(Book Spoilers) Speculating on events at the wall

[Beric175]

Stannis and Jon meet and Stannis tells Mel to drop her idea of burning Shireen permanently 'cause he's not having it.

[Addam of Hull]

Considering Jon would be a legitimized bastard no his claim would not be best--legally speaking with Jon knowing Bran is alive (and likely suspecting Rickon would be too). Legitimized bastards go to the back of the line after the legitimate daughters' sons in typical male primogenic inheritances. It doesn't matter if the bastard is older or younger than the rest of the legitimate children legally speaking, a legitimized bastard still is at the end of the line.

The only two exceptions to this in Westeros is in Dorne with their non-gender specific primogenic inheritance laws.

And under Targaryen interitance laws for the Iron Throne which put bastard sons ahead of legitimate daughters & their male offspring in an attempt to keep Targ women off the throne ever since the Dance of Dragons.

Nope.

Legitimized bastards coming after trueborn sons and daughters isn't set in stone in Westeros (see this SSM) so it's far more flexible than you suggest. Particularly because neither Bran nor Rickon is old enough to lead men to war which is fairy necessary for the North at the moment.

[OnlyOne]

^This. And especially the Stannis trolling part :bowdown:

Yes!!!!

[Parteek]

I hope the conversation between Jon and Stannis is included, the one in which Stannis say, "If not for my Hand, I might not have come at all. Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.”

[sati]

I hope the conversation between Jon and Stannis is included, the one in which Stannis say, "If not for my Hand, I might not have come at all. Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.”

http://littlesati.tumblr.com/post/87115784923/deisegal-lobsteredgauntlet-so-im-guessing - sorry I had to link that :)

[AzorAhai42]

Well, now considering the amount of battling that still has to happen at the wall in the finale, maybe we won't have time for the LC election afterall.

[Konradsmith]

This thread just became a lot more relevant.

[Chebyshov]

This thread just became a lot more relevant.

Understatement of the season. They'll need 15 minutes to wrap this up?

[iheartseverus]

This thread just became a lot more relevant.

QFT. Did we get trolled by HBO, all of us dead certain Stannis was in this episode? (I feel bad for Sati, who stayed up all night just to see Stannis and has to go to work in a couple hours. Yowsa, long rough day tomorrow!) I did see a post, here or on another board, I don't remember, from someone who just got his DVDs and saw that Ep. 10 heralded 'an unexpected arrival' at the Wall.

SO, given that Stannis is NEXT episode, how does everybody see the sequence going down?

[Zombies That Were Promised]

I think Jon/Mance/Stannis/Melisandre will be all done in the first 15 minutes, given how tonight ended.

[Benjaario Starkharis]

I think Jon will talk with Mance for like four minutes, then, when things start to get ugly for him, Stannis arrives in another two minutes long battle scene, maybe showing his army suffering some losses as well. Later on the episode, fake!Mance is burned in a two minute long scene and then Stannis offers Jon a Stark name and Winterfell in a three minute long scene, ending Jon's arc on a cliffhanger, leaving the non-readers wondering if he accepts or refuses until next season (the Lord Commander plotline would then be starting next season, with Jon becoming LC by episode 3 or 4 after some clashes with Slynt). That would make some 11 or 12 minutes of Jon and Stannis in the finale. Out of 66 minutes, I think it would be appropriate and would not feel rushed.

[sati]

QFT. Did we get trolled by HBO, all of us dead certain Stannis was in this episode? (I feel bad for Sati, who stayed up all night just to see Stannis and has to go to work in a couple hours. Yowsa, long rough day tomorrow!) I did see a post, here or on another board, I don't remember, from someone who just got his DVDs and saw that Ep. 10 heralded 'an unexpected arrival' at the Wall.

SO, given that Stannis is NEXT episode, how does everybody see the sequence going down?

Also - they completely broke my heart. I'm not even excited for the finale anymore.

[Arkash]

(the Lord Commander plotline would then be starting next season, with Jon becoming LC by episode 3 or 4 after some clashes with Slynt).

I hope not !

Next season, once Lord Commander, Jon has to :

- Send Sam, Gilly and Aemon away.

- Meetings with Stannis and Melisandre.

- All his conversations with Melisandre.

- Check the ressources of the Wall (although easily done in one short scene).

And most of all, and that will take most of the season (apart from Melisandre and later Selyse) :

- Treat with the wildlings to let them through.

- Collect the payments and hostages.

- Opens up new castles along the Wall and manages to man them.

- Takes care of the wildlings who seeked refuge at Hard Home.

- Receiving news of Winterfell and being betrayed by it.

Season 5 is gonna be heavy for Jon, I really hoped the election was taking place in the finale !

[Zombies That Were Promised]

Jon is now Lord Commander in everything but name, it could take only just one short scene to officially title him, and just skip this whole 'election' business altogether.

[NightStark]

Jon is now Lord Commander in everything but name, it could take only just one short scene to officially title him, and just skip this whole 'election' business altogether.

They've already brought up the topic of the election a few episodes ago so they can't just skip it now.

[Valonqar_]

Wait, what if they put a massive troll on us and there will be two consecutive only Wall episodes. that way we even get LC election.

[Guard of the Rainking]

QFT. Did we get trolled by HBO, all of us dead certain Stannis was in this episode? (I feel bad for Sati, who stayed up all night just to see Stannis and has to go to work in a couple hours. Yowsa, long rough day tomorrow!) I did see a post, here or on another board, I don't remember, from someone who just got his DVDs and saw that Ep. 10 heralded 'an unexpected arrival' at the Wall.

SO, given that Stannis is NEXT episode, how does everybody see the sequence going down?

Given that the episode 10 is 10 minutes longer than other episodes I think it'll only be fair if those 10 minutes are dedicated to stuff that should have happened in episode 9. It appears that the Bolton and the Vale storylines are already spent for this year. Also Arya's and Brienne's storylines are going to merge. So they have somewhat more time to give Stannis scenes.

I'm happy if they do the Stannis, Stannis, STANNIS scene justice, have a scene of Stannis' forces getting comfy in Castle Black (have his banner atop the King's Tower show his men guarding places...) and have the Winterfell offer scene.

[ovis alba]

I now almost suspect the wall will be wrapped up already with Stannis coming to the rescue and then there is maybe gonna be a scene that sort of mirrors the Bolton one, where Stannis is offering Jon Winterfell, but that's probably it. The Lord Commander stuff and all that follows is probably for next season.

[Guard of the Rainking]

I just realized something. Remember when Alex Graves talked about a CGI heavy battle in episode 10. In the preview it appears that Bran and the company are not fighting the Others so that must mean that the battle is going to Stannis vs Wildlings.

Here's the quote:

"there’s a battle in the tenth episode that is so VFX heavy and so complex, even on a feature level, that won’t be done until June right before it airs.”

[stannisismyking]

I just realized something. Remember when Alex Graves talked about a CGI heavy battle in episode 10. In the preview it appears that Bran and the company are not fighting the Others so that must mean that the battle is going to Stannis vs Wildlings.

Here's the quote:

"there’s a battle in the tenth episode that is so VFX heavy and so complex, even on a feature level, that won’t be done until June right before it airs.”

Yeah those comments baffled me at first because I got trolled as hard as anyone for my beloved king's arrival and assumed all the Wall battles would be done and dusted by roll of credits 4.09. And my heart nearly broke (first when they didn't appear in the credits but I clung to a vain hope that they might have arranged to keep them out of the credits). I'm coming out of the fog now! I'm trying to think positive!

I just re-read the Jon treating with Mance part this morning to remind myself of what goes down with that battle and there are mammoths involved so yeah that could be tricksy CGI because they're going up against the knights.

And you know this show doesn't like to use horses so it's Kind of a Big Deal that there will be some used in the charge.