, courting for His Grace's attention".

Showing Stannis dealing with this different men, whether Northman or queen's men, and keeping up the motivation in his camp would show well his leadership abilities and commanding talents (and after 4x02 him having a host, which is a mixture of worshippers of R'hllor + Seven + Old Gods + Drowned God would show his autonomy and independence from Mel).

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

i hope it plays out like this.

open on ygritte's funeral fire. this could just be a couple seconds of jon being sad. not a huge scene. mel comes to jon and says that stan wants to have words. jon meets with stannis who offers winterfell.

sam and aemon discuss the election. slynt is gaining ground. sam thinks that jon might serve.

at the election, sam gives a great pro-jon speech. i think this would be nice. it would still show sam stepping up and doing something brave. tscene ends with jon and stannis looking at each other, understanding that the deal is off.

[nmiller3494]

Do we know that the entirety of episode 9 will be the battle? I could see the battle taking most of the episode, but then wrapping things up towards the end, with Stannis talking to Jon, and probably Ygritte's funeral. That would definitely leave room in episode 10 for the LC election.

[Arkash]

Because they'll most probably want to end on the high note of the victory.

Then, tbh, if the pyre and Stannis proposal were in 9, I wouldnt scream in outrage, cause I really want a good election scene.

[hallam]

Why do people think Stannis is going to appear again this season?

Stannis can't leave Dragonstone until the bank lends him the money. And they won't do that until after Tywin is dead. And that isn't going to happen till the last scene of episode 9.

The series is far behind the books on the Northern plot line. Jon Snow won't be elected Lord Commander until the middle of season 5. His assassination will be the climax of episode 5.9.

Episode 1.9: Ned Stark

Episode 2.9: Battle of the Blackwater

Episode 3.9: Robb Stark

Episode 4.9: Tywin

Episode 5.9: Jon Stark (Robb legitimized him before he died)

Note that it goes Stark-Lannister-Stark-Lannister so 6.9 will likely be some Lannister event. So Jon will get stabbed in 5.9 and the rest of the timing of the plot arc has to work back from that.

The coming battle is the first of the battles with the Wildings. And it is mostly going to show what a force they are and how pressed the Nights Watch are. We haven't seen the main wilding army yet. This is the raiding party from the south. Mance isn't going to try to take castle black from the Wall side.

At this point the producers must surely be anxious to get Tyrion off to Mereen ASAP because the plot line there is getting thin and they need a character at the bottom of the pile to show what is going on. I suspect they skip the Pentos thing with Tyrion entirely.

Episode 10 is going to be Arya abandoning the Hound as his wound festers, refusing to kill him and leaving for Bravos, Bran meeting the children of the forrest and turning into a tree and Slynt sending Jon off to kill Mance so we get a look at the Wilding army before the attack. I think we will also see Cersei making some stupid mistakes like stiffing the bank of Bravos. Why else bring them into the plot so directly if not to have them make a momentous decision in episode 10?

Remember that with the budgets set two years out in advance, the producers can film scenes from season 5 and 6 together.

But also remember that it has been a whole season now and we haven't seen Lady Stoneheart. Either she shows up in episode 4.10 or not at all.

[sati]

Why do people think Stannis is going to appear again this season?

Stannis can't leave Dragonstone until the bank lends him the money. And they won't do that until after Tywin is dead. And that isn't going to happen till the last scene of episode 9.

The series is far behind the books on the Northern plot line. Jon Snow won't be elected Lord Commander until the middle of season 5. His assassination will be the climax of episode 5.9.

Episode 1.9: Ned Stark

Episode 2.9: Battle of the Blackwater

Episode 3.9: Robb Stark

Episode 4.9: Tywin

Episode 5.9: Jon Stark (Robb legitimized him before he died)

Note that it goes Stark-Lannister-Stark-Lannister so 6.9 will likely be some Lannister event. So Jon will get stabbed in 5.9 and the rest of the timing of the plot arc has to work back from that.

The coming battle is the first of the battles with the Wildings. And it is mostly going to show what a force they are and how pressed the Nights Watch are. We haven't seen the main wilding army yet. This is the raiding party from the south. Mance isn't going to try to take castle black from the Wall side.

At this point the producers must surely be anxious to get Tyrion off to Mereen ASAP because the plot line there is getting thin and they need a character at the bottom of the pile to show what is going on. I suspect they skip the Pentos thing with Tyrion entirely.

Episode 10 is going to be Arya abandoning the Hound as his wound festers, refusing to kill him and leaving for Bravos, Bran meeting the children of the forrest and turning into a tree and Slynt sending Jon off to kill Mance so we get a look at the Wilding army before the attack. I think we will also see Cersei making some stupid mistakes like stiffing the bank of Bravos. Why else bring them into the plot so directly if not to have them make a momentous decision in episode 10?

Remember that with the budgets set two years out in advance, the producers can film scenes from season 5 and 6 together.

But also remember that it has been a whole season now and we haven't seen Lady Stoneheart. Either she shows up in episode 4.10 or not at all.

there is so much wrong info in this post I don't know where to begin.

But just one thing - if Stannis doesn't save the Wall in next episode, and we know he will just from promos with the footage of his forces arriving, the Watchers are completely screwed.

[Chebyshov]

Why do people think Stannis is going to appear again this season?

Stannis can't leave Dragonstone until the bank lends him the money. And they won't do that until after Tywin is dead. And that isn't going to happen till the last scene of episode 9.

The series is far behind the books on the Northern plot line. Jon Snow won't be elected Lord Commander until the middle of season 5. His assassination will be the climax of episode 5.9.

Episode 1.9: Ned Stark

Episode 2.9: Battle of the Blackwater

Episode 3.9: Robb Stark

Episode 4.9: Tywin

Episode 5.9: Jon Stark (Robb legitimized him before he died)

Note that it goes Stark-Lannister-Stark-Lannister so 6.9 will likely be some Lannister event. So Jon will get stabbed in 5.9 and the rest of the timing of the plot arc has to work back from that.

The coming battle is the first of the battles with the Wildings. And it is mostly going to show what a force they are and how pressed the Nights Watch are. We haven't seen the main wilding army yet. This is the raiding party from the south. Mance isn't going to try to take castle black from the Wall side.

At this point the producers must surely be anxious to get Tyrion off to Mereen ASAP because the plot line there is getting thin and they need a character at the bottom of the pile to show what is going on. I suspect they skip the Pentos thing with Tyrion entirely.

Episode 10 is going to be Arya abandoning the Hound as his wound festers, refusing to kill him and leaving for Bravos, Bran meeting the children of the forrest and turning into a tree and Slynt sending Jon off to kill Mance so we get a look at the Wilding army before the attack. I think we will also see Cersei making some stupid mistakes like stiffing the bank of Bravos. Why else bring them into the plot so directly if not to have them make a momentous decision in episode 10?

Remember that with the budgets set two years out in advance, the producers can film scenes from season 5 and 6 together.

But also remember that it has been a whole season now and we haven't seen Lady Stoneheart. Either she shows up in episode 4.10 or not at all.

• Stannis was given the money already (Davos gave some to Saan)

We know the two fronts of the battle have been combined in this episode, so Jon treating isn't going to be a separate event

I agree Jon's stabbing will happen at the end of S5, but they can't set up his stabbing if he's only been LC for 4 episodes

We know 4x09 is staying completely at The Wall, so the penultimate OMG moment will be Stannis coming to save the day, similar to Blackwater

Agreed about LS, which is why we'll see her in E10.

[~DarkHorse~]

^{I think he will definitely be elected LC. This is the perfect (and uplifting) conclusion to his Season 4 storyline.}

^{However, I think the Stannis offering Jon winterfell scene might be moved forward to next season. Jon knows Rickon and Bran are alive and Davos later has to search for Rickon so I think they will tie this together- Stannis (with the help of Jon) sends Davos to find Rickon, not Manderly. Perhaps, Jon will suggest Davos searches for him at White Harbor and Wyman will then give Davos leads to Skagos.}

^{This would build up the relationship between Stannis and Jon (maybe a Davos and Jon scene) and explain why Jon had to know Rickon and Bran are alive for the show!plot. The Season finale will already be cramped so it makes sense for this scene to be next season, where it wont be rushed.}

^{Or maybe the offer will be suggested, Jon will tell Stannis that Rickon is alive but the 'find Rickon' plan will be introduced in episode 1 next season.}

[Chebyshov]

^Show!Jon only knows about Bran though, not Rickon. I don't think it occurred to Show!Sam to ask Bran where his little brother was.

[~DarkHorse~]

^Show!Jon only knows about Bran though, not Rickon. I don't think it occurred to Show!Sam to ask Bran where his little brother was.

Good Point

That could be quite the plot hole. I wonder why Sam or Jon never asked about Rickon? I hate how all the Stark stuff is mentioned off screen, it just comes across as weak with too many loose ends. I'm still wondering if that Will scene happened but highly doubt it.

However, they might still know Rickon is alive too, I can't see him not being suspicious. Bran might have mentioned Rickon to Sam.

[Rashtibram]

Why do people think Stannis is going to appear again this season?

Stannis can't leave Dragonstone until the bank lends him the money. And they won't do that until after Tywin is dead. And that isn't going to happen till the last scene of episode 9.

The series is far behind the books on the Northern plot line. Jon Snow won't be elected Lord Commander until the middle of season 5. His assassination will be the climax of episode 5.9.

Episode 1.9: Ned Stark

Episode 2.9: Battle of the Blackwater

Episode 3.9: Robb Stark

Episode 4.9: Tywin

Episode 5.9: Jon Stark (Robb legitimized him before he died)

Note that it goes Stark-Lannister-Stark-Lannister so 6.9 will likely be some Lannister event. So Jon will get stabbed in 5.9 and the rest of the timing of the plot arc has to work back from that.

The coming battle is the first of the battles with the Wildings. And it is mostly going to show what a force they are and how pressed the Nights Watch are. We haven't seen the main wilding army yet. This is the raiding party from the south. Mance isn't going to try to take castle black from the Wall side.

At this point the producers must surely be anxious to get Tyrion off to Mereen ASAP because the plot line there is getting thin and they need a character at the bottom of the pile to show what is going on. I suspect they skip the Pentos thing with Tyrion entirely.

Episode 10 is going to be Arya abandoning the Hound as his wound festers, refusing to kill him and leaving for Bravos, Bran meeting the children of the forrest and turning into a tree and Slynt sending Jon off to kill Mance so we get a look at the Wilding army before the attack. I think we will also see Cersei making some stupid mistakes like stiffing the bank of Bravos. Why else bring them into the plot so directly if not to have them make a momentous decision in episode 10?

Remember that with the budgets set two years out in advance, the producers can film scenes from season 5 and 6 together.

But also remember that it has been a whole season now and we haven't seen Lady Stoneheart. Either she shows up in episode 4.10 or not at all.

You've been posting a variation of this argument all over the forums, and there really isn't any more we can say beyond the fact that you're just plain wrong. First of all, in the books, Cersei snubs the Iron Bank well into AFFC; a long time after Stannis' arrival at Castle Black. Secondly, Stannis has already been given funding by the IB (as was made abundantly clear in episode 4x06). Thirdly, we have already seen a whole lot of footage of Stannis' charge; I think we got a different shot in every new trailer, actually. It's definitely happening this season. Additionally, Neil Marshall tells us explicitly in this video that both battles (the raid from the south and the siege from the north) will be happening simultaneously in episode nine (this was actually confirmed months previously in a number of different interviews with a variety of cast members, writers and producers). If you look at the promo, recap and summary there is no indication that any other storyline will be taking place in this episode, and if you add on top of this the fact that the summary for 4x10 describes "Tyrion confronting his Father," your entire argument collapses in on itself.

[Peter George Stewart]

Lots of good stuff, just a couple of things I think that haven't been mentioned.

Given the title of the episode ("The Children"), I think we will see some Bran action in relation to the Children of the Forest, and I think we'll also see Dany's dragon (forget which one it is) killing the boy, and maybe the father bringing his body to Dany. The main "children" reference will of course be to Tyrion/Tywin.

I'm inclined to think they'll leave the LC election and Winterfell/Jon thing till next season, even though there are good reasons to have them in this episode, as people have mentioned. I'd be very pleased if those were in, but I don't think they'll be in. I think Stannis will certainly appear at the end of ep 9 as the DEM, but all we'll see of the aftermath of the battle in ep 10 will be Ygritte's pyre and some kind of feelgood victory celebration, and maybe some Jon/Stannis/Davos and Jon/Mel interaction.

No way Stoneheart will be in this episode - they're going to leave that to the beginning of the next season as a big opening shocker, 1st or 2nd episode.

[sati]

Lots of good stuff, just a couple of things I think that haven't been mentioned.

Given the title of the episode ("The Children"), I think we will see some Bran action in relation to the Children of the Forest, and I think we'll also see Dany's dragon (forget which one it is) killing the boy, and maybe the father bringing his body to Dany. The main "children" reference will of course be to Tyrion/Tywin.

I'm inclined to think they'll leave the LC election and Winterfell/Jon thing till next season, even though there are good reasons to have them in this episode, as people have mentioned. I'd be very pleased if those were in, but I don't think they'll be in. I think Stannis will certainly appear at the end of ep 9 as the DEM, but all we'll see of the aftermath of the battle in ep 10 will be Ygritte's pyre and some kind of feelgood victory celebration, and maybe some Jon/Stannis/Davos and Jon/Mel interaction.

No way Stoneheart will be in this episode - they're going to leave that to the beginning of the next season as a big opening shocker, 1st or 2nd episode.

Who in their right mind would use season ending moment on some random episode in season 5?

[Talking Hodor]

If Stannis offers Winterfell to Jon, I don't see him knowing Bran's alive as making a difference. Jon is older, and once legitimized, his claim is the best. He'd refuse for the same reasons he refused in the books - he won't betray his old gods for Melisandre's insanity.

[Peter George Stewart]

Who in their right mind would use season ending moment on some random episode in season 5?

Stoneheart has become a bit of a fan favourite, but it's not actually all that important in the books or for the general plot (at least so far in the books).

To end s04e10 on that would be a surprise, sure, but it would lead nowhere being at the end of a season, just a kind of "whu?"; on the other hand, somewhere near the beginning of next season it would be a good shocker to save up for the end of one of the duller types of episodes that just has general plot advancement stuff going on.

More likely, s04e10 will end with Tywin/Tyrion, offering a catharsis to offset the "why do only good people die in this show?" notion (especially after s04e08 that's just been). The show's always on the edge with that being a cliche in the public mind, and they did a good job of pulling back from it with Joffrey's death, but they need to hammer it home with Tywin/Tyrion - bookending the season, so to speak.