Why would the Highlords of Westeros declare for Jon?

[KING-OF-WINTERFELL]

Because... no got nothing.

I'd sooner see them behead him for desserting than to declare for him. Or at least that's what Ned would do.

If he was legitimate then he wont be deserting he swore as jon snow not jon targaryan.

[SkaggCannibal]

At this point they would follow anyone willing to take on the lannisters and freys. Besides what tullys are left edmure not exactly his fathers son is he? In recent memory they remember the northen king of the trident who saved them and bought them a bunch of victories, not a tully.

Say what you will about Edmure, but he was good friends with a lot of the riverlords and/or their heirs.

[KING-OF-WINTERFELL]

1) Edmure.

2) Nah. If SR dies, the Vale goes to Harry who has no connection to the North and the Riverlands.

1. Really care to rethink that one

except he major banner men are cousins to the starks Royce and redforts among others

[SkaggCannibal]

If he was legitimate then he wont be deserting he swore as jon snow not jon targaryan.

That's your interpretation of the vow, not the one of the Lords of Westeros.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Maybe because he will be a new face and people will believe that if they follow him they will be able to manipulate him.

Maybe because he will gather people around him because of what he will do.

Maybe because it will be the smallfolk those who will follow him forcing the Lords to do the same.

But my personal fav is that the people will give him the throne because of what he will do and Jon 2.0 will make new lords if anyone *moves* against him.

[KING-OF-WINTERFELL]

Say what you will about Edmure, but he was good friends with a lot of the riverlords and/or their heirs.

1. A liege lord cannot be friends with his banner men, whats if he were to play favourites then what? division and civil war.

[David Selig]

If he was legitimate then he wont be deserting he swore as jon snow not jon targaryan.

This is a really weak argument. He swore as himself, never said a name.

Besides, what if every criminal sent there uses the same logic. "Hey, I swore as Jim, but actually my name is George, this means I am free to go, so long guys.".

At this point they would follow anyone willing to take on the lannisters and freys. Besides what tullys are left edmure not exactly his fathers son is he? In recent memory they remember the northen king of the trident who saved them and bought them a bunch of victories, not a tully.

The same norhtern king who lead them into one of the biggest disasters for the Riverlords ever - the RW and lost the war convincingly at the end?

[The Bittersteel]

The Night's Watch won't be needed after the Others are dealt with in some way so that'll free him up for the throne. I can see him being viewed as a viable choice by the high lords if they learn of his parentage, particularly if Stannis and Daenerys are dead by this stage which I think is more than likely and if he's displayed leadership qualities and proved himself fighting the Others.

[Salinda]

The Night's Watch won't be needed after the Others are dealt with in some way so that'll free him up for the throne. I can see him being viewed as a viable choice by the high lords if they learn of his parentage, particularly if Stannis and Daenerys are dead by this stage which I think is more than likely and if he's displayed leadership qualities and proved himself fighting the Others.

A lot of problems arise from his parentage though. Some lords are less than loyal to the Targaryens. Others won't be swayed by any amount of proof as to Jon's parentage. Some will proclaim him bastard since there is no proof Rhaegar married Lyanna. Others will be incensed by that very insinuation (the Martells for example). Some others will see polygamy as invalid etc.

[SkaggCannibal]

1. A liege lord cannot be friends with his banner men, whats if he were to play favourites then what? division and civil war.

If Edmure wants to be restored as Lord of the Riverlands, he'll need their support. That's easier when they like him. Picking favorites doesn't automatically mean civil war, divide and conquer is actually a great strategy.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

A liege lord cannot be friends with his banner men, whats if he were to play favourites then what? division and civil war.

A king playing favorites doesn't exactly make breaking news. I think it's what more or less every real king in the history of the world did, and quite a lot fictional ones, too (well, maybe not Aragorn or Random of Amber). That's the natural state of things.

[The Bittersteel]

A lot of problems arise from his parentage though. Some lords are less than loyal to the Targaryens. Others won't be swayed by any amount of proof as to Jon's parentage. Some will proclaim him bastard since there is no proof Rhaegar married Lyanna. Others will be incensed by that very insinuation (the Martells for example). Some others will see polygamy as invalid etc.

True but if he demonstrates ability with the other two gone he might be seen as the best compromise to put on the throne if Westeros wishes to stay as one kingdom. I think the fact that he isn't really a 'Targaryen' as such (different culture, beliefs, appearance) but still has their blood would work in his favor. As would his Stark heritage, as that family has been an important part of Westeros politics for thousands of years and carries almost as much weight. Obviously it could offend the Martells but monarchs in Westeros have come from polygamous unions before.

[chrisdaw]

I don't believe they all will.

North of Trident will all be Jon's, a great host of wargs, giants, grumpkins and Snarks, everything else South will be Tyrion's, and they'll meet in the middle, another pact at the God's Eye, First Men and Andal this time, formed to fight against a common enemy.

[butterbumps!]

I would bet a lot of money that IF Jon ends up king, it will be precisely because he is "Jon Snow" and not claiming the throne via any Targ lineage.

Many of the "old guard" highlords have been taken out of the game, or probably will be. He'd have to win over the new generation of lords and ladies that's been cropping up. Some of them (Asha, Arianne, potentially the Tyrells, to say nothing of all the newly made lords who have been upjumped) might be inclined toward a king willing to break with certain traditions.

Euron, Dany, Aegon and god knows what other contenders for the throne look pretty geared to be pitched against each other, further eliminating rivals. How much resistance will really be left after this next wave of civil war, not to mention, ice apocalypse?

[sj4iy]

But would the nobles be grateful enough to swear fealty to Jon? And doesn't Jon not want to be King? He refused Winterfell after all.

Gratefulness has nothing to do with it. The Nobles will pledge fealty to whomever they think will be the best ruler for them and their interests. Also, Jon wanted Winterfell badly, but refused it because of the stipulations put on the offer. He couldn't tear out the weirwood, because Winterfell belongs to the old gods.

Was he loved by all?

He was respected as a great fighter and was widely believed to be a man of great learning and intelligence. His only real blemish is running off with Lyanna, but it's obvious that people don't have the entire story for that, so we'd have to see what really did happen.

[Skore]

I can't see why they would.

1. He is a BASTARD. And in Westeros noble circles that basically means second class human, someone that may serve in a Lord's house but not someone to lead.

2. How would the truth of his non-bastardness be proven after all this time with both his parents presumably dead.

3. There's still the NW vows to be considered, and I think people on the forums are too busy looking for the "legal loophole" that will allow his apparent manifest destiny, rather than seeing it from the POV of some random lord in Dorne or the Vale or wherever thinking to themselves "if he's alive now, he cant really have died. Tales of some Red Witch bringing him back are just lies of convenience".

In short, I don't think Jon dies at the end of ADWD but I DO think he will make some grand sacrifice in the final book to stop the threat of the Others, possibly along with Daenarys and the 3rd head of the dragon and that all 3 perish saving the 7 Kingdoms, which does I suppose fit in with the "bittersweet" ending GRRM has hinted at,

[sj4iy]

I can't see why they would.

1. He is a BASTARD. And in Westeros noble circles that basically means second class human, someone that may serve in a Lord's house but not someone to lead.

2. How would the truth of his non-bastardness be proven after all this time with both his parents presumably dead.

Those go hand in hand. If Jon were Rhaegar's legitimate son, then I would be shocked if there weren't something to physically prove it.

3. There's still the NW vows to be considered, and I think people on the forums are too busy looking for the "legal loophole" that will allow his apparent manifest destiny, rather than seeing it from the POV of some random lord in Dorne or the Vale or wherever thinking to themselves "if he's alive now, he cant really have died. Tales of some Red Witch bringing him back are just lies of convenience".

I think it's more that I can't see the Night's Watch existing for much longer as it does now...it's a penal colony and no longer has the support of the realm...it can't survive without a major overhaul. And will it even be necessary after the war with the Others? Will there even be a Wall? Who knows, there's a lot if things that could happen.

In short, I don't think Jon dies at the end of ADWD but I DO think he will make some grand sacrifice in the final book to stop the threat of the Others, possibly along with Daenarys and the 3rd head of the dragon and that all 3 perish saving the 7 Kingdoms, which does I suppose fit in with the "bittersweet" ending GRRM has hinted at,

This wouldn't shock me, either.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I'm really curious about this. I mean, the North makes sense. Robb named Jon his heir. Maybe the Riverlands too, although I'm not sure how they'd feel about following Ned Starks bastard since it's an insult to House Tully. But why the rest of Westeros? None of them have a connection to Jon and if the truth about his birth comes out, the biggest Targ loyalists (the Martells) would be against him.

Well if Robb named Jon his heir he had to have legitimized him so he wouldn't be a bastard anymore. I don't think it would be an insult to the Tully's anyway. Bastards are pretty common in Westeros, what was uncommon was for Ned to bring Jon home & raise him amongst his own children.

As for the rest of Westeros I don't think they would declare for him he would have to fight for the IT

[butterbumps!]

I can't see why they would.

1. He is a BASTARD. And in Westeros noble circles that basically means second class human, someone that may serve in a Lord's house but not someone to lead.

2. How would the truth of his non-bastardness be proven after all this time with both his parents presumably dead.

3. There's still the NW vows to be considered, and I think people on the forums are too busy looking for the "legal loophole" that will allow his apparent manifest destiny, rather than seeing it from the POV of some random lord in Dorne or the Vale or wherever thinking to themselves "if he's alive now, he cant really have died. Tales of some Red Witch bringing him back are just lies of convenience".

In short, I don't think Jon dies at the end of ADWD but I DO think he will make some grand sacrifice in the final book to stop the threat of the Others, possibly along with Daenarys and the 3rd head of the dragon and that all 3 perish saving the 7 Kingdoms, which does I suppose fit in with the "bittersweet" ending GRRM has hinted at,

1. What if the fact that he is a bastard is the selling point to them? The Targs were accepted because they were outsiders to the major families of power. "Snow" represents someone "with no name," and therefore, also outside of the existing balance of power they might accept to rule over them. Further, it's not just nobles of old Houses a king must win in this; the smallfolk have been increasingly threatening to stop answering to all these lords playing the game at their expense. Without willing smallfolk, these lords have no power.

2. I think the point is, it wouldn't be proven. Looking at this from Jon's own character trajectory, it's highly improbable that he'd identity as a Targ once he knows R+L. He's Jon Snow, and has been dedicating himself to proving that bastards as as worthy as any trueborn son.

3. What if the NW became annexed as the Royal Army?

ETA: I hasten to add I'm not sold on Jon's becoming king, but depending on how one envisions the series to end (i.e. before or after rivals are neutralized, before or after Others defeat, is winter still the season?), there's a plausible case to be made for Jon.

[Barty]

They dont need to. If Jon takes the IT - and thats a big if(since I believe it wont exist at the end) then it will be by strength of arms.

As it stands currently he does not want to be King or Lord however if something happens to change that and he decides to leave the NW and become King himself then the North will rally to him and so will the Riverlords(currently they are being ruled by the Freys and I think if Jon swoops down from the North and burns down the Twins then the riverlords will happily take him as King just like they took Robb - not to mention the will which they signed).

I'm pretty sure Sansa can bring the Vale around, especially if she turns into LF 2.0(seems likely). With the strength of 3 Kingdoms at his back and the south weakened after dealing with Euron/Aegon/Danny Jon might easily take them on.

Of course there is a crackpot theory that Jon will lead the Others against Danny and her dragons(the battle she sees in her dream) and whoever wins gets the IT.