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I wanted to quote a previous post but really can't find it... the post was about

or something similar. Unfortunately, as much as I really want to watch this (and even enjoy it) I honestly believe that we are not going to have such a moment. For the time being, in the tv show every "good" or even just "debating" point Jon has (or every other character in the Wall) just has to be changed....

they're really f&()_*ing this arc (as well as Bran's)... and I don't think it's due to lack of screentime or cast....

so they will probably don't go along the beheading too :S

What are you talking about? Jon just shot Tormund in the leg and kicked him in the gut, a man who he was supposed to be aligned with once. Jon is much more outwardly outspoken against his superiors in the show. If anything it will be less surprising on the show than it was in the book. Slynt is also way more of a bitch on the show, and they would never shy from a beheading. If you're going to complain at least try to root it in some reality or logic.

The Wildlings must see Mance dead...but they will probably change alot of things at the wall, so we can only guess

Having him captured and defeated could work. All the free folk want is to get behind the wall and to safety, and while "killing" Mance does work better, it also creates more tension between the free folk and Stannis/NW. It's just way too campy to show them burning Mance on screen and then suddenly have him show up in a scene with Melissandre and say "Haha, you fooled you!" This isn't Scooby Doo.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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They're probably going to skip that whole thing and just negotiate with Tormund rather than have Val go and fetch him (I'm guessing Val is cut). They might just altogether skip the glamour thing since it's kind of silly anyways, and on screen it would look really foolish if Mance just turns up after being burned and says "Oh yeh that wasn't me that burned lolz was a trick. Gotcha!"

LOL I do kinda agree with this. There's a bit too much glamouring and resurrection all over the place as the books continue. Granted, on one hand it's provided some interesting dilemmas, but on the other hand.........it's getting cheesy. Also, it contributes to way too much crackpottery as we wait for the books.

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the preview shows that Jon Snow and the Wall will be saved ... :lmao:

The preview isn't the episode. And we only know what we are seeing because we know the story. My family who hasn't read it? They all think Jon Snow is going to die or something very bad is going to happen to him and the Wall. They don't know what's coming, and you have to look at the show from the POV of not having read the books to get it.

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I wanted to quote a previous post but really can't find it... the post was about

or something similar. Unfortunately, as much as I really want to watch this (and even enjoy it) I honestly believe that we are not going to have such a moment. For the time being, in the tv show every "good" or even just "debating" point Jon has (or every other character in the Wall) just has to be changed....

they're really f&()_*ing this arc (as well as Bran's)... and I don't think it's due to lack of screentime or cast....

so they will probably don't go along the beheading too :S

Honestly, I think his arc is better on the show than in the book because he's more believable as a leader, and it's more believable that he will get elected LC.

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I feel geniunely sorry for everybody who rated these ep below 8, or who was somehow strongly dissapointed.



Every week I look forward next ep and every week I get top quality show which I can enjoy (with some small or bigger nitpicks here or there), and sometimes I get something extraordinary like this week. And apparently many of you watch the show week after week just to get more frustrated and angry because some line you love from the books was omitted or changed, some character was "butchered", episode was "anticlimactic", or there was "tons of filler" etc. I am not trying to mock you, I am just saying that no matter who is "right", I (and many others apparently) clearly get the better of it.



I know it won't help you, but here's the thing:



Season finale will not be as you hope/dream/wish. They will change a lot. I am pretty sure that something big you all expect will not happen at all, something will be changed. There will be scenes you don't expect at all.



So do yourself a favor. Stop counting that Stannis needs 15 minutes, Dany 5 minutes, Tyrion 15 minutes and so on. By doing this you are ALREADY frustrated because no, ep 410 won't last 75 minutes, it will last 66 minutes. You will not get it all. Accept it before the show airs, and you will not be dissapointed and nervous when they suddenly insert 3 minute scene which "shouldn't" be there. Your expectation is what ruins the show for you, not showrunners work.


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What are you talking about? Jon just shot Tormund in the leg and kicked him in the gut, a man who he was supposed to be aligned with once. Jon is much more outwardly outspoken against his superiors in the show. If anything it will be less surprising on the show than it was in the book. Slynt is also way more of a bitch on the show, and they would never shy from a beheading. If you're going to complain at least try to root it in some reality or logic.

Having him captured and defeated could work. All the free folk want is to get behind the wall and to safety, and while "killing" Mance does work better, it also creates more tension between the free folk and Stannis/NW. It's just way too campy to show them burning Mance on screen and then suddenly have him show up in a scene with Melissandre and say "Haha, you fooled you!" This isn't Scooby Doo.

Actually I hated Tormund being captured. and someone mentioned in a previous post that maybe Tormund will play Rattleshirt's part....

I won't disagree that I complain a lot about the way the show is at North, but hell.... I HATE how they changed the story. I can't see Jon willing to kill Mance by his own accord, I could not stand him being manipulated by Ygritte and the wildings....

it's not that the events didn't turn quite similar... is the way of getting to the end that bothers me

Honestly, I think his arc is better on the show than in the book because he's more believable as a leader, and it's more believable that he will get elected LC.

I won't disagree that it seems more leader-like BUT, it is on ADWD where he "kills the boy".... and it is Sam who elects him into LC.... it is not like it was his decision... with the trope things turn on show we might even see him placing his own name :P

Edited by Yuki_no_JonI

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I wasn't sure where to post this, so I figured I'd share it here. I wrote a ballad for Grenn and the five men he took with him to hold the gate. The fact that he got a very heroic death unlike the majority of characters in the show is what spurred me to write this (and I liked his actor and I'm sad to see him go).

The watchers stood upon the wall,

Stewards and rangers are we;

On that day the wildings came,

They thought they'd be set free.

It could be said they had the strength.

To march upon us in such force.

They lit the biggest fire the North had ever seen;

They'd kill without remorse.

They advanced without relent,

Marching through arrows and more.

The outer gate was being breached,

When Grenn stepped to the fore.

I had to send him down to the tunnels.

I told him to hold the gate.

He took five men; Hyll, Cooper and three more

Hopefully it would not be too late.

The giant was getting through,

It charged like a raging boar.

He roared aloud with thunder,

We stand fast or we'll be no more.

He gleamed like a star

And the sound of his sword was like a raging storm

Proudly the ranger challenges the doom.

Vowing to slay this unkown life form.

They were the sword in the darkness and the watcher on the walls,

the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn.

The horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men.

These six brave men passed on.

He held the gate.

Very nice my good ser!! I take it you are a musician as well? It was brilliant, & the only thing I'd change would be on the last part...

"The horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men."

It flows a tad better if it ends on "...guards the realms" IMO, 'of mens' breaks up the flow a bit, as well as the very last line, I think it sounds good but make it'and the gate was held. But its awesome either way!

Edited by Cold Feet

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I feel geniunely sorry for everybody who rated these ep below 8, or who was somehow strongly dissapointed.

Every week I look forward next ep and every week I get top quality show which I can enjoy (with some small or bigger nitpicks here or there), and sometimes I get something extraordinary like this week. And apparently many of you watch the show week after week just to get more frustrated and angry because some line you love from the books was omitted or changed, some character was "butchered", episode was "anticlimactic", or there was "tons of filler" etc. I am not trying to mock you, I am just saying that no matter who is "right", I (and many others apparently) clearly get the better of it.

I know it won't help you, but here's the thing:

Season finale will not be as you hope/dream/wish. They will change a lot. I am pretty sure that something big you all expect will not happen at all, something will be changed. There will be scenes you don't expect at all.

So do yourself a favor. Stop counting that Stannis needs 15 minutes, Dany 5 minutes, Tyrion 15 minutes and so on. By doing this you are ALREADY frustrated because no, ep 410 won't last 75 minutes, it will last 66 minutes. You will not get it all. Accept it before the show airs, and you will not be dissapointed and nervous when they suddenly insert 3 minute scene which "shouldn't" be there. Your expectation is what ruins the show for you, not showrunners work.

So what you're saying is that viewers should lower their expectations to cautious levels?

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I feel geniunely sorry for everybody who rated these ep below 8, or who was somehow strongly dissapointed.

Every week I look forward next ep and every week I get top quality show which I can enjoy (with some small or bigger nitpicks here or there), and sometimes I get something extraordinary like this week. And apparently many of you watch the show week after week just to get more frustrated and angry because some line you love from the books was omitted or changed, some character was "butchered", episode was "anticlimactic", or there was "tons of filler" etc. I am not trying to mock you, I am just saying that no matter who is "right", I (and many others apparently) clearly get the better of it.

I know it won't help you, but here's the thing:

Season finale will not be as you hope/dream/wish. They will change a lot. I am pretty sure that something big you all expect will not happen at all, something will be changed. There will be scenes you don't expect at all.

So do yourself a favor. Stop counting that Stannis needs 15 minutes, Dany 5 minutes, Tyrion 15 minutes and so on. By doing this you are ALREADY frustrated because no, ep 410 won't last 75 minutes, it will last 66 minutes. You will not get it all. Accept it before the show airs, and you will not be dissapointed and nervous when they suddenly insert 3 minute scene which "shouldn't" be there. Your expectation is what ruins the show for you, not showrunners work.

Bravo!!

If loving the show is wrong, I don't want to be right :D

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Very nice my good ser!! I take it you are a musician as well? It was brilliant, & the only thing I'd change would be on the last part...

"The horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men."

It flows a tad better if it ends on "...guards the realms" IMO, 'of mens' breaks up the flow a bit, as well as the very last line, I think it sounds good but make it'and the gate was held. But its awesome either way!

Thanks for the compliment and critique. I'm not really a musician (I do play guitar and drums occasionally), but this was the first time I've ever really written anything like that (I used to write Haikus, but that's not been for a long time or even in the same vein).

I agree with you in regards to the flow. I think it feels better with your suggestion. Though the "He held the gate" part was an homage to Jon's line. Reading it again, I think I could probably arrange the last line as this:

They were the sword in the darkness and the watcher on the walls,

the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn.

The horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of.

And forever will we remember how these six brave men passed on.

And just end it there.

Edited by Pallantides

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Honestly this episode was a great achievement in television. GoT has raised the bar yet again. People being up in arms because the show didn't change the books and shoehorn Stannis into this episode is sad. This episode was about the Night's Watch, and it was great.


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Honestly this episode was a great achievement in television. GoT has raised the bar yet again. People being up in arms because the show didn't change the books and shoehorn Stannis into this episode is sad. This episode was about the Night's Watch, and it was great.

I agree and I love Stannis. This episode simply kicked ass and was exciting from end to end...well I suppose the sexually frustrated Sam who really could use some of those naughty paintings Loras said Renly had and some time to himself was sort of, meh.

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Really, did you feel that way about the book, that the scene with Stannis was overshadowed because the book also featured Tyrion killing Tywin and the Lady Stoneheart reveal? Get a grip on yourselves.

This this this this this this this this this this

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The lack of Stannis really disturbed me........ that ending was the LAMEST ending to an episode EVER!



"Open the gatezzzz!!!!!1111" *Fade to white* What the fuck was that? :bang:


David and Dan hate Stannis so much they would rather give more scenes to Sam (which weren't in the books) to show their writing skills since they are soooooooooo "on par" with George's writing. The Aemon and Sam scene was so pathetically obvious that it was just there to take some minutes off the episode. My reaction was, "Well atleast we get to learn more about Aemon" but then NOPE. "I'd rather not talk about it bro, we're gonna die anyway". :dunce:


We learned nothing from that scene, we all know Aemon was supposed to be king and Sam wants that Gilly V.



Though I can't deny that the cinematics and combat throughout the episode was totally epic. Ser Alliser was a fooking bad-ass and Grenn *sheds tear* died a fooking hero. (you don't see that much in GoT :eek: )


Edited by Arry Lannister

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Are you serious? The entire point of ending it like they did had nothing to do with Stannis...they ended it that way to make Jon's mission seem absolutely hopeless and to make it look like the NW will fall soon. Showing ANYONE come in and save them would completely undermine that, and they didn't want to do that. It has absolutely nothing to with Stannis.

Amen. In the books, the NW had been defending the wall for days before Stannis finally arrived. Granted, once the back-door pirates had been taken care of, defending the wall wasn't that bad, they were nonetheless exhausted and had done 90% of the work, only to have their victory taken away by the Late Lord Stannis.

Stannis will have his day next week; then we can have an entire season of him trying to get the NW to put him on the Iron Throne and fighting a bogged down land war in Asia The North.

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I feel geniunely sorry for everybody who rated these ep below 8, or who was somehow strongly dissapointed.

Every week I look forward next ep and every week I get top quality show which I can enjoy (with some small or bigger nitpicks here or there), and sometimes I get something extraordinary like this week. And apparently many of you watch the show week after week just to get more frustrated and angry because some line you love from the books was omitted or changed, some character was "butchered", episode was "anticlimactic", or there was "tons of filler" etc. I am not trying to mock you, I am just saying that no matter who is "right", I (and many others apparently) clearly get the better of it.

I know it won't help you, but here's the thing:

Season finale will not be as you hope/dream/wish. They will change a lot. I am pretty sure that something big you all expect will not happen at all, something will be changed. There will be scenes you don't expect at all.

So do yourself a favor. Stop counting that Stannis needs 15 minutes, Dany 5 minutes, Tyrion 15 minutes and so on. By doing this you are ALREADY frustrated because no, ep 410 won't last 75 minutes, it will last 66 minutes. You will not get it all. Accept it before the show airs, and you will not be dissapointed and nervous when they suddenly insert 3 minute scene which "shouldn't" be there. Your expectation is what ruins the show for you, not showrunners work.

There seem to be a lot of assumptions about book readers in that one sentence. First off, complaints don't necessarily mean one finds something 'ruined.' Not all of us anyway. Maybe I'm just complex, but I can enjoy the show for it's own sake, realize I have too many expectations and try to temper them (sometimes successfully and sometimes not), compare it both pro and con to the books, appreciate something great or just fun regardless of who did the actual original writing in book or for screen, and still...........manage to notice when the show runners totally........FOOK IT UP!!!!!

Many complain about the blanket statements of book walkers and how they seem to perceive show only watchers, but honeslty....the hyberbole goes both ways. I suspect many of us are somewhere inbetween. I enjoyed lots about the episode, but I also see the pile up of bad decisions made over the seasons that hurt this visit to the Wall and only the Wall.

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Don't you guys think it kind of sucked how Jonas Flynt(??) and Allister Thorne were there? In the books, I thought that the fact that Jon had the wall really meant a lot, but here he's just listening to these two idiots...

I was taken aback by how Ser Allister Throne and Janos Flynt were depicted in this episode. The two couldn't be more contrasted. In the books Ser Allister is always such a mean jerk, but then on this episode of the show he was a real leader, a true knight, the kind which you would follow straight into battle. On the other hand, I pictured Janos Slynt as a boaster in the books but thought him still a capable man, well as it stands in ep. E09 he couldn't be more of a craven. Even the 10 years old boy found more courage than him. Such a shame really.

They become fast-friend in the books and allies against Jon Snow, but I am no longer convinced it will be the case in the show now..

Edited by sam90

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I feel geniunely sorry for everybody who rated these ep below 8, or who was somehow strongly dissapointed.

Every week I look forward next ep and every week I get top quality show which I can enjoy (with some small or bigger nitpicks here or there), and sometimes I get something extraordinary like this week. And apparently many of you watch the show week after week just to get more frustrated and angry because some line you love from the books was omitted or changed, some character was "butchered", episode was "anticlimactic", or there was "tons of filler" etc. I am not trying to mock you, I am just saying that no matter who is "right", I (and many others apparently) clearly get the better of it.

I know it won't help you, but here's the thing:

Season finale will not be as you hope/dream/wish. They will change a lot. I am pretty sure that something big you all expect will not happen at all, something will be changed. There will be scenes you don't expect at all.

So do yourself a favor. Stop counting that Stannis needs 15 minutes, Dany 5 minutes, Tyrion 15 minutes and so on. By doing this you are ALREADY frustrated because no, ep 410 won't last 75 minutes, it will last 66 minutes. You will not get it all. Accept it before the show airs, and you will not be dissapointed and nervous when they suddenly insert 3 minute scene which "shouldn't" be there. Your expectation is what ruins the show for you, not showrunners work.

I rated it below 8, and you missed me badly. I have absolutely loved this entire season. This was the first episode that disappointed me.

When I first heard the episode was going to be entirely Wall, my expectations were not very high, because the Wall has been the weakest part of the show with the weakest characterization. Unfortunately, in the last 2-3 days before it aired, I got swept away by the episode 9 hype and started having high expectations. That was my mistake. If that hadn't happened, I wouldn't have been disappointed.

I gave it a 7 because, while the action was generally strong except for Mance's numbers being so underwhelming, it had less good dialogue and character interaction than any other episode this season. Not that there was none by any means - e.g., the night's watch chant with the giant charging was very powerful, it was very cool to say Ser Alliser's character get some depth and step up in the clutch instead of staying a douchebag stereotype, and I liked the Sam-Gilly interactions and was overjoyed to see him lay a big fat smacker on her - but all that stuff gets out numbered by the good moments in every other episode.

And while the episode laid good groundwork for the future in making Jon look like an action hero with leadership qualities, I think it missed fire on laying groundwork in a couple of ways: (1) it did a poor job of tying the defense of the Wall into the safety of the rest of the realm, and (2) I don't quite understand why they put so much emphasis on Sam. Yeah, Sam's a popular character, I like him a lot, but by having him actually get the most screen time in by far the biggest Wall episode, they're flirting with making him a bigger character than Jon Snow. That puzzles me.

I thought it was quite good TV, but this season has mostly been great TV from my perspective, and I think Sunday night wasn't that.

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I was kind of taken aback by how Ser Allister Throne and Janos Flynt were depicted in this episode. The two couldn't be more contrasted. In the books Ser Allister is always such a mean jerk, but then on this episode of the show he was a real leader, a knight, the kind which you would follow straight into battle. On the hand, I Janos Slynt as boaster in the book, but as it stand in ep. E09 he couldn't more of a craven. Even the 10 years old boy found more courage than him. Such a shame really.

They become fast-friend in the books, but I am no longer convinced it will be the case in the show now..

Lord Janos was a coward, his meltdown in ADWD leaves preciously little room for doubt (he had a similar one earlier when Tyrion went from "I'm a friendly imp" mode to "OK, and now off to the Wall with you"). He was essentially a courtier, not a warrior.

Ser Alliser? Well, he was an asshole and a lousy dance master, but I don't remember any hints of him being cravenly.

Their perceived friendship does look a little like a "we hate Jon Snow" club.

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